Yahoo Forum Archive

Hey guys,

I have just posted a poll over at our LJ about banners. This looks at
how the banners will be created - whether we'll keep using our current
system or use one that has been suggested.

You can read all about the both systems and vote for your preference at

http://community.livejournal.com/mefas/113827.html

In the interests of including award participants who aren't members of
this group I've posted the poll at LJ. But don't worry if you don't have
an account there. Anyone can make anonymous comments there, so if you
don't have an account, just comment to the entry with your answers.
Please include your name in your comments so we know who's voting.

The poll closes in three days (on Saturday). Please vote before then.

Oh, and feel free to spread the word around! If your group has people
interested in the MEFAs, feel free to forward this email to them.

Marta

Just a quick reminder: if you haven't already, please vote in our poll
on how banners for next year's winners should be handled. The poll
closes tomorrow. You can vote at

http://community.livejournal.com/mefas/113827.html

Marta

Hey guys,

I've been working over the last several months with some of you (particularly Tanaqui, Aranel Took, Inkling, Radbooks, and elliska –
THANK YOU!) to figure out how we can improve the awards for the 2009
year. We are all looking forward to the upcoming awards and I will have some specific dates of when we expect to start soon. There are a few changes that need to be made to the website, but once they are, off we go again. :-)

[Promoters: You may if you like forward this on to your group. I leave it up to your discretion.]

When the 2009 awards do start, I think you'll notice some nice improvements to areas like the FAQs (we're adding a few and hopefully making them all more useful). There are also some changes to award policy that I want to discuss with you all.

Many of these changes affect authors. If you are nominating a story that looks like it would be affected, please mention these changes to the author so they can make the decision that best represents their story.



FICLETS AND DRABBLES

In previous years we have let drabbles and other fixed-length ficlets
compete against each other in special subcategories so that they didn't run against short stories, let alone novels – a definite Good Thing as far as it goes. But because there weren't always enough of the longer fixed-legnth ficlets, those pieces often ended up going into their third-choice categories, and some authors have noted that they'd rather they run against full-length stories in their first- or second-choice categories.

So next year we will be trying something slightly different. Drabbles (== pieces exactly 100 words long) will still compete in special subcategories within all the main subcategories. Drabble authors should select three main category choices just like they did in the past, and don't need to do anything new.

Longer ficlets (== for 2009, a piece up to 1,000 words but not also a drabble) *may* compete against other ficlets but may also compete against full-length story. It's up to the author. If the author wants to compete against other ficlets they should select the new "Genres: Ficlets" main category and two others of their choice. This will work like the "Genres: Longer Works" category in that you are guaranteed to compete against other ficlets but not necessarily about the same type of character or time period.

As with all categories, your order choice matters. If you want to compete against other ficlets you should select "Genres: Ficlets" as
your first-choice category.

Series will mostly be handled along the same lines. Short drabble series (up to ~5 drabbles) will compete in the Drabble subcategories. Longer drabble series and series of longer ficlets may compete in the "Genres: Ficlets" main category if they select that category. These longer series can also compete against full-length stories in any of the main categories if the author prefers.

Just to be clear, series may be longer than the 1,000 word limit and still compete in Ficlets, if each part is less than 1,000 words. Of course if you have a ficlet series of thirty triple drabbles (9k words) your liaison may raise an eyebrow and suggest you move it to a category where it could compete on more equal footing. We'll handle those rare instances on a case-by-case basis.

*****************************

REVIEWING GOALS

By popular request, we're going to extend the date you have to set your reviewing goal (if you choose to do this). You'll have until one month after categorization is finalized.

*****************************

OTHER NEW MAIN CATEGORIES

We decided to offer a few new categories this year in addition to the
Ficlets one mentioned above.

Under Genres, you will now be able to select "Character Studies." This
is good for pieces that are more about exploring a certain character
rather than being drama, humor, etc. (The characters don't need to be
canonical; character studies of original characters are allowed as well.)

The Times subcategory will be divided into the following categories:

==> Times: First Age and Prior
==> Times: Second and Early Third Age (through 2850 T.A./1250 S.R.)
==> Times: Pre-Ring War (2851-3017 T.A./1251-1418 S.R.)
==> Times: Ring War (3018-3019 T.A./1418-1419 S.R.)
==> Times: Post-Ring War and Beyond (after 3019 T.A./1419 S.R.)
==> Times: Modern Times
==> Times: Multi-Age

In general, Pre-Ring War will cover the events of _The Hobbit_ and the childhoods and early adventures of Lord of the Rings characters; Ring War will cover the Quest and the Ring War itself; and post-Ring War will include events that happened after the Ring War, whether in the Third or Fourth Age.

As always, the dates are suggestions more than hard rules; if you have a story that is technically set in 3017 that you feel fits better in Ring War than the Pre-Ring War period, you are free to select that. Similarly, you may feel a story set in the tail end of the First Age fits better with Second and Early Third Age; again, that's your decision. You are really selecting what kind of story you would want to run against rather than giving an absolute description of your own story. (If you do decide to do this, you might want to note it in the summary, just so your readers aren't surprised.)

*****************************

BANNERS

We have devised a system that reflects both of the options in the recent poll. Authors will have some banners made available to them that don't require customization (so they can be used right away), but banner makers will also be able to make banners available to all categories (and winning authors may customize these banners themselves or request that one of our volunteers help them).

I'll discuss more details about this with the banner artists after we
get through categorizing, and authors will be informed at the end of the awards. It's hardly a secret, but it's a little technical to describe in detail to people who won't be making or using banners.

Looking forward to seeing what you guys will nominate!

Yours,

Marta (MEFA Admin.)

I would not want a 5-10,000-word story of mine to compete against a
500-word ficlet. I mean I am one person and I know people love ficlets. But one
can read 20 500-word stories in the length of time it takes to read one
10,000 word story. It is extremely prejudicial to those who write longer
stories. Devalues the time one spends on longer stories and makes it essentially a
ficlet competition.

I know I'm a minority. Just stating it for the record.

Oshun
**************Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and
Desktops!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220631276x1201390200/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.double
click.net%2Fclk%3B214101948%3B35952020%3Bv)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I agree with Oshun to a degree... one of the problems is - people
procrastinate - and those who decide to review a certain number, when push
comes to shove and the end of reviewing approaches, are more likely (human
frailty) to read 500-word ficlets to 'hit' their number - than plow through
the same number of longer stories.

I don't fault anyone - it's just human nature... And I think we've all seen
that a LOT of people do not review till the end and then the 'race is on' -
so to speak. So the longer tale is, in essence, penalized.

Just MHO.

Blessings for all your work!
Agape

On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 10:30 PM, <heartofoshun@aol.com> wrote:

>
>
> I would not want a 5-10,000-word story of mine to compete against a
> 500-word ficlet. I mean I am one person and I know people love ficlets. But
> one
> can read 20 500-word stories in the length of time it takes to read one
> 10,000 word story. It is extremely prejudicial to those who write longer
> stories. Devalues the time one spends on longer stories and makes it
> essentially a
> ficlet competition.
>
> I know I'm a minority. Just stating it for the record.
>
> Oshun
> **************Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and
> Desktops!(
> http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220631276x1201390200/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.double
> click.net%2Fclk%3B214101948%3B35952020%3Bv)
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



--
Life's been good to me so far!!! Praise God!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I agree with Oshun on this one. It isn't fair to ask someone who has taken the time to create a 10,000+ word story to compete against a ficlet or a drabble...they just shouldn't be in the same category at all. Perhaps a way to solve the problem is to ask reviewers to commit to reading a certain number of longer stories, or a new section/category for "Avid Readers" where the longer stories could be housed. Perhaps something along the lines of what they do with Oscar nominations and voting, where you're required to see all the movies before you can vote. Where you have to read a minimum number of longer stories before you can vote on longer stories. Otherwise, it really does become a ficlet competition.






