Yahoo Forum Archive

This is an archive of the MEFA Yahoo Group, which was shut down by Yahoo in 2019. The archive can be sorted by month and by topic ID. You can use your browser to search by keyword within the month or topic you have open.

JanFebMarAprMayJunJulAugSepOctNovDec
2004---18210426558925263362316285
20051895610753834744697276194358565136
200623166277611713912756676615979
200720257-297299143318583103
2008561335424014127477516090106
2009283-39194101722722153624
201067-14103138129321316330
20111-172625906132758
201230---812276-----
2013------------
2014---------1-2
2015------------
2016------------
2017------------
2018------------
2019---------1--

Msg# 8609

Re: MEFA Reviews for December 21, 2007 (Part 2) Posted by Bonnie L. Sherrell February 01, 2008 - 16:43:46 Topic ID# 8506
Will be resubscribing under my new email address. Have finally had it
up to the eyeballs with the ISP from Mordor. From now on I can be
contacted at

blslarner@olypen.com

Down with HUGHES.NET!

Msg# 8610

Re: MEFA Reviews for December 21, 2007 (Part 2) Posted by Barbara Rich February 01, 2008 - 19:11:53 Topic ID# 8506
Good for you! I hope your new server is much more efficient!
Barbara
(Dreamflower)

On Feb 1, 2008 4:37 PM, Bonnie L. Sherrell <blslarner@hughes.net> wrote:

> Will be resubscribing under my new email address. Have finally had it
> up to the eyeballs with the ISP from Mordor. From now on I can be
> contacted at
>
> blslarner@olypen.com <blslarner%40olypen.com>
>
> Down with HUGHES.NET <http://hughes.net/>!
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 8611

Re: MEFA Reviews for December 21, 2007 (Part 2) Posted by Kathy February 01, 2008 - 20:46:14 Topic ID# 8506
--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "Bonnie L. Sherrell" <blslarner@...>
wrote:
>
> Will be resubscribing under my new email address. Have finally had it
> up to the eyeballs with the ISP from Mordor. From now on I can be
> contacted at
>
> blslarner@...
>
> Down with HUGHES.NET!

LOL! Have you told Hughes your new name for them?

Kathy

Msg# 8612

The Great Hobbiton Race of 1435 is finally updated Posted by Liza February 08, 2008 - 12:02:40 Topic ID# 8612
Hope it's all right to announce this here, but this story won a 1st in
the "Races: Hobbits: Incomplete", category.

I felt rather guilty about this, as I had intended to finish it before
the end of voting season and have it moved out of the WIP category.

I probably won't let it run a second time, as it's not a vastly long
story and has already had a good crack of the whip.

To those who reviewed it - thank you. And now you may continue reading
(and hopefully) reviewing. It is all but finished, so you will not have
to wait too long for the next few chapters.

It's on SoA, http://www.storiesofarda.com/chapterview.asp?
sid=5405&cid=24328

Liza (Llinos)

Msg# 8613

Re: The Great Hobbiton Race of 1435 is finally updated Posted by Bonnie L. Sherrell February 08, 2008 - 12:42:56 Topic ID# 8612
It's been a fun one to read as it's been posted as well. I look
forward to reading the rest later today--am editing another former MEFA
winner at the moment, and hope some might be willing to give it a
reread someday.

This is the first time I've had an incomplete story nominated; but mine
is sufficiently incomplete it may be quite a time before it's actually
done with (not to mention the other longer stories I'm still working
on). Have two in progress being posted and a third and at rare times a
fourth I work on sporadically.

We do love your work, Llinos.
Bonnie L. Sherrell
Teacher at Large

"Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends." LOTR

"Don't go where I can't follow."

I mourn for this nation.

Msg# 8614

Re: The Great Hobbiton Race of 1435 is finally updated Posted by LizaLlinos@aol.com February 08, 2008 - 12:49:03 Topic ID# 8612
In a message dated 08/02/2008 18:43:21 GMT Standard Time,
blslarner@olypen.com writes:

>>>This is the first time I've had an incomplete story nominated; but mine
is sufficiently incomplete it may be quite a time before it's actually
done with (not to mention the other longer stories I'm still working
on). Have two in progress being posted and a third and at rare times a
fourth I work on sporadically.<<<<


I know the feeling. I feel really bad when RL means I leave stories in
mid-air. I've promised myself that once this one is finished (and it very nearly
is) that I'll finally complete "Recaptured"! Before starting anything else!


>>>We do love your work, Llinos.<<<

Thank you so much Bonnie!


Liza (Llinos)









******************************************************************
http://www.livejournal.com/users/knittedmerry/
http://www.livejournal.com/users/llinos/
*****************************************************************
"Which reminds me: what's become of my ring, Frodo, that you took away?"
"I have lost it, Bilbo dear," said Frodo "I got rid of it, you know."
******************************************************************






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 8615

Re: The Great Hobbiton Race of 1435 is finally updated Posted by heartofoshun@aol.com February 08, 2008 - 12:57:39 Topic ID# 8612
In a message dated 2/8/2008 1:49:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,
LizaLlinos@aol.com writes:

I've promised myself that once this one is finished (and it very nearly
is) that I'll finally complete "Recaptured"is) that I'll finally complete "R



Congratulations--I'm trying to finish a novel that ran as a WIP in 2006. I
got distracted, but have not abandoned it (post a chapter every few months). So
I am really sympathetic to the joy of finishing a long one that has been so
much work. (I'm a slow writer myself.)



**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 8616

Post-mortem concluded Posted by Kathy February 23, 2008 - 15:48:24 Topic ID# 8616
Hi all,

On behalf of the MEFA admin, Marta, who is tied up with RL matters at
present, I wanted to let you know that the post-mortem of the 2007
Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards is now concluded. For the past seven
weeks members of the mefa-discussion Yahoo group have been discussing
various issues related to nominations, categorization, and voting,
and a summary of the decisions reached can be found at the end of
this post.

Please note that the decisions described have already been made, and
are no longer open to discussion until next year's post-mortem.
Everyone is welcome to participate in post-mortem discussions, and at
the end of the awards each year an announcement is made at this group
and at the MEFA LJ community that the post-mortem is beginning, and
inviting all interested parties to join the mefa-discussion Yahoo
group.

For more details on the 2007 post-mortem and the decisions reached,
you can find the beginning the discussion here:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mefa-discussion/messages/916

Please watch this MEFAwards group and the LJ community for
announcements in coming weeks about the opening of MEFA 2008. In the
meantime, please do not send queries to the mefasupport email
address, as Mara isn't available right now to answer questions.
General questions may be posted to this group, or you can email
technical questions to:

techsupport@mefawards.net

Thank you,

Kathy/Inkling

2007 POST-MORTEM SUMMARY

* Anthologies are still eligible, but liaisons will discuss with
authors the disadvantages this type of piece faces. Also, an FAQ on
this topic will be added.

* The list of available source materials will include: TH, LOTR,
Silm, and "Other." "Other" will have a textbox allowing authors to
specify just what source they used.

* WIP stories are now eligible even if they haven't been updated in
the last year.

* If a poem is included as part of a larger work:
--- and poem and story are by different authors, one's competing
won't affect the other.
--- and poem and story are by the same author, and poem competes
first, story can only compete if the poem is removed.
--- and poem and story are by the same author, and story competes
first, poem is ineligible.
NOTE: This policy only applies to works nominated in 2008 or later.

* If technically feasible, reviewers who are nominated authors will
be able to add their own stories to their skip list.

* If an author is unreachable after two weeks (or longer, if the
liaison has further ways to try to reach author), the liaison *may*
withdraw the story and return the nomination to the nominator. This
is at the nominator's discretion if the nominator wants to continue
trying to get in touch with the author, they can leave the story in.

* Nominators will be encouraged to contact their authors.

* This year the MEFA Web site will remind authors to email their
liaison when they submit a completed nomination form. In addition,
liaisons and all MEFA volunteers will have email addresses
with "mefawards.net" as the domain. All participants should set up
their email to "trust" email coming from mefawards.net addresses, so
that it's not treated as spam.