"If lines must be crossed, if alliances must be broken...do it Fast...do it Furious"






To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
From: heartofoshun@aol.com
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 22:30:00 -0400
Subject: Re: [MEFAwards] IMPORTANT: Changes for 2009 Awards







I would not want a 5-10,000-word story of mine to compete against a
500-word ficlet. I mean I am one person and I know people love ficlets. But one
can read 20 500-word stories in the length of time it takes to read one
10,000 word story. It is extremely prejudicial to those who write longer
stories. Devalues the time one spends on longer stories and makes it essentially a
ficlet competition.

I know I'm a minority. Just stating it for the record.

Oshun
**************Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and
Desktops!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220631276x1201390200/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.double
click.net%2Fclk%3B214101948%3B35952020%3Bv)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









_________________________________________________________________
Windows Liveý SkyDriveý: Get 25 GB of free online storage.
http://windowslive.com/online/skydrive?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_skydrive_042009

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi there! Oshun said:

> I would not want a 5-10,000-word story of mine to compete against
> a 500-word ficlet. I mean I am one person and I know people love
> ficlets. But one can read 20 500-word stories in the length of time
> it takes to read one 10,000 word story. It is extremely prejudicial to
> those who write longer stories. Devalues the time one spends on
> longer stories and makes it essentially a ficlet competition.

I would have to agree as well. Ficlets should compete against ficlets, and
full-length stories should compete against full-length stories. They are
two entirely different styles of fiction.

Perhaps there should be some catch-all ficlet category that kicks in and
picks up all the ficlets whose subcategories simply don't have enough
entries?

Cuio vae.

Aeärwen

Hiya Oshun and Agape,

I find the points you brought up very interesting because (as a mostly
ficlet author) my thoughts were very different. Readers who are more
used to the ficlet form will often be more used to ficlets being just a
glimpse, a beat of the larger canonical history if you will. So
personally I would much prefer my ficlet to be judged against other
ficlets! :-) I would never dream of setting a triple-drabble free
against a novella, it would be a bit like a hobbit-ent wrestling match.
But I do think this is a choice the author should be allowed to make.

(Remember, authors of really long stories are given the same choice: to
compete against other novels in Genres: Longer Works, or to compete on a
more thematic level.)

I also think the new system will actually fight against some of what
you're talking about. If you remember under the old system fixed-length
ficlets could be up to 500 words and had to be written to a round
number. So if I wrote a vignette that was 379 words (not written to be a
drabble or drabble variation) it would technically go in with the
full-length story. Ditto if I wrote a piece that was 600 words long -
just past the 500-word cutoff. We've made the ficlet category much more
inclusive than FLFs used to be.

I'm not going to promise you every author will feel the same way as I
will. I'm not every author, so I have no way of knowing. And of course
if this idea turns out to Just Not Work we can look at changing it back
for the 2010 awards. The MEFAs tend to be an evolution. We are told of a
problem, discuss how to best fix it, and then re-evaluate down the road
to see if the problem is really solved or if there's a better way to do
things.

All of that said - I do think the new system will actually work better
in favor of medium-length stories b/c of the two situations I mentioned
above (stories just over 500 words, and stories under 500 words but not
a certain fixed-length).

Marta

P.S. And thanks for your opinions. It's good to know where people stand
on these things, though I did mean this as an announcement more than a
discussion. :-))

Agape 4Rivendell wrote:

>
>
>
> I agree with Oshun to a degree... one of the problems is - people
> procrastinate - and those who decide to review a certain number, when push
> comes to shove and the end of reviewing approaches, are more likely (human
> frailty) to read 500-word ficlets to 'hit' their number - than plow through
> the same number of longer stories.
>
> I don't fault anyone - it's just human nature... And I think we've all seen
> that a LOT of people do not review till the end and then the 'race is on' -
> so to speak. So the longer tale is, in essence, penalized.
>
> Just MHO.
>
> Blessings for all your work!
> Agape
>
> On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 10:30 PM, <heartofoshun@aol.com
> <mailto:heartofoshun%40aol.com>> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I would not want a 5-10,000-word story of mine to compete against a
> > 500-word ficlet. I mean I am one person and I know people love
> ficlets. But
> > one
> > can read 20 500-word stories in the length of time it takes to read one
> > 10,000 word story. It is extremely prejudicial to those who write longer
> > stories. Devalues the time one spends on longer stories and makes it
> > essentially a
> > ficlet competition.
> >
> > I know I'm a minority. Just stating it for the record.
> >
> > Oshun

Wow - you all have been busy!

I can't believe how fast the time has gone by, but I'm certainly looking
forward to the MEFAs this year.

Sulriel

On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 9:23 PM, aure_enteluva <marta.fandom@gmail.com>wrote:

> Hey guys,
>
> I've been working over the last several months with some of you
> (particularly Tanaqui, Aranel Took, Inkling, Radbooks, and elliska ý
> THANK YOU!) to figure out how we can improve the awards for the 2009
> year. We are all looking forward to the upcoming awards and I will have
> some specific dates of when we expect to start soon. There are a few changes
> that need to be made to the website, but once they are, off we go again. :-)
>
> [Promoters: You may if you like forward this on to your group. I leave it
> up to your discretion.]
>
> When the 2009 awards do start, I think you'll notice some nice improvements
> to areas like the FAQs (we're adding a few and hopefully making them all
> more useful). There are also some changes to award policy that I want to
> discuss with you all.
>
> Many of these changes affect authors. If you are nominating a story that
> looks like it would be affected, please mention these changes to the author
> so they can make the decision that best represents their story.
>
>
>
> FICLETS AND DRABBLES
>
> In previous years we have let drabbles and other fixed-length ficlets
> compete against each other in special subcategories so that they didn't run
> against short stories, let alone novels ý a definite Good Thing as far as it
> goes. But because there weren't always enough of the longer fixed-legnth
> ficlets, those pieces often ended up going into their third-choice
> categories, and some authors have noted that they'd rather they run against
> full-length stories in their first- or second-choice categories.
>
> So next year we will be trying something slightly different. Drabbles (==
> pieces exactly 100 words long) will still compete in special subcategories
> within all the main subcategories. Drabble authors should select three main
> category choices just like they did in the past, and don't need to do
> anything new.
>
> Longer ficlets (== for 2009, a piece up to 1,000 words but not also a
> drabble) *may* compete against other ficlets but may also compete against
> full-length story. It's up to the author. If the author wants to compete
> against other ficlets they should select the new "Genres: Ficlets" main
> category and two others of their choice. This will work like the "Genres:
> Longer Works" category in that you are guaranteed to compete against other
> ficlets but not necessarily about the same type of character or time period.
>
> As with all categories, your order choice matters. If you want to compete
> against other ficlets you should select "Genres: Ficlets" as
> your first-choice category.
>
> Series will mostly be handled along the same lines. Short drabble series
> (up to ~5 drabbles) will compete in the Drabble subcategories. Longer
> drabble series and series of longer ficlets may compete in the "Genres:
> Ficlets" main category if they select that category. These longer series can
> also compete against full-length stories in any of the main categories if
> the author prefers.
>
> Just to be clear, series may be longer than the 1,000 word limit and still
> compete in Ficlets, if each part is less than 1,000 words. Of course if you
> have a ficlet series of thirty triple drabbles (9k words) your liaison may
> raise an eyebrow and suggest you move it to a category where it could
> compete on more equal footing. We'll handle those rare instances on a
> case-by-case basis.
>
> *****************************
>
> REVIEWING GOALS
>
> By popular request, we're going to extend the date you have to set your
> reviewing goal (if you choose to do this). You'll have until one month after
> categorization is finalized.
>
> *****************************
>
> OTHER NEW MAIN CATEGORIES
>
> We decided to offer a few new categories this year in addition to the
> Ficlets one mentioned above.
>
> Under Genres, you will now be able to select "Character Studies." This
> is good for pieces that are more about exploring a certain character
> rather than being drama, humor, etc. (The characters don't need to be
> canonical; character studies of original characters are allowed as well.)
>
> The Times subcategory will be divided into the following categories:
>
> ==> Times: First Age and Prior
> ==> Times: Second and Early Third Age (through 2850 T.A./1250 S.R.)
> ==> Times: Pre-Ring War (2851-3017 T.A./1251-1418 S.R.)
> ==> Times: Ring War (3018-3019 T.A./1418-1419 S.R.)
> ==> Times: Post-Ring War and Beyond (after 3019 T.A./1419 S.R.)
> ==> Times: Modern Times
> ==> Times: Multi-Age
>
> In general, Pre-Ring War will cover the events of _The Hobbit_ and the
> childhoods and early adventures of Lord of the Rings characters; Ring War
> will cover the Quest and the Ring War itself; and post-Ring War will include
> events that happened after the Ring War, whether in the Third or Fourth Age.
>
> As always, the dates are suggestions more than hard rules; if you have a
> story that is technically set in 3017 that you feel fits better in Ring War
> than the Pre-Ring War period, you are free to select that. Similarly, you
> may feel a story set in the tail end of the First Age fits better with
> Second and Early Third Age; again, that's your decision. You are really
> selecting what kind of story you would want to run against rather than
> giving an absolute description of your own story. (If you do decide to do
> this, you might want to note it in the summary, just so your readers aren't
> surprised.)
>
> *****************************
>
> BANNERS
>
> We have devised a system that reflects both of the options in the recent
> poll. Authors will have some banners made available to them that don't
> require customization (so they can be used right away), but banner makers
> will also be able to make banners available to all categories (and winning
> authors may customize these banners themselves or request that one of our
> volunteers help them).
>
> I'll discuss more details about this with the banner artists after we
> get through categorizing, and authors will be informed at the end of the
> awards. It's hardly a secret, but it's a little technical to describe in
> detail to people who won't be making or using banners.
>
> Looking forward to seeing what you guys will nominate!
>
> Yours,
>
> Marta (MEFA Admin.)
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The fact is that ficlets are more read in this competition than longer
stories. That is a fact. I don't have the figures and I am not going to compile
them, but it seems apparent to me from just glancing for categories in the
past where there were ficlets of random length thrown into the general
pool. To increase the number of short-shorts in the general pool will
definitely sway the awards in the direction of being a short-form contest.

Do you really believe that longer stories get more reads? I don't think
they do.

Apparently, this was not a call for discussion anyway though. Sorry to even
raise this. But it got my heart beating faster. I tend to consider that
the MEFAs are on some level an affirmation that my efforts are worth
something. This would make me reconsider that.

**************Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and
Desktops!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1220631276x1201390200/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.double
click.net%2Fclk%3B214101948%3B35952020%3Bv)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hey everyone,

I thank everyone for letting me know your concerns. I and the other
volunteers can only make decisions based on the information we have
about what issues are important to everyone. The decisions I announced
earlier tonight are decided ones -- we (the other volunteers listed and
myself) have already spent a lot of time debating them -- but we will of
course be open to changing things again for future years if the new
system does not work. That is why it is so important to know what
everyone thinks.

There seems to be some confusion and concern about the new Ficlets
category so I wanted to explain a few things.

First, how the new category will work:

True drabbles (exactly 100 words) and series of the same will still
compete in separated-off subcategories. These will not compete against
anything other than drabbles and drabble series.

Longer ficlets (still less than 1,000 words) may choose to compete
against other ficlets and series of ficlets. In practice authors of
these pieces will probably be *encouraged* to choose this category,
especially this first year as we get people used to the new system. This
will be encouragement not requirement so of course some authors may
decide differently. But as I said I expect to see more short-form
stories (drabble variations, vignettes of odd length, etc.) move *into*
the Ficlet category, rather than running to the general categories.

***************

Now, as for why we made this change. It wasn't some sort of aim to slant
this competition toward ficlets. There were a few factors that went into
this decision.

1. We wanted to close up "loop holes" - those just-over-500-word stories
and the odd-length vignettes I was talking about.

2. We wanted to give authors as much control over the process as
possible. If an author did feel strongly enough that they wanted to go
into Hobbits even after being told this meant they might go up against a
much longer story, we wanted to make this more likely to happen.

3. We wanted to simplify things so beginning authors would select the
right categories. "Fixed-length ficlet" is not a well-understood term,
and new authors being confused by it has created an administrative
headache pretty much every year we've used it.

The Ficlet main category seems like the best solution to these issues. I
still am convinced it is. The thing that will most easily change my mind
is seeing that, in practice, it creates more problems than it solves.
Believe you me, I watch all changes to the awards very carefully (and so
do many of the other award volunteers). :-)

***************

Also, just to be clear on what this change was *not* intended to do: we
didn't even consider whether shorter stories get more votes than longer
stories. We didn't consider them because I don't believe in adding
special categories because a certain type of story is less popular or
will attract less votes than other types of stories. Categories are set
up for two purpose really:

1. Administrative. Because having a category will make it easier for the
volunteers to do their job.

2. Fairness. I want to help our voters compare apples to apples.

When we decided to set up the "Longer Works" category last year, that
second point was what really convinced me that Longer Works might be a
good idea: that novels took a different skill set to write well.

The reason I don't look at how well I think certain stories will do is
that "Some [things] never come to be", to borrow Galadriel's words to
Sam about the Mirror. I can't know how certain ideas will work, with any
kind of certainty, until I've given them a chance. Predicting the future
is a chancy thing, and I can't do it.

Whether longer stories or medium-length stories do better or worse under
this system, I really can't say. I will say that this is by *no* means a
comment about the relative worths of different kinds of stories. It's
just not a factor we considered.

Marta

Hooray! Have been makin' my list and checkin' it twice! All the tales on it
I've found to be nice....


Bonnie L. Sherrell
Teacher at Large

"Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends." LOTR

"Don't go where I can't follow."

I agree that the categories should be split (ficlets/novellas) but I don't agree with the comments someone made to enforcing reviewing requirements of longer length fiction, etc. If you make voting too hard or the rules of voting too restrictive, people won't be bothered to vote. I know that personally I always intend to read more, review more, etc but RL usually prevents that from happening. But I think that any reviews/votes should be welcomed. Even if its only a 2 sentence vote. At least someone took the time to read and vote. Telling people that you have to read a certain number of novellas to be considered a 'good' or fair reviewer/voter isn't really best for the contest IMO. Alot of people vote for stories they already have read so requiring them to read a certain number of stories before they vote on them isn't going to work because they could have read them 6 months ago.
 