* There will be a new "Races: Other Beings" main category.

* There will be a list of FAQs most pertinent to new members, so new
authors, nominators and reviewers will have a shorter list of FAQs to
read to get acclimated to the awards. An even shorter guide, "MEFA
for Dummies," is also in the works.

* We'll recruit a "New Member Manager" to welcome new members to the
awards.

* There will be a new "Genres: Longer Works" category. This is
suggested for works over 40,000 words; stories shorter than this can
elect to compete here, and stories over this limit can elect not to
compete here.

* We'll try our best to keep true drabbles separate from FLF series
and Other FLFs. They'll be kept separate if doing so won't require
pieces to go into their third-choice category, but we'll combine
drabbles with longer FLFs before resorting to the third-choice
category.

* The Times categories will be divided into:
--- Times: First Age and Prior
--- Times: Second and Early Third Age (through 2850 TA/1250 SR)
--- Times: Pre-Ring War (2851-3017 TA/1251-1417 SR)
--- Times: Ring War (3018-3019 TA/1418-1419 SR)
--- Times: Post-Ring War and Beyond (3020 TA/1420 SR and beyond)
--- Times: Historical and Modern Times
--- Times: Multi-Age

* Reviewers will be able to mark that a review contains spoilers by
checking a box on the review form, and these reviews will be marked
as containing a spoiler. If other members see a review that needs to
be marked, they can request that the admins look at it and mark it
(if appropriate).

* There will be no default status when saving reviews; the reviewer
must choose a status before saving. The status order will remain the
same on the review form, but a warning will be added:
--- Draft *** WILL NOT BE COUNTED ***
--- Hidden
--- Final
Also, this message will appear above the status choices: "Select a
status for your review. Draft reviews are never counted when
determining a story's point score, and are never visible to other
members; final reviews cannot be edited after [date]. See [link]this
FAQ[/link] for more information." Some time before the end of the
awards, we'll remind reviewers with draft reviews that those reviews
will not be counted.

* We debated automatically emailing authors when they received a
review. This was decided to be technically infeasible, and we'll try
to draw authors' attentions to reviews they've received in other
ways. (One possibility: emailing authors once a month or so if
they've received a new review in that period.)

* Beside every review on the MEFA site will be a link enabling
authors to reply to that review, if they choose. This link will open
up a pop-up window instructing authors to compose their reply as an
email and to send it to mefasupport@..., with a subject line
like "Reply to [reviewer]'s review of [story title]." After checking
that it's not spam, the MEFA admin will forward it on to the reviewer.

* If technically feasible, we will display a randomly selected story
on the page reviewers see when they first log in.

* If technically feasible, we will display the first [x] characters
of a randomly selected review on the page reviewers see when they
first log in.

* Reading and Voting seasons will be combined, so final reviews will
be visible as soon as categories are finalized.

* A list of terms and acronyms commonly used in the MEFAs has been
compiled and will be added to the FAQs.

* An automatic log out warning will be added to the MEFA system.

Msg# 8617

Re: Post-mortem concluded Posted by Agape 4Rivendell February 23, 2008 - 17:31:22 Topic ID# 8616
Just wanted to take a moment to thank everyone involved. Monumental
endeavor...

Agape


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 8618

Re: Post-mortem concluded Posted by Barbara Rich February 23, 2008 - 17:34:31 Topic ID# 8616
Wow! This year's PM accomplished a *LOT*! I had no idea how many topics we
covered until I saw it all listed like that!
Dreamflower

On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 3:48 PM, Kathy <inkling-tcbs@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> On behalf of the MEFA admin, Marta, who is tied up with RL matters at
> present, I wanted to let you know that the post-mortem of the 2007
> Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards is now concluded. For the past seven
> weeks members of the mefa-discussion Yahoo group have been discussing
> various issues related to nominations, categorization, and voting,
> and a summary of the decisions reached can be found at the end of
> this post.
>
> Please note that the decisions described have already been made, and
> are no longer open to discussion until next year's post-mortem.
> Everyone is welcome to participate in post-mortem discussions, and at
> the end of the awards each year an announcement is made at this group
> and at the MEFA LJ community that the post-mortem is beginning, and
> inviting all interested parties to join the mefa-discussion Yahoo
> group.
>
> For more details on the 2007 post-mortem and the decisions reached,
> you can find the beginning the discussion here:
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mefa-discussion/messages/916
>
> Please watch this MEFAwards group and the LJ community for
> announcements in coming weeks about the opening of MEFA 2008. In the
> meantime, please do not send queries to the mefasupport email
> address, as Mara isn't available right now to answer questions.
> General questions may be posted to this group, or you can email
> technical questions to:
>
> techsupport@mefawards.net <techsupport%40mefawards.net>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Kathy/Inkling
>
> 2007 POST-MORTEM SUMMARY
>
> * Anthologies are still eligible, but liaisons will discuss with
> authors the disadvantages this type of piece faces. Also, an FAQ on
> this topic will be added.
>
> * The list of available source materials will include: TH, LOTR,
> Silm, and "Other." "Other" will have a textbox allowing authors to
> specify just what source they used.
>
> * WIP stories are now eligible even if they haven't been updated in
> the last year.
>
> * If a poem is included as part of a larger work:
> --- and poem and story are by different authors, one's competing
> won't affect the other.
> --- and poem and story are by the same author, and poem competes
> first, story can only compete if the poem is removed.
> --- and poem and story are by the same author, and story competes
> first, poem is ineligible.
> NOTE: This policy only applies to works nominated in 2008 or later.
>
> * If technically feasible, reviewers who are nominated authors will
> be able to add their own stories to their skip list.
>
> * If an author is unreachable after two weeks (or longer, if the
> liaison has further ways to try to reach author), the liaison *may*
> withdraw the story and return the nomination to the nominator. This
> is at the nominator's discretion if the nominator wants to continue
> trying to get in touch with the author, they can leave the story in.
>
> * Nominators will be encouraged to contact their authors.
>
> * This year the MEFA Web site will remind authors to email their
> liaison when they submit a completed nomination form. In addition,
> liaisons and all MEFA volunteers will have email addresses
> with "mefawards.net" as the domain. All participants should set up
> their email to "trust" email coming from mefawards.net addresses, so
> that it's not treated as spam.
>
> * There will be a new "Races: Other Beings" main category.
>
> * There will be a list of FAQs most pertinent to new members, so new
> authors, nominators and reviewers will have a shorter list of FAQs to
> read to get acclimated to the awards. An even shorter guide, "MEFA
> for Dummies," is also in the works.
>
> * We'll recruit a "New Member Manager" to welcome new members to the
> awards.
>
> * There will be a new "Genres: Longer Works" category. This is
> suggested for works over 40,000 words; stories shorter than this can
> elect to compete here, and stories over this limit can elect not to
> compete here.
>
> * We'll try our best to keep true drabbles separate from FLF series
> and Other FLFs. They'll be kept separate if doing so won't require
> pieces to go into their third-choice category, but we'll combine
> drabbles with longer FLFs before resorting to the third-choice
> category.
>
> * The Times categories will be divided into:
> --- Times: First Age and Prior
> --- Times: Second and Early Third Age (through 2850 TA/1250 SR)
> --- Times: Pre-Ring War (2851-3017 TA/1251-1417 SR)
> --- Times: Ring War (3018-3019 TA/1418-1419 SR)
> --- Times: Post-Ring War and Beyond (3020 TA/1420 SR and beyond)
> --- Times: Historical and Modern Times
> --- Times: Multi-Age
>
> * Reviewers will be able to mark that a review contains spoilers by
> checking a box on the review form, and these reviews will be marked
> as containing a spoiler. If other members see a review that needs to
> be marked, they can request that the admins look at it and mark it
> (if appropriate).
>
> * There will be no default status when saving reviews; the reviewer
> must choose a status before saving. The status order will remain the
> same on the review form, but a warning will be added:
> --- Draft *** WILL NOT BE COUNTED ***
> --- Hidden
> --- Final
> Also, this message will appear above the status choices: "Select a
> status for your review. Draft reviews are never counted when
> determining a story's point score, and are never visible to other
> members; final reviews cannot be edited after [date]. See [link]this
> FAQ[/link] for more information." Some time before the end of the
> awards, we'll remind reviewers with draft reviews that those reviews
> will not be counted.
>
> * We debated automatically emailing authors when they received a
> review. This was decided to be technically infeasible, and we'll try
> to draw authors' attentions to reviews they've received in other
> ways. (One possibility: emailing authors once a month or so if
> they've received a new review in that period.)
>
> * Beside every review on the MEFA site will be a link enabling
> authors to reply to that review, if they choose. This link will open
> up a pop-up window instructing authors to compose their reply as an
> email and to send it to mefasupport@..., with a subject line
> like "Reply to [reviewer]'s review of [story title]." After checking
> that it's not spam, the MEFA admin will forward it on to the reviewer.
>
> * If technically feasible, we will display a randomly selected story
> on the page reviewers see when they first log in.
>
> * If technically feasible, we will display the first [x] characters
> of a randomly selected review on the page reviewers see when they
> first log in.
>
> * Reading and Voting seasons will be combined, so final reviews will
> be visible as soon as categories are finalized.
>
> * A list of terms and acronyms commonly used in the MEFAs has been
> compiled and will be added to the FAQs.
>
> * An automatic log out warning will be added to the MEFA system.
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 8619