 
Posted by: "Raven Scott" ravenswing14337@hotmail.com   ravens_wing14337
Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:02 pm (PDT)
I agree with Oshun on this one. It isn't fair to ask someone who has taken the time to create a 10,000+ word story to compete against a ficlet or a drabble...they just shouldn't be in the same category at all. Perhaps a way to solve the problem is to ask reviewers to commit to reading a certain number of longer stories, or a new section/category for "Avid Readers" where the longer stories could be housed. Perhaps something along the lines of what they do with Oscar nominations and voting, where you're required to see all the movies before you can vote. Where you have to read a minimum number of longer stories before you can vote on longer stories. Otherwise, it really does become a ficlet competition.
 
 
 


 



~~**~~
I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge. 
JRR Tolkien
 




 ..·*´¨¨))   -:¦:-
        ¸.·´  .·´¨¨))  -:|:- 
°º.. Alassante .. º°
    -:¦:-    ((¸¸.·´*  -:|:-




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I would have to agree with Alassante with regards to the voting
requirements. I personally prefer to read the longer works (anything over
1000 words) simply because I tend to write longer works myself and so am
more familiar with them than I am with drabbles and ficlets, but I would
never insist that others read them if that is not their cup of tea. So
making the reading of such longer works a requirement for voting makes no
sense.

I do believe that there should be a distinction between ficlets, true short
stories and novellas. I certainly wouldn't want my longer work competing
against a ficlet that's half the length of my story. It's not fair to me or
to the ficlet writer. Best that they should be kept separate.
At any rate, now I better start looking at my own list (woefully short) of
stories to nominate and add to it. I meant to keep a list all along but
forgot about it. Now, I'll have to go back and try to remember whose stories
I really liked. *grin*

Fiondil
--
"What part of 'You're dead' don't you understand?" -- Nýmo to an
Unidentified Elven Fýa giving the Lord of Mandos grief

****
Auta i lýmý! Utýlie'n aurý! ý Battle Cry of the Noldor at the Dagor
Nirnaeth Arnediad

Aurý entuluva! ý Battle Cry of Hýrin at the Dagor Nirnath Arnediad

Utýlie'n Estel ý Hope hath come


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I try to vote on a certain number of ficlets per day during voting season, and
work on one novel at a time if I hadn't already read it. I think the last two
years I got most of the ficlets and single-chapter stories responded to as long
as they weren't slash, but certainly didn't get all the longer stories
read--even I ran out of time!

One thing I noted is that those stories in the middle pages of the list of
nominated stories were those most likely to be skipped over in the voting. I
tried to counter this by reading from random pages in the middle at least once a
week rather than from the beginning or end. I doubt there were many author's
who didn't get at least one review from me unless they only had one story
nominated and it was a full novel that appeared in the center of the list. I'll
try to do much the same this year as well.
Bonnie L. Sherrell
Teacher at Large

"Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends." LOTR

"Don't go where I can't follow."

Last year I actually made a list of stories to read based on my reviewing
goal. I had four main categories: short stories (any length), medium-length
stories (novellas), novels and a miscellaneous category comprising of
non-fiction and poetry. The short stories category was the largest I think
given that there are more of them I think than longer works anyway. Once I
set my reviewing goal I trolled through the nominations and picked out
stories that I had already read and wanted to review, as well as trying out
new stories and new authors (the majority of the stories I read and
reviewed). Any story I nominated automatically was put on the list. I try to
choose more stories than my goal because I know that some stories I will
read but for whatever reason feel that I cannot fairly review them, so the
number of stories actually reviewed will not be the same number as I
initially choose. If possible I try to read and review more than the number
stated in my reviewing goal though I think last year because I was traveling
across Asia and busy settling in my new home here in Germany I didn't have
as much time or energy to devote to MEFAs as I had originally planned.
Hopefully, this year will be better. I did at least make my reviewing goal
so I'm proud of that. Unfortunately I simply cannot read every story, not
even every story in a particular category, but I try to expand my reading to
include authors and stories that I generally don't read outside of MEFA.

Fiondil

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 7:51 PM, Bonnie L. Sherrell <blslarner@olypen.com>wrote:

>
>
> I try to vote on a certain number of ficlets per day during voting season,
> and
> work on one novel at a time if I hadn't already read it. I think the last
> two
> years I got most of the ficlets and single-chapter stories responded to as
> long
> as they weren't slash, but certainly didn't get all the longer stories
> read--even I ran out of time!
>
> One thing I noted is that those stories in the middle pages of the list of
> nominated stories were those most likely to be skipped over in the voting.
> I
> tried to counter this by reading from random pages in the middle at least
> once a
> week rather than from the beginning or end. I doubt there were many
> author's
> who didn't get at least one review from me unless they only had one story
> nominated and it was a full novel that appeared in the center of the list.
> I'll
> try to do much the same this year as well.
> Bonnie L. Sherrell
> Teacher at Large
>
> "Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very
> wise cannot see all ends." LOTR
>
> "Don't go where I can't follow."
>
>
>



--
"What part of 'You're dead' don't you understand?" -- Nýmo to an
Unidentified Elven Fýa giving the Lord of Mandos grief

****
Auta i lýmý! Utýlie'n aurý! ý Battle Cry of the Noldor at the Dagor
Nirnaeth Arnediad

Aurý entuluva! ý Battle Cry of Hýrin at the Dagor Nirnath Arnediad

Utýlie'n Estel ý Hope hath come


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

doesn't each user see a different (random) order of stories? The same each
time for *that* user, but I thought everyone's order was different.?

Sulriel


On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Bonnie L. Sherrell
<blslarner@olypen.com>wrote:

>
> One thing I noted is that those stories in the middle pages of the list of
> nominated stories were those most likely to be skipped over in the voting.
> I
> tried to counter this by reading from random pages in the middle at least
> once a
> week rather than from the beginning or end. I doubt there were many
> author's
> who didn't get at least one review from me unless they only had one story
> nominated and it was a full novel that appeared in the center of the list.
> I'll
> try to do much the same this year as well.
> Bonnie L. Sherrell
> Teacher at Large
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I think its sorted by number. Each nominated story has a number by it - probably assigned when it was nominated. Mine usually was sorted by that. So a late nomination would put the story at the bottom because its number was higher. I might be wrong though. Its been awhile.
 
I think everyone has the best intentions to help out their fellow author so the voting should be as easy as possible. Some people might not think its fair that certain readers only vote in certain categories - say Silmarillion readers who won't read Hobbit or LOTR stories that much, or readers who don't read slash or smut. But since they are taking their time to read a story and review it, I think we, as writers, should be honored/flattered by that alone. I would hate to see less people voting because they feel uncomfortable if they only vote in certain categories/sections/etc.

 



~~**~~
I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge. 
JRR Tolkien
 




 ..·*´¨¨))   -:¦:-
        ¸.·´  .·´¨¨))  -:|:- 
°º.. Alassante .. º°
    -:¦:-    ((¸¸.·´*  -:|:-

--- On Thu, 4/30/09, Súlriel of Menegroth <sulriel@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Súlriel of Menegroth <sulriel@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [MEFAwards] Re: IMPORTANT: Changes for 2009 Awards
To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, April 30, 2009, 2:21 PM








doesn't each user see a different (random) order of stories? The same each
time for *that* user, but I thought everyone's order was different.?

Sulriel

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 12:51 PM, Bonnie L. Sherrell
<blslarner@olypen. com>wrote:

>
> One thing I noted is that those stories in the middle pages of the list of
> nominated stories were those most likely to be skipped over in the voting.
> I
> tried to counter this by reading from random pages in the middle at least
> once a
> week rather than from the beginning or end. I doubt there were many
> author's
> who didn't get at least one review from me unless they only had one story
> nominated and it was a full novel that appeared in the center of the list.
> I'll
> try to do much the same this year as well.
> Bonnie L. Sherrell
> Teacher at Large
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Those who did the software will have to explain it. I know that I got lots of
readings of those of my stories nominated that were near the beginning and the
end of the list as I at least saw it; but a few that were in the middle seem to
have received relatively few reviews, so I assumed the mix I saw was the same
for everybody!
Bonnie L. Sherrell
Teacher at Large

"Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends." LOTR

"Don't go where I can't follow."

Under Genres, you will now be able to select "Character Studies." This
is good for pieces that are more about exploring a certain character
rather than being drama, humor, etc. (The characters don't need to be
canonical; character studies of original characters are allowed as well.)
Just a question on this (and, for a change, with no bias on my part!): I am
a little confused as to what would go into this category. For example, I
think of myself as writing character-based novels, novellas, or short
stories. The psychological insights into not just a single protagonist but all
of the main characters are more the focus of the work than the actual
events. Even when the events are epic, it is the characters' reactions to them
and their psychological makeup that interest me. I definitely do not follow
the pattern of 1) invent a conflict and 2) follow it through to a tidy
resolution. Every year trying to decide if something of mine would fit into a
category of drama, humor, or romance for me usually also seems almost
completely arbitrary (I try to put all of those elements into anything I'm
writing).

Somehow I don't think that's what you are talking about here. I am trying
to think of what kind of a story would fit in a "character study" category
and coming up with a blank.

Can anyone who participated in the discussion give me a couple of examples
of the kind of stories you had in mind?


Sorry to be so dense,

Oshun



**************Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and
Desktops!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219491521x1201306563/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.double
click.net%2Fclk%3B214102108%3B35952091%3Bs)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I was wondering the same thing Oshun and would appreciate some examples
myself. I tend to explore the psychological/spiritual make-up of my
characters, both canon and original, and their reactions to the events
around them rather than create a conflict for the sake of creating one, so
like you, I'm not sure that is what is in mind here. Some clarification
would be welcomed.

Fiondil

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:15 PM, <heartofoshun@aol.com> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> Under Genres, you will now be able to select "Character Studies." This
> is good for pieces that are more about exploring a certain character
> rather than being drama, humor, etc. (The characters don't need to be
> canonical; character studies of original characters are allowed as well.)
> Just a question on this (and, for a change, with no bias on my part!): I am
>
> a little confused as to what would go into this category. For example, I
> think of myself as writing character-based novels, novellas, or short
> stories. The psychological insights into not just a single protagonist but
> all
> of the main characters are more the focus of the work than the actual
> events. Even when the events are epic, it is the characters' reactions to
> them
> and their psychological makeup that interest me. I definitely do not follow
>
> the pattern of 1) invent a conflict and 2) follow it through to a tidy
> resolution. Every year trying to decide if something of mine would fit into
> a
> category of drama, humor, or romance for me usually also seems almost
> completely arbitrary (I try to put all of those elements into anything I'm
> writing).
>
> Somehow I don't think that's what you are talking about here. I am trying
> to think of what kind of a story would fit in a "character study" category
> and coming up with a blank.
>
> Can anyone who participated in the discussion give me a couple of examples
> of the kind of stories you had in mind?
>
> Sorry to be so dense,
>
> Oshun
>
> **************Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and
> Desktops!(
> http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219491521x1201306563/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.double
> click.net%2Fclk%3B214102108%3B35952091%3Bs)
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>



--
"What part of 'You're dead' don't you understand?" -- Nýmo to an
Unidentified Elven Fýa giving the Lord of Mandos grief

****
Auta i lýmý! Utýlie'n aurý! ý Battle Cry of the Noldor at the Dagor
Nirnaeth Arnediad

Aurý entuluva! ý Battle Cry of Hýrin at the Dagor Nirnath Arnediad

Utýlie'n Estel ý Hope hath come


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Birthday Present<http://aranel-took.fancrone.net/other/drabbles/birthday_present.php>
is the
story that prompted my suggestion. The only Races category that fit the
story was "Hobbits", there is only one Times it could be since it covers no
more than 5-10 minutes of Pippin's childhood, and there was no Genre it fit
into at all because it's a simple interaction of characters. I ended up
picking Drama for it as well, because I had to pick three categories and
that was the "lesser Evil" of all the Genre choices, and it ended up having
to get categorized in Drama, though it was nothing like the stories it
competed against. There is no plot, it is just a simple exploration of a
moment between Bilbo and Pippin.
I think it is most appropriate for short works that do not tell a Three Act
Story. A poem could also use this, since poems often delve into a simple
characterization of a person, or a single moment, rather than a plot. The
same with many drabbles and ficlets. You wouldn't use it for anything longer
than a short story.

Aranel

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 3:15 PM, <heartofoshun@aol.com> wrote:

>
>
> Under Genres, you will now be able to select "Character Studies." This
> is good for pieces that are more about exploring a certain character
> rather than being drama, humor, etc. (The characters don't need to be
> canonical; character studies of original characters are allowed as well.)
> Just a question on this (and, for a change, with no bias on my part!): I am
> a little confused as to what would go into this category. For example, I
> think of myself as writing character-based novels, novellas, or short
> stories. The psychological insights into not just a single protagonist but
> all
> of the main characters are more the focus of the work than the actual
> events. Even when the events are epic, it is the characters' reactions to
> them
> and their psychological makeup that interest me. I definitely do not
> follow
> the pattern of 1) invent a conflict and 2) follow it through to a tidy
> resolution. Every year trying to decide if something of mine would fit
> into a
> category of drama, humor, or romance for me usually also seems almost
> completely arbitrary (I try to put all of those elements into anything I'm
> writing).
>
> Somehow I don't think that's what you are talking about here. I am trying
> to think of what kind of a story would fit in a "character study" category
> and coming up with a blank.
>
> Can anyone who participated in the discussion give me a couple of examples
> of the kind of stories you had in mind?
>
>
> Sorry to be so dense,
>
> Oshun
>
>
>
> **************Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and
> Desktops!(
> http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219491521x1201306563/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.double
> click.net%2Fclk%3B214102108%3B35952091%3Bs)
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Visit our website: http://www.mefawards.net/MEFA2008/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OK. I understand. That makes perfect sense. I have read drabbles that would
fit in a category like that. Categories are hard in general. If we were in
a bookstore--we would all be dumped into the same section "fantasy." I
always find it really difficult to decide where anything of mine should be.

And the double-bind is to hope to be compared to like pieces instead of
against literary forms that have totally different rules and intents (and
audience, of course). Most of us try to branch out a little in these awards
and read other areas that we do not read on a daily basis, but our favorite
genres remain our favorite genres.

Birthday
Present<_http://aranel-http://aranel-http://arahttp://arhttp://arhttp://aran_
(http://aranel-took.fancrone.net/other/drabbles/birthday_present.php) >
is the
story that prompted my suggestion. The only Races category that fit the
story was "Hobbits", there is only one Times it could be since it covers no
more than 5-10 minutes of Pippin's childhood, and there was no Genre it fit
into at all because it's a simple interaction of characters. I ended up
picking Drama for it as well, because I had to pick three categories and
that was the "lesser Evil" of all the Genre choices, and it ended up having
to get categorized in Drama, though it was nothing like the stories it
competed against. There is no plot, it is just a simple exploration of a
moment between Bilbo and Pippin.
I think it is most appropriate for short works that do not tell a Three Act
Story. A poem could also use this, since poems often delve into a simple
characterization of a person, or a single moment, rather than a plot. The
same with many drabbles and ficlets. You wouldn't use it for anything
longer
than a short story.

Aranel




**************Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and
Desktops!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219491521x1201306563/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.double
click.net%2Fclk%3B214102108%3B35952091%3Bs)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I am very happy to see Character Studies being added this year as most of my ficlets fall into this category! :)

I'm also glad to see that FLF has been done away with (other than drabbles) and all ficlets under 1000 words can compete against each other (I would not want my ficlet to compete against a novel).

I do wonder about those stories that fall in between however and wonder if perhaps in future MEFAs it would not be beneficial to break it down further: ficlets, short stories and novels. I find it very unfair to see stories of say 2500 words competing against 50K novels. Perhaps there should be a 2000 - 10,000 word category? Or something similar to even the field a bit?

Anyway, thanks Marta and team for all your hard work. Now I must find what I did with my nominations list....

Hi Oshun,

> [Under Genres, you will now be able to select "Character Studies." ]

> Just a question on this (and, for a change, with no bias on my part!): I am
> a little confused as to what would go into this category. For example, I
> think of myself as writing character-based novels, novellas, or short
> stories. The psychological insights into not just a single protagonist
> but all
> of the main characters are more the focus of the work than the actual
> events. Even when the events are epic, it is the characters' reactions
> to them
> and their psychological makeup that interest me. I definitely do not follow
> the pattern of 1) invent a conflict and 2) follow it through to a tidy
> resolution. Every year trying to decide if something of mine would fit
> into a
> category of drama, humor, or romance for me usually also seems almost
> completely arbitrary (I try to put all of those elements into anything I'm
> writing).
>

I agree that at base all writing is about characterization, just like
all writing is about plot and style and all that other good stuff. :-) I
think for me the question is one of focus. Is the story *more* about the
jokes or drama or tension, or is it about something you'e trying to
develop about the character? In geneal, gapfillers often fit well here.
So would things trying to explain a canon conundrum. And I'd expect
slice-of-life/fluff-type fic would fit better here than in other genres,
though I'm having a hard time explaining precisely why. I'll have to
think of why; and of course it would depend on the fluff. Fingon and
Maedhros curling up by the fire could be very romantic or could turn
into a drag-out fight that would be the height of drama, or could be
nothing but humorous parlor-talk. But if it's not really any of those
things and it's just about those two characters, I'd say it fits in
General better than any of the other genres categories.

Hmm, examples... pandemonium_213 actually jumps to mind. His "The
Apprentice" and many of his Eregion fics. Because while there are
undoubtedly drama and humor and action elements, the feature I really
come away from those stories with is world-building, or
character-building. Most of my BMEM fics ended up being more about
characters than any genre and I can see myself selecting Character
Studies quite a bit. (Though we made this decision before BMEM, IIRC.)

Thundera Tiger is another author that wrote a lot of stories that might
fit well here. There's her stories about Legolas and Imrahil building a
ship, which are all about character development (esp. on Legolas's
part.) And her Legolas-Gimli friendship fics.

Does that help? At all? I feel like I'm not doing a great job of
answering this question.

Marta

Arthur Boccaccio wrote:

> I was wondering the same thing Oshun and would appreciate some examples
> myself. I tend to explore the psychological/spiritual make-up of my
> characters, both canon and original, and their reactions to the events
> around them rather than create a conflict for the sake of creating one, so
> like you, I'm not sure that is what is in mind here. Some clarification
> would be welcomed.
>
> Fiondil
>

Hi Fiondil,

One thing that might be helpful is to ask yourself the queswtion: given
the choice, would you rather compete against stories of some genre
(drama, humor, whatever); or would you rather your stories compete
against other character-driven pieces, even if the characters are very
different from your own.

Gapfillers fit well here, but I think any piece that is more about
exploring or developing a character (or even a race or setting) than it
is about fitting in some other genre like humor or whatever - that story
would work well in Character Studies.

I do think it will be a useful category, for administrative reasons but
also because I know there are lots of readers out there who like to read
pieces that try to explain or develop a character beyond what we're told
in canon. Obviously this always happens in nearly every story, but in
some stories this is more the focus than others. (I know these readers
exist because SI happen to quite like that focus myself.)

Marta

Marta--I think the point that it is a better categorization for a short
than long fic. I usually have less trouble placing my short stories or
ficlets (the shorter the easier). It's my in-between stories that are so hard to
place--the 8-15,000-word range ones. They tend to broaden a bit past 5,000
words in my experience. I put one piece in humor last year and a couple of
people asked me what in the world I could have been thinking, telling me
that it was sad and wistful, with tragic foreboding, and running against
comedy pieces. (I thought it was funny!)

Oshun
**************Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and
Desktops!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219491521x1201306563/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.double
click.net%2Fclk%3B214102108%3B35952091%3Bs)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Larner,

> One thing I noted is that those stories in the middle pages of the list of
> nominated stories were those most likely to be skipped over in the voting. I
> tried to counter this by reading from random pages in the middle at
> least once a
> week rather than from the beginning or end. I doubt there were many author's
> who didn't get at least one review from me unless they only had one story
> nominated and it was a full novel that appeared in the center of the
> list. I'll
> try to do much the same this year as well.

I just have to comment on this because it gives me a chance to brag on
Tanaqui and Aranel. The list that you see by default (before you tell it
to put the stories in alphabetical order, for instance) is different
from the list that I see. Or that any other member sees. Obviously it's
the same stories, but it's in a different order. So the stories in the
middle of your list may be at the beginning or end of someone else's.

I forget exactly how this is done. It has something to do with a
mathematics formula; I think the website takes the product of the number
identifying you and the number identifying the story, and plugs it
through some math formula that kind of randomizes it and then uses
*that* number to order the fics. Something like that; it has been an
extremely long day and my brain has the deads, if you know what I mean.
:-) But the end result is: the website randomizes the order stories
appear in.

Which amuses my math brain and has the added bonus of of making the
awards fairer (because stories don't show up first because they were
nominated first or whatever). It's a very cool piece of coding.

Marta

Súlriel of Menegroth wrote:

>
>
>
> doesn't each user see a different (random) order of stories? The same each
> time for *that* user, but I thought everyone's order was different.?
>

*nods*

That's it exactly.

Marta

Hi Alassante,

> I think its sorted by number. Each nominated story has a number by it -
> probably assigned when it was nominated. Mine usually was sorted by
> that. So a late nomination would put the story at the bottom because its
> number was higher. I might be wrong though. Its been awhile.
>

I just checked, and the story list does sort differently when I log in
under different accounts. So at least for me it works the way I
described, at least for me.

You're right that each story is assigned a number, which appears on the
left hand side of the screen. You're also right that it's generated by
the order it was nominated. First nomination = 1, second nomination = 2,
etc. This is what the website uses to keep track of the different
nominations - kind of like a call number at the library. But the list
shouldn't be sorted by it unless you tell the list to do it specifically.

If you run into this next year, I'd be interested in knowing what you
were doing when you encountered it. Could you mail me if it happens in
the future? Just drop a line to mefasupport-at-gmail-dot-com.

Oh, and on this:

> I think everyone has the best intentions to help out their fellow author
> so the voting should be as easy as possible. Some people might not think
> its fair that certain readers only vote in certain categories - say
> Silmarillion readers who won't read Hobbit or LOTR stories that much, or
> readers who don't read slash or smut. But since they are taking their
> time to read a story and review it, I think we, as writers, should be
> honored/flattered by that alone. I would hate to see less people voting
> because they feel uncomfortable if they only vote in certain
> categories/sections /etc.
>

*nods, enthusiastically* ONe of the things I've always loved about the
MEFAs is that you can read as much or as little as you like, so I know
that what people review, they really chose to do that freely. (Any
philosophers in the crowd may now laugh at the way my coursework is
infecting all areas of my thought... :-D) Anyway, I think the best way
to make the reviewing pool fairer isn't to restrict reviewers, but to
recruit *new* reviewers. Not enough Silmfic reviews being written? Get
involved, and recruit silmfic readers. Ditto for people who prefer to
read longer stories or dwarf-lovers (I know there must be some,
somewhere!) or Sam/Witch-king slashers or whatever else you can imagine.
If there's some subgroup that's not as well represented in the MEFAs as
you think it should be, then encourage that type of fandom member to
sign up.

Marta

>

In a message dated 4/30/2009 5:54:37 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
marta.fandom@gmail.com writes:

If there's some subgroup that's not as well represented in the MEFAs as
you think it should be, then encourage that type of fandom member to
sign up.


I don't know if you have any idea the level to which I have done exactly
that! Both on Silm fics and genre. I would do it on other things as well if
I believed they were under-represented in comparison to quality and
quanitity of what is being produced (I am a huge reader).
**************Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and
Desktops!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219491521x1201306563/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.double
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I am coming late to this discussion, as work and other RL things kept me
from commenting this morning.

I realize that the decision has already been made for this year, but I would
like to mention a couple of things anyway, LOL!

I noticed that most of the objections to the elimination of the
"fixed-length-ficlet" as a separate category came from those who tend to
write long stories for the most part. I am sorry to see it eliminated for
another reason.

I write *both* ficlets and long stories. And I write *both* plain old
garden variety ficlets that have no particular word length *and* fixed
length ficlets. I write drabbles, tribbles, drabble series, etc. And I
have to say, that there is *also* a different skill set involved in fitting
a story into a set number of words, whether that length is, by design, a
"true" 100 word drabble or some sort of hybrid such as a "drouble" or a
"tribble", the writer is still constrained by the form, in much the same way
as a writer of a sonnet or a sestina or a limerick is constrained by the
form. And drabble sets or series may go on for far longer than five
drabbles--but each individual section remains a fixed-length.

At any rate, I thought it was a really useful category (or sub-category) and
am going to miss it. I hope perhaps we can revisit the issue next year!

I am very excited, however to see that we will soon be coming up to the new
MEFA season! I need to add some more stories to my list of nominations!

Dreamflower

On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 9:23 PM, aure_enteluva <marta.fandom@gmail.com>wrote:

>
>
> Hey guys,
>
> I've been working over the last several months with some of you
> (particularly Tanaqui, Aranel Took, Inkling, Radbooks, and elliska ý
> THANK YOU!) to figure out how we can improve the awards for the 2009
> year. We are all looking forward to the upcoming awards and I will have
> some specific dates of when we expect to start soon. There are a few changes
> that need to be made to the website, but once they are, off we go again. :-)
>
> [Promoters: You may if you like forward this on to your group. I leave it
> up to your discretion.]
>
> When the 2009 awards do start, I think you'll notice some nice improvements
> to areas like the FAQs (we're adding a few and hopefully making them all
> more useful). There are also some changes to award policy that I want to
> discuss with you all.
>
> Many of these changes affect authors. If you are nominating a story that
> looks like it would be affected, please mention these changes to the author
> so they can make the decision that best represents their story.
>
> FICLETS AND DRABBLES
>
> In previous years we have let drabbles and other fixed-length ficlets
> compete against each other in special subcategories so that they didn't run
> against short stories, let alone novels ý a definite Good Thing as far as it
> goes. But because there weren't always enough of the longer fixed-legnth
> ficlets, those pieces often ended up going into their third-choice
> categories, and some authors have noted that they'd rather they run against
> full-length stories in their first- or second-choice categories.
>
> So next year we will be trying something slightly different. Drabbles (==
> pieces exactly 100 words long) will still compete in special subcategories
> within all the main subcategories. Drabble authors should select three main
> category choices just like they did in the past, and don't need to do
> anything new.
>
> Longer ficlets (== for 2009, a piece up to 1,000 words but not also a
> drabble) *may* compete against other ficlets but may also compete against
> full-length story. It's up to the author. If the author wants to compete
> against other ficlets they should select the new "Genres: Ficlets" main
> category and two others of their choice. This will work like the "Genres:
> Longer Works" category in that you are guaranteed to compete against other
> ficlets but not necessarily about the same type of character or time period.
>
> As with all categories, your order choice matters. If you want to compete
> against other ficlets you should select "Genres: Ficlets" as
> your first-choice category.
>
> Series will mostly be handled along the same lines. Short drabble series
> (up to ~5 drabbles) will compete in the Drabble subcategories. Longer
> drabble series and series of longer ficlets may compete in the "Genres:
> Ficlets" main category if they select that category. These longer series can
> also compete against full-length stories in any of the main categories if
> the author prefers.
>
> Just to be clear, series may be longer than the 1,000 word limit and still
> compete in Ficlets, if each part is less than 1,000 words. Of course if you
> have a ficlet series of thirty triple drabbles (9k words) your liaison may
> raise an eyebrow and suggest you move it to a category where it could
> compete on more equal footing. We'll handle those rare instances on a
> case-by-case basis.
>
> *****************************
>
> REVIEWING GOALS
>
> By popular request, we're going to extend the date you have to set your
> reviewing goal (if you choose to do this). You'll have until one month after
> categorization is finalized.
>
> *****************************
>
> OTHER NEW MAIN CATEGORIES
>
> We decided to offer a few new categories this year in addition to the
> Ficlets one mentioned above.
>
> Under Genres, you will now be able to select "Character Studies." This
> is good for pieces that are more about exploring a certain character
> rather than being drama, humor, etc. (The characters don't need to be
> canonical; character studies of original characters are allowed as well.)
>
> The Times subcategory will be divided into the following categories:
>
> ==> Times: First Age and Prior
> ==> Times: Second and Early Third Age (through 2850 T.A./1250 S.R.)
> ==> Times: Pre-Ring War (2851-3017 T.A./1251-1418 S.R.)
> ==> Times: Ring War (3018-3019 T.A./1418-1419 S.R.)
> ==> Times: Post-Ring War and Beyond (after 3019 T.A./1419 S.R.)
> ==> Times: Modern Times
> ==> Times: Multi-Age
>
> In general, Pre-Ring War will cover the events of _The Hobbit_ and the
> childhoods and early adventures of Lord of the Rings characters; Ring War
> will cover the Quest and the Ring War itself; and post-Ring War will include
> events that happened after the Ring War, whether in the Third or Fourth Age.
>
> As always, the dates are suggestions more than hard rules; if you have a
> story that is technically set in 3017 that you feel fits better in Ring War
> than the Pre-Ring War period, you are free to select that. Similarly, you
> may feel a story set in the tail end of the First Age fits better with
> Second and Early Third Age; again, that's your decision. You are really
> selecting what kind of story you would want to run against rather than
> giving an absolute description of your own story. (If you do decide to do
> this, you might want to note it in the summary, just so your readers aren't
> surprised.)
>
> *****************************
>
> BANNERS
>
> We have devised a system that reflects both of the options in the recent
> poll. Authors will have some banners made available to them that don't
> require customization (so they can be used right away), but banner makers
> will also be able to make banners available to all categories (and winning
> authors may customize these banners themselves or request that one of our
> volunteers help them).
>
> I'll discuss more details about this with the banner artists after we
> get through categorizing, and authors will be informed at the end of the
> awards. It's hardly a secret, but it's a little technical to describe in
> detail to people who won't be making or using banners.
>
> Looking forward to seeing what you guys will nominate!
>
> Yours,
>
> Marta (MEFA Admin.)
>
>
>


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I've been thinking on the ficlet issue under (unintended! :) discussion here. At first, Oshun, my reaction was the same as yours: that it clearly disadvantaged longer stories, which tend to get fewer reviews to start, in my experience. But, the more I thought on it, I also came up with another way of looking at it that might balance it out more, and I hope it will maybe provide some consolation for those who think that their longer stories are going to be at a disadvantage in this year's award.

While I do think that shorter pieces get *more* reviews, I also find--in my experience--that they receive *shorter* reviews. I know that I have trouble coming up with a 10-point review for a 750-word story whereas, for a 7500-word story, a 10-point review is a breeze. Likewise, I feel like my longer stories receive longer reviews than my ficlets. (I haven't actually done a statistical analysis of this, but it's certainly the impression that I get.)

In the end, I don't know how the chips will fall. But it seems to me that it could go either way and might, possibly, even strike enough of a balance that neither group affected notices the change.

All the best,

Dawn
the eternal, hopelessly hopeful, pie-eyed optimist 8^)

Oh, Dawn you're probably right. I just continually feel like like the
effort of novellas and novels is so wearing and day-in-and-day-out labor
intensive and sniff! sniff! nobody cares! I am not one of those people who churn
them out either. I have such prolific friends. While I spend forever working
on them. Nevermind me. I always panic at any change!
**************Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and
Desktops!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219491521x1201306563/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.double
click.net%2Fclk%3B214102108%3B35952091%3Bs)


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My feeble brain has run out of memory and needs to be reminded as to which stories have already competed at MEFAs.

Is the list of previous competitors here <http://mefawards.net/mefa-archive/> up to date, or does it not have stories from last year in it? I see lots of 2007, but not 2008, I don't think.

If it is not up to date, is there going to be any problem accessing last year's story database? I ask because I seem to recall that at a certain point, due to some weird technical issues, one could only access the current year MEFA site... am I making sense?

Thanks,

Dwim

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "dwimmer_laik" <dwimmer_laik@...> wrote:

>
> My feeble brain has run out of memory and needs to be reminded as to which stories have already competed at MEFAs.
>
> Is the list of previous competitors here <http://mefawards.net/mefa-archive/> up to date, or does it not have stories from last year in it? I see lots of 2007, but not 2008, I don't think.
>
> If it is not up to date, is there going to be any problem accessing last year's story database? I ask because I seem to recall that at a certain point, due to some weird technical issues, one could only access the current year MEFA site... am I making sense?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dwim
>

Dwim,

I believe that is still being worked on by the simply wonderful tech people we have! :) It should be available to you very soon. You can go to the 2008 MEFA site and look at the stories... I just did it anyway.

Radbooks

Hi Dwim,
I am in the process of updating the Archive at this very moment, so probably
within a half hour or so everything should be up and running with 2008 data
added (though it hasn't been 'error-checked' yet, so if you see anything
that looks off, let me know!).

And there is no problem going to the MEFA website. The previous problem was
when we had two different years' sites running at the same time and the
cookies were getting confused if you went back and forth. But since we are
no longer running the previous year's site along with the current year's
site, there should be no problem with visiting the MEFA site outside the
awards seasons anymore.

Aranel

On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 9:01 PM, dwimmer_laik <dwimmer_laik@yahoo.com>wrote:

> My feeble brain has run out of memory and needs to be reminded as to which
> stories have already competed at MEFAs.
>
> Is the list of previous competitors here <
> http://mefawards.net/mefa-archive/> up to date, or does it not have
> stories from last year in it? I see lots of 2007, but not 2008, I don't
> think.
>
> If it is not up to date, is there going to be any problem accessing last
> year's story database? I ask because I seem to recall that at a certain
> point, due to some weird technical issues, one could only access the current
> year MEFA site... am I making sense?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dwim
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Visit our website: http://www.mefawards.net/MEFA2008/Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >
> Dwim,
>
> I believe that is still being worked on by the simply wonderful tech people we have! :) It should be available to you very soon. You can go to the 2008 MEFA site and look at the stories... I just did it anyway.

Will do. Thanks, Radbooks.

Dwim

The intent was not to get people to be "better reviewers" but rather to get the longer length stories on a better footing, so to speak, with the shorter ones. It's easy to get someone to read a 500 word story it's not that easy to get them to read a 10,000 word story as it takes much longer. The point was if you're going to vote for longer stories - read more than one, compare longer stories to other longer stories. Don't just read one and then say this is the best ever, read four or five - that way you have something to compare it with.






"If lines must be crossed, if alliances must be broken...do it Fast...do it Furious"






To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
From: alassante7@yahoo.com
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 09:12:15 -0700
Subject: [MEFAwards] Re: IMPORTANT: Changes for 2009 Awards








I agree that the categories should be split (ficlets/novellas) but I don't agree with the comments someone made to enforcing reviewing requirements of longer length fiction, etc. If you make voting too hard or the rules of voting too restrictive, people won't be bothered to vote. I know that personally I always intend to read more, review more, etc but RL usually prevents that from happening. But I think that any reviews/votes should be welcomed. Even if its only a 2 sentence vote. At least someone took the time to read and vote. Telling people that you have to read a certain number of novellas to be considered a 'good' or fair reviewer/voter isn't really best for the contest IMO. Alot of people vote for stories they already have read so requiring them to read a certain number of stories before they vote on them isn't going to work because they could have read them 6 months ago.


Posted by: "Raven Scott" ravenswing14337@hotmail.com ravens_wing14337
Wed Apr 29, 2009 8:02 pm (PDT)
I agree with Oshun on this one. It isn't fair to ask someone who has taken the time to create a 10,000+ word story to compete against a ficlet or a drabble...they just shouldn't be in the same category at all. Perhaps a way to solve the problem is to ask reviewers to commit to reading a certain number of longer stories, or a new section/category for "Avid Readers" where the longer stories could be housed. Perhaps something along the lines of what they do with Oscar nominations and voting, where you're required to see all the movies before you can vote. Where you have to read a minimum number of longer stories before you can vote on longer stories. Otherwise, it really does become a ficlet competition.






~~**~~
I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge.
JRR Tolkien


..ý*ýýý)) -:ý:-
ý.ýý .ýýýý)) -:|:-
ýý.. Alassante .. ýý
-:ý:- ((ýý.ýý* -:|:-

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