Re: Post-mortem concluded Posted by Bonnie L. Sherrell February 24, 2008 - 12:22:51 Topic ID# 8616
And thank you all!
Bonnie L. Sherrell
Teacher at Large

"Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends." LOTR

"Don't go where I can't follow."

I mourn for this nation.

Msg# 8620

Re: Post-mortem concluded Posted by KAT702H@aol.com February 25, 2008 - 9:16:02 Topic ID# 8616
Thanks to all involved for taking so much of your time to do this. You did
an awesome job. I just wish I had the time to read all the stories, but
unfortunately I can't. I still have tons of reading from the previous year. I
guess I'll just have to pick and choose which I hate to do.

TariElfLady

In a message dated 2/23/2008 4:48:39 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
inkling-tcbs@sbcglobal.net writes:




Hi all,

On behalf of the MEFA admin, Marta, who is tied up with RL matters at
present, I wanted to let you know that the post-mortem of the 2007
Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards is now concluded. For the past seven
weeks members of the mefa-discussion Yahoo group have been discussing
various issues related to nominations, categorization, and voting,
and a summary of the decisions reached can be found at the end of
this post.

Please note that the decisions described have already been made, and
are no longer open to discussion until next year's post-mortem.
Everyone is welcome to participate in post-mortem discussions, and at
the end of the awards each year an announcement is made at this group
and at the MEFA LJ community that the post-mortem is beginning, and
inviting all interested parties to join the mefa-discussion Yahoo
group.

For more details on the 2007 post-mortem and the decisions reached,
you can find the beginning the discussion here:

_http://groups.http://grohttp://grouhttp://grouhttp://grhtt_
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mefa-discussion/messages/916)

Please watch this MEFAwards group and the LJ community for
announcements in coming weeks about the opening of MEFA 2008. In the
meantime, please do not send queries to the mefasupport email
address, as Mara isn't available right now to answer questions.
General questions may be posted to this group, or you can email
technical questions to:

_techsupport@techsupportec_ (mailto:techsupport@mefawards.net)

Thank you,

Kathy/Inkling

2007 POST-MORTEM SUMMARY

* Anthologies are still eligible, but liaisons will discuss with
authors the disadvantages this type of piece faces. Also, an FAQ on
this topic will be added.

* The list of available source materials will include: TH, LOTR,
Silm, and "Other." "Other" will have a textbox allowing authors to
specify just what source they used.

* WIP stories are now eligible even if they haven't been updated in
the last year.

* If a poem is included as part of a larger work:
--- and poem and story are by different authors, one's competing
won't affect the other.
--- and poem and story are by the same author, and poem competes
first, story can only compete if the poem is removed.
--- and poem and story are by the same author, and story competes
first, poem is ineligible.
NOTE: This policy only applies to works nominated in 2008 or later.

* If technically feasible, reviewers who are nominated authors will
be able to add their own stories to their skip list.

* If an author is unreachable after two weeks (or longer, if the
liaison has further ways to try to reach author), the liaison *may*
withdraw the story and return the nomination to the nominator. This
is at the nominator's discretion  if the nominator wants to continue
trying to get in touch with the author, they can leave the story in.

* Nominators will be encouraged to contact their authors.

* This year the MEFA Web site will remind authors to email their
liaison when they submit a completed nomination form. In addition,
liaisons and all MEFA volunteers will have email addresses
with "mefawards.net" as the domain. All participants should set up
their email to "trust" email coming from mefawards.net addresses, so
that it's not treated as spam.

* There will be a new "Races: Other Beings" main category.

* There will be a list of FAQs most pertinent to new members, so new
authors, nominators and reviewers will have a shorter list of FAQs to
read to get acclimated to the awards. An even shorter guide, "MEFA
for Dummies," is also in the works.

* We'll recruit a "New Member Manager" to welcome new members to the
awards.

* There will be a new "Genres: Longer Works" category. This is
suggested for works over 40,000 words; stories shorter than this can
elect to compete here, and stories over this limit can elect not to
compete here.

* We'll try our best to keep true drabbles separate from FLF series
and Other FLFs. They'll be kept separate if doing so won't require
pieces to go into their third-choice category, but we'll combine
drabbles with longer FLFs before resorting to the third-choice
category.

* The Times categories will be divided into:
--- Times: First Age and Prior
--- Times: Second and Early Third Age (through 2850 TA/1250 SR)
--- Times: Pre-Ring War (2851-3017 TA/1251-1417 SR)
--- Times: Ring War (3018-3019 TA/1418-1419 SR)
--- Times: Post-Ring War and Beyond (3020 TA/1420 SR and beyond)
--- Times: Historical and Modern Times
--- Times: Multi-Age

* Reviewers will be able to mark that a review contains spoilers by
checking a box on the review form, and these reviews will be marked
as containing a spoiler. If other members see a review that needs to
be marked, they can request that the admins look at it and mark it
(if appropriate)(

* There will be no default status when saving reviews; the reviewer
must choose a status before saving. The status order will remain the
same on the review form, but a warning will be added:
--- Draft *** WILL NOT BE COUNTED ***
--- Hidden
--- Final
Also, this message will appear above the status choices: "Select a
status for your review. Draft reviews are never counted when
determining a story's point score, and are never visible to other
members; final reviews cannot be edited after [date]. See [link]this
FAQ[/link] for more information.FAQ[/link] for more information.<WBR>"
awards, we'll remind reviewers with draft reviews that those reviews
will not be counted.

* We debated automatically emailing authors when they received a
review. This was decided to be technically infeasible, and we'll try
to draw authors' attentions to reviews they've received in other
ways. (One possibility: emailing authors once a month or so if
they've received a new review in that period.)

* Beside every review on the MEFA site will be a link enabling
authors to reply to that review, if they choose. This link will open
up a pop-up window instructing authors to compose their reply as an
email and to send it to mefasupport@email and to send it to
like "Reply to [reviewer]'s review of [story title]." After checking
that it's not spam, the MEFA admin will forward it on to the reviewer.

* If technically feasible, we will display a randomly selected story
on the page reviewers see when they first log in.

* If technically feasible, we will display the first [x] characters
of a randomly selected review on the page reviewers see when they
first log in.

* Reading and Voting seasons will be combined, so final reviews will
be visible as soon as categories are finalized.

* A list of terms and acronyms commonly used in the MEFAs has been
compiled and will be added to the FAQs.

* An automatic log out warning will be added to the MEFA system.









**************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living.
(http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/
2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 8621

Re: Post-mortem concluded Posted by Cathleen February 28, 2008 - 17:59:53 Topic ID# 8616
I'd like to add my thank you to the MEFA staff - you all do an
incredible job with the awards and help make the whole process fun for
all of us!!
Cathleen


--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "Kathy" <inkling-tcbs@...> wrote: