Yahoo Forum Archive

This is an archive of the MEFA Yahoo Group, which was shut down by Yahoo in 2019. The archive can be sorted by month and by topic ID. You can use your browser to search by keyword within the month or topic you have open.

JanFebMarAprMayJunJulAugSepOctNovDec
2004---18210426558925263362316285
20051895610753834744697276194358565136
200623166277611713912756676615979
200720257-297299143318583103
2008561335424014127477516090106
2009283-39194101722722153624
201067-14103138129321316330
20111-172625906132758
201230---812276-----
2013------------
2014---------1-2
2015------------
2016------------
2017------------
2018------------
2019---------1--

Msg# 4919

Re: Bad URL for Dana's story--1311? Posted by BLJean@aol.com July 01, 2005 - 18:41:33 Topic ID# 4919
I emailed Dana about this, and here is her response:
(I don't have time today to go to the MEFA database to look it up for myself,
sorry)

Do they mean http://www.rosiesamfrodo.com/~dana/writing/fan/hal.htm?

Because it loads for me... they might have caught it while I was deleting
and reuploading things, so it would have not existed then. But you'll let them
know, yes?

--Dana




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 4920

Word counting Posted by obsidianjj July 02, 2005 - 19:09:37 Topic ID# 4920
Hi,

I joined the list a few days ago and have started writing some
reviews.

But now I'm a bit confused as to how the words are counted. I started
to write a little Review and saved it. I got a page where the number
of words was listed, but it had roughtly about 100 words more than I
could count on my own. I noticed it because I was interrupted and had
written about 20 words. I was surprised that my little sentence was
supposed to have that many words(123).

Any explanations?

Chris

Msg# 4921

Re: Word counting Posted by Larian Elensar July 02, 2005 - 19:35:12 Topic ID# 4920
It doesn't count words, it counts *characters* So each letter counts for 1.

--- obsidianjj <grzonka@adelphia.net> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I joined the list a few days ago and have started writing some
> reviews.
>
> But now I'm a bit confused as to how the words are counted. I started
> to write a little Review and saved it. I got a page where the number
> of words was listed, but it had roughtly about 100 words more than I
> could count on my own. I noticed it because I was interrupted and had
> written about 20 words. I was surprised that my little sentence was
> supposed to have that many words(123).
>
> Any explanations?
>
> Chris
>
>
>

Msg# 4922

Re: Word counting Posted by Marta Layton July 02, 2005 - 19:41:19 Topic ID# 4920
Hi Chris,

On 2 Jul 2005, at 20:09, obsidianjj wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I joined the list a few days ago and have started writing some
> reviews.
>
> But now I'm a bit confused as to how the words are counted. I started
> to write a little Review and saved it. I got a page where the number
> of words was listed, but it had roughtly about 100 words more than I
> could count on my own. I noticed it because I was interrupted and had
> written about 20 words. I was surprised that my little sentence was
> supposed to have that many words(123).
>
> Any explanations?
>
> Chris
>

The count that you're seeing isn't the word count; it's actually the
character count. MEFA comments are scored based on the number of
characters they contain, not counting spaces.

So twenty words might roughly be 120 characters -- that would be six
characters a word, which seems reasonable.

Marta
*****
Preach the Gospel at all times. If necessary, use words. - St. Francis
of Assisi


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 4923

Re: Word counting Posted by Chris Grzonka July 02, 2005 - 19:54:38 Topic ID# 4920
Duh, I should learn to read what is on the paper and not substitute with
what I think is there<g>.

Thanks to everyone who answered so quickly. It makes much more sense now.

Chris

Msg# 4924

Re: Word counting Posted by Silver Wolf101 July 03, 2005 - 1:02:11 Topic ID# 4920
Was it the number of characters you were looking at, rather than words?

>From: "obsidianjj" <grzonka@adelphia.net>
>Reply-To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
>To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [MEFAwards] Word counting
>Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 00:09:35 -0000
>
>Hi,
>
>I joined the list a few days ago and have started writing some
>reviews.
>
>But now I'm a bit confused as to how the words are counted. I started
>to write a little Review and saved it. I got a page where the number
>of words was listed, but it had roughtly about 100 words more than I
>could count on my own. I noticed it because I was interrupted and had
>written about 20 words. I was surprised that my little sentence was
>supposed to have that many words(123).
>
>Any explanations?
>
>Chris
>
>

Msg# 4925

Hi, I saw you in a YAHOO! group. Want to chat? Posted by lena2005110 July 06, 2005 - 2:53:31 Topic ID# 4925
I am on this dating site which only serves BBW, BHM and FA. Register
only 2 pages and send me a wink here! :-)

http://www.specialbbws.Zu5.net

Msg# 4926

Re: Hi, I saw you in a YAHOO! group. Want to chat? Posted by sulriel July 06, 2005 - 6:56:27 Topic ID# 4925
This user has been placed on moderated status. Please don't reply
unless you wish to do so privately.

Sulriel


--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "lena2005110" <lena2005110@y...>
wrote:
> I am on this dating site which only serves BBW, BHM and FA. Register
> only 2 pages and send me a wink here! :-)
>
> http://www.specialbbws.Zu5.net

Msg# 4927

Re: Hi, I saw you in a YAHOO! group. Want to chat? Posted by sulriel July 06, 2005 - 6:58:34 Topic ID# 4925
This user has been placed on moderated status. Please don't reply
unless you wish to do so privately.

Sulriel


--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "lena2005110" <lena2005110@y...>
wrote:
> I am on this dating site which only serves BBW, BHM and FA. Register
> only 2 pages and send me a wink here! :-)
>
> http://www.specialbbws.Zu5.net

Msg# 4928

Broken link? Posted by aelfwina@cableone.net July 07, 2005 - 18:51:02 Topic ID# 4928
I just went to click on Orc Sign by Kit5 (pippinswolf) and got the thingy that said the link did not work. Just thought I'd let you know.
Dreamflower
(Barbara)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 4929

OT: London Posted by Ainaechoiriel July 08, 2005 - 14:38:09 Topic ID# 4929
I do hope all our members are safe and their families, too. I hate
terrorism. It's almost too hard to put into words. My sincerest condolences
to anyone who lost a friend or love one.

--Ainaechoiriel
MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

<http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa> http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The
Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards

Blog: <http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com/>
http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 4930

Re: OT: London Posted by MarigoldCotton@aol.com July 08, 2005 - 15:05:35 Topic ID# 4929
Thank you Ainae. I am fine and so is Llinos, and I heard that Rhapsody was on holiday in London with her husband that but they are all right.

I am so pleased that the members of the fandom that have been planning to come for a visit in August have all written to say that they are not changing their plans - good, we can't let the ba***d's win!

Marigold
>I do hope all our members are safe and their families, too. I hate
>terrorism. It's almost too hard to put into words. My sincerest condolences
>to anyone who lost a friend or love one.
>
>--Ainaechoiriel
>MEFA Admin and Founder
>
>"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
>it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.
>
> <http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa> http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The
>Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards
>
>Blog: <http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com/>
>http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
Marigold's Red Book
http://marigold.tolkienshire.com

Marigold's Recommendations Page
http://www.geocities.com/marigoldsrecommendations/

Marigold's Live Journal
http://www.livejournal.com/users/marigoldg/

Tales of The Red Book
http://www.livejournal.com/users/talesofredbook/




There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty forever beyond its reach.
>
>Sam, in Mordor, RoTK

Msg# 4931

(no subject) Posted by Lady Firniswin July 08, 2005 - 20:12:15 Topic ID# 4931
"Can't believe that I'm here in this place again/ How did I manage to mess up one more time/This pattern seems to be the story of my life/ Should've learned this lesson by the thousandth time/ 'Cause I promised myself I wouldn't fall/ But here I've fallen/ I guess I'm not as strong as I thought// All I can do is cry to you- Oh, God you have to save me/ Your my last and only hope/ All my right answers fail me/ And I can't seem to make it on my own...//" -Barlow Girl "On My Own"



















---------------------------------
Sell on Yahoo! Auctions - No fees. Bid on great items.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 4932

Oops! Posted by ladyfirniswin July 08, 2005 - 20:19:59 Topic ID# 4932
Sorry! *smiles sheepishly*

I uh, I didn't realize that the email went directly here. Um! Anyway!

My name is Firniswin and I love to write and read and I VERY much
enjoy entering writing competitions!

I am very excited to be a part of this group and hope to be able to
nominate plenty of brilliant writers!

Blessings!
Firniswin

Msg# 4933

Re: Oops! Posted by Marta Layton July 08, 2005 - 21:09:31 Topic ID# 4932
Hi Firniswin,

Greetings, and well met.

> Sorry! *smiles sheepishly*
>
> I uh, I didn't realize that the email went directly here. Um! Anyway!
>

No worries. :-)

> My name is Firniswin and I love to write and read and I VERY much
> enjoy entering writing competitions!
>

Welcome! I hope you find the MEFAs to your liking. Out of curiosity,
how did you hear about us?

> I am very excited to be a part of this group and hope to be able to
> nominate plenty of brilliant writers!
>

Well, the nominations for this year are over. Here's a schedule of the
different "periods" of the award:

1. Nomination Season (April 1st-May 15) ***Closed***
This is when we nominate the stories we want to compete in that year's
awards. There will be a similar season next year.

2. Check Ballot Season (May 16-May 31) *** Closed ***
This is mainly an administrative season - the admins organise the
nominated stories into categories and sub-categories. Then we post
lists of stories in each category/sub-category to the group, and you
guys look over them and help us catch any mistakes.

3. Reading Season (July 1-August 15)
You read all the stories that have been nominated that you want to
read, and begin entering votes into the voting website. You should
receive a log-in to this site shortly; if you don't in a day or so,
please speak up.

4. Voting Season (August 16-September 30)
This is a time to finalise your votes. You can still vote on stories
you didn't get a chance to vote on during reading season. You need to
finish all your votes by this time. (And if you have any draft votes
that you want to count, change their status to Tentative or Final.)

So you can still read and vote on the stories that have been nominated
for this year, and you're certain welcome to stick around and nominate
stories next year.

How do the awards work? Basically you write up comments on stories you
want to vote on. The longer the comments the more points the story
gets, capping off at 10 votes for 1100 characters. (For the full points
scale, see V.E of http://home.earthlink.net/~ainae/mefa/rules.html .
The top three scorers in each category or subcategory get an award (see
http://home.earthlink.net/~ainae/mefa/2005catsA.html for all the
categories and awards), and those stories within three points of third
place get an "honourable mention".

If you have any questions post them here and someone will answer them
for you.

Marta
*****
Preach the Gospel at all times. If necessary, use words. - St. Francis
of Assisi


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 4934

Re: invalid links Fw: Orc Sign Posted by aelfwina@cableone.net July 10, 2005 - 18:14:49 Topic ID# 4934
When I could not find "Orc Sign" by Kit5 using the link at the MEFA site,
Marigold sent me this:

----- Original Message -----
From: <MarigoldCotton@aol.com>
To: <aelfwina@cableone.net>
Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 5:42 PM
Subject: Orc Sign


> Hi Ya,
>
> Here are the links to Orc Sign:
>
> Chapter One:
> http://www.livejournal.com/users/talechallenge02/16846.html#cutid1
>
> Chapter Two:
> http://www.livejournal.com/users/talechallenge02/16419.html#cutid1
>
> Chapter Three:
> http://www.livejournal.com/users/talechallenge02/16208.html#cutid1
>
> Can you let them know at MEFA?
>
> Love,
>
> L
> --
> Marigold's Red Book
> http://marigold.tolkienshire.com
>
> Marigold's Recommendations Page
> http://www.geocities.com/marigoldsrecommendations/
>
> Marigold's Live Journal
> http://www.livejournal.com/users/marigoldg/
>
> Tales of The Red Book
> http://www.livejournal.com/users/talesofredbook/
>
>
>
>
> There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the
> mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it
> smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope
> returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him
> that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was
> light and high beauty forever beyond its reach.
>>
>>Sam, in Mordor, RoTK
>
>

Msg# 4935

Re: invalid links Fw: Orc Sign Posted by Ainaechoiriel July 10, 2005 - 23:21:24 Topic ID# 4934
Then we have a problem. We can't post three different links to a story. It
has to be easy for a voter to find the next chapter, etc. This is exactly
why I've outlawed the Tolkien Online archive. This is also why I have begun
to think that we should not allow LiveJournal posts. Yes, I realize that
seems drastic to some and many LiveJournal stories are easy enough to
navigate. But this is a problem that must be addressed. As it stands, next
year, a story must be easily navigable or it will be disallowed. If an
Author Liaison can't find the story or can't find the next chapter to a
story, it will not be approved. I'm not talking about archive sites being
down for maintenance and if we can't find a story, we will ask the Author
for another URL. But situations like this one where there are no links from
Chapter 1 to Chapter 2, etc., will be cause for Withdrawal.

Think about that when you nominate a story. We aren't an archive so we
can't dictate how stories are posted. But we can decide what we will allow
and what we won't.

As for this story, can anyone find a better link? One to the whole story?
If someone is really adamant that this story still stay in the awards and
everything and easy solution is to build a small web page with these three
links on it. Then we can use the URL of that web page as the URL for the
story.

--Ainaechoiriel
MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards

Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com



> -----Original Message-----
> From: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of aelfwina@cableone.net
> Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 6:15 PM
> To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [MEFAwards] Re: invalid links Fw: Orc Sign
>
> When I could not find "Orc Sign" by Kit5 using the link at
> the MEFA site, Marigold sent me this:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <MarigoldCotton@aol.com>
> To: <aelfwina@cableone.net>
> Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 5:42 PM
> Subject: Orc Sign
>
>
> > Hi Ya,
> >
> > Here are the links to Orc Sign:
> >
> > Chapter One:
> > http://www.livejournal.com/users/talechallenge02/16846.html#cutid1
> >
> > Chapter Two:
> > http://www.livejournal.com/users/talechallenge02/16419.html#cutid1
> >
> > Chapter Three:
> > http://www.livejournal.com/users/talechallenge02/16208.html#cutid1
> >
> > Can you let them know at MEFA?
> >
> > Love,
> >
> > L
> > --
> > Marigold's Red Book
> > http://marigold.tolkienshire.com
> >
> > Marigold's Recommendations Page
> > http://www.geocities.com/marigoldsrecommendations/
> >
> > Marigold's Live Journal
> > http://www.livejournal.com/users/marigoldg/
> >
> > Tales of The Red Book
> > http://www.livejournal.com/users/talesofredbook/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high
> up in the
> > mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The
> beauty of it
> > smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope
> > returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the
> thought pierced him
> > that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing
> thing: there was
> > light and high beauty forever beyond its reach.
> >>
> >>Sam, in Mordor, RoTK
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Msg# 4936

Re: invalid links Fw: Orc Sign Posted by Rosemary Baxter July 11, 2005 - 0:22:30 Topic ID# 4934
Orc Sign by Kit 5 is also at West of the Moon.

http://www.west-of-the-moon.net/servlet/ReadGenStory?storyID=220

Bodkin

Ainaechoiriel <mefaadmin@earthlink.net> wrote:
Then we have a problem. We can't post three different links to a story. It
has to be easy for a voter to find the next chapter, etc. This is exactly
why I've outlawed the Tolkien Online archive. This is also why I have begun
to think that we should not allow LiveJournal posts. Yes, I realize that
seems drastic to some and many LiveJournal stories are easy enough to
navigate. But this is a problem that must be addressed. As it stands, next
year, a story must be easily navigable or it will be disallowed. If an
Author Liaison can't find the story or can't find the next chapter to a
story, it will not be approved. I'm not talking about archive sites being
down for maintenance and if we can't find a story, we will ask the Author
for another URL. But situations like this one where there are no links from
Chapter 1 to Chapter 2, etc., will be cause for Withdrawal.

Think about that when you nominate a story. We aren't an archive so we
can't dictate how stories are posted. But we can decide what we will allow
and what we won't.

As for this story, can anyone find a better link? One to the whole story?
If someone is really adamant that this story still stay in the awards and
everything and easy solution is to build a small web page with these three
links on it. Then we can use the URL of that web page as the URL for the
story.

--Ainaechoiriel
MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards

Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com



> -----Original Message-----
> From: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of aelfwina@cableone.net
> Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 6:15 PM
> To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [MEFAwards] Re: invalid links Fw: Orc Sign
>
> When I could not find "Orc Sign" by Kit5 using the link at
> the MEFA site, Marigold sent me this:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <MarigoldCotton@aol.com>
> To: <aelfwina@cableone.net>
> Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 5:42 PM
> Subject: Orc Sign
>
>
> > Hi Ya,
> >
> > Here are the links to Orc Sign:
> >
> > Chapter One:
> > http://www.livejournal.com/users/talechallenge02/16846.html#cutid1
> >
> > Chapter Two:
> > http://www.livejournal.com/users/talechallenge02/16419.html#cutid1
> >
> > Chapter Three:
> > http://www.livejournal.com/users/talechallenge02/16208.html#cutid1
> >
> > Can you let them know at MEFA?
> >
> > Love,
> >
> > L
> > --
> > Marigold's Red Book
> > http://marigold.tolkienshire.com
> >
> > Marigold's Recommendations Page
> > http://www.geocities.com/marigoldsrecommendations/
> >
> > Marigold's Live Journal
> > http://www.livejournal.com/users/marigoldg/
> >
> > Tales of The Red Book
> > http://www.livejournal.com/users/talesofredbook/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high
> up in the
> > mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The
> beauty of it
> > smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope
> > returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the
> thought pierced him
> > that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing
> thing: there was
> > light and high beauty forever beyond its reach.
> >>
> >>Sam, in Mordor, RoTK
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>




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Msg# 4937

Re: invalid links Fw: Orc Sign Posted by Ainaechoiriel July 11, 2005 - 1:12:55 Topic ID# 4934
Thank you. That one is much better. I've edited it on the MEFA2005 site.

--Ainaechoiriel
MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards

Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com



> -----Original Message-----
> From: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rosemary Baxter
> Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 12:22 AM
> To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [MEFAwards] Re: invalid links Fw: Orc Sign
>
> Orc Sign by Kit 5 is also at West of the Moon.
>
> http://www.west-of-the-moon.net/servlet/ReadGenStory?storyID=220
>
> Bodkin
>
> Ainaechoiriel <mefaadmin@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Then we have a problem. We can't post three different links
> to a story. It has to be easy for a voter to find the next
> chapter, etc. This is exactly why I've outlawed the Tolkien
> Online archive. This is also why I have begun to think that
> we should not allow LiveJournal posts. Yes, I realize that
> seems drastic to some and many LiveJournal stories are easy
> enough to navigate. But this is a problem that must be
> addressed. As it stands, next year, a story must be easily
> navigable or it will be disallowed. If an Author Liaison
> can't find the story or can't find the next chapter to a
> story, it will not be approved. I'm not talking about
> archive sites being down for maintenance and if we can't find
> a story, we will ask the Author for another URL. But
> situations like this one where there are no links from
> Chapter 1 to Chapter 2, etc., will be cause for Withdrawal.
>
> Think about that when you nominate a story. We aren't an
> archive so we can't dictate how stories are posted. But we
> can decide what we will allow and what we won't.
>
> As for this story, can anyone find a better link? One to the
> whole story?
> If someone is really adamant that this story still stay in
> the awards and everything and easy solution is to build a
> small web page with these three links on it. Then we can use
> the URL of that web page as the URL for the story.
>
> --Ainaechoiriel
> MEFA Admin and Founder
>
> "This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves,"
> Elrond said, "for it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at
> that." --H.F.
>
> http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards
>
> Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> aelfwina@cableone.net
> > Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 6:15 PM
> > To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [MEFAwards] Re: invalid links Fw: Orc Sign
> >
> > When I could not find "Orc Sign" by Kit5 using the link at the MEFA
> > site, Marigold sent me this:
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <MarigoldCotton@aol.com>
> > To: <aelfwina@cableone.net>
> > Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 5:42 PM
> > Subject: Orc Sign
> >
> >
> > > Hi Ya,
> > >
> > > Here are the links to Orc Sign:
> > >
> > > Chapter One:
> > > http://www.livejournal.com/users/talechallenge02/16846.html#cutid1
> > >
> > > Chapter Two:
> > > http://www.livejournal.com/users/talechallenge02/16419.html#cutid1
> > >
> > > Chapter Three:
> > > http://www.livejournal.com/users/talechallenge02/16208.html#cutid1
> > >
> > > Can you let them know at MEFA?
> > >
> > > Love,
> > >
> > > L
> > > --
> > > Marigold's Red Book
> > > http://marigold.tolkienshire.com
> > >
> > > Marigold's Recommendations Page
> > > http://www.geocities.com/marigoldsrecommendations/
> > >
> > > Marigold's Live Journal
> > > http://www.livejournal.com/users/marigoldg/
> > >
> > > Tales of The Red Book
> > > http://www.livejournal.com/users/talesofredbook/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high
> > up in the
> > > mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The
> > beauty of it
> > > smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken
> land, and hope
> > > returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the
> > thought pierced him
> > > that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing
> > thing: there was
> > > light and high beauty forever beyond its reach.
> > >>
> > >>Sam, in Mordor, RoTK
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
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>
> ---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> Visit your group "MEFAwards" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> MEFAwards-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
> of Service.
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> ---------------------------------
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> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Messenger NEW - crystal clear PC to PCcalling
> worldwide with voicemail
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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>
>

Msg# 4938

Re: invalid links  Fw: Orc Sign Posted by MarigoldCotton@aol.com July 11, 2005 - 2:08:38 Topic ID# 4938
Ainae said: "As it stands, next year, a story must be easily navigable or it will be disallowed."

That sounds perfectly reasonable to me, but I would hate to have LiveJournal posts inelegible altogether. So many stories are only one chapter, and many multi-chapter stories have links at the bottom to the following chapters. Many authors post somewhere besides LJ, but not every one and I hope that if their stories are clearly posted that they will remain elegible.

Most multi-chapter stories from my Story Challenge sites are also posted elsewhere, and if I nominated any of those I used the links from other archives. I hadn't thought of it before, but from now on when an author submits a multi-chapter story to a Challenge I will post links to the next chapter at the bottom of each one. That will make it easier as readers won't have to go out of the story to click on the next chapter.

Cheers,

Marigold


--
Marigold's Red Book
http://marigold.tolkienshire.com

Marigold's Recommendations Page
http://www.geocities.com/marigoldsrecommendations/

Marigold's Live Journal
http://www.livejournal.com/users/marigoldg/

Tales of The Red Book
http://www.livejournal.com/users/talesofredbook/




There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty forever beyond its reach.
>
>Sam, in Mordor, RoTK

Msg# 4939

Re: [MEFAwards] Re: invalid links  Fw: Orc Sign Posted by Marta Layton July 11, 2005 - 3:54:16 Topic ID# 4938
Hi Marigold,

(Keep in mind that I'm working through email backwards, so the only
context I have for this is the little bit of Ainae's quoted below. I
reserve the right to clarify my opinion when I get to the original
post.)

On 11 Jul 2005, at 03:08, MarigoldCotton@aol.com wrote:

> Ainae said: "As it stands, next year, a story must be easily navigable
> or it will be disallowed."
>

For those people who are newer to the awards, last year we decided not
to allow stories posted to http://www.tolkienonline.com/ because there
was no easy way to navigate from one chapter to the next of multi-part
stories. So I think that's the concern with LJ -- for multipart
stories, some of them won't have one links from one to the next.

> That sounds perfectly reasonable to me, but I would hate to have
> LiveJournal posts inelegible altogether.

So would I. Because of the things I write and read (i.e., mostly
Gondor- and Rohan-based), those things are not often posted to LJs. Or
if they are, it's usually a header and a link to where they are at some
archive either a personal site or a public one like SOA, HASA, etc. So
the disallowing of LJs would not effect me strongly, but I know there's
a lot of great stuff out there available just as LJs.

> So many stories are only one chapter,

In my mind there's no problem at all with single-part stories posted on
LJs competing in the MEFAs. Or at least there shouldn't be a problem.

> and many multi-chapter stories have links at the bottom to the
> following chapters.

As long as this is the case, I don't think there should be a problem.

Where things get iffy is that in a couple of case, people would post
links to *previous* chapters but not to ones that follow that one. For
example, if someone is writing a three-chapter piece, the first chapter
would just be that chapter. The second chapter would have a line at the
top saying "For chapter one see [link]." And the third chapter would
have a line at the top saying "For chapter one see [link 1]; for
chapter two see [link2]." The author never got around to going back and
editing the first chapter after the story was finished.

The problem with this is that the only chapter with navigation to the
other chapters is the last one, but it's a bit of a backwards way to
navigate things. KWIM?

As far as I can see it there are three good options here, any one of
which would make posts of multi-part stories to LJs eligible:

==> What you're suggesting. Every post of an LJ must have links to all
subsequent and previous chapters.

==> This is an idea I was going to save for the post-mortem, and I'm
not sure whether Anthony will even say it's doable. But right now we
have just one link per story. One solution to this problem might be to
allow the nominator to enter multiple links, one for each chapter, and
have those display on the website.

==:> The third option involves getting someone else to host a "table of
contents" page. Many of us have our own websites. If an author or
nominator sent me the story, summary, ratings, and a URL for each
chapter it wouldn't take me long to throw together an index page. (This
would be like a table of contents, and it would be similar to what I
already have for my own multi-part pieces at
http://www.freewebs.com/aure/multipartstories.htm .) Now, I'm hesitant
at this point in the game to volunteer for anything new, because I'm
not sure how much time I'll be able to commit to the MEFAs next year.
But if an author could find someone with their own site who would be
willing to do this, then those links could point to the different LJ
entries.

Marta
*****
Preach the Gospel at all times. If necessary, use words. - St. Francis
of Assisi


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 4940

Live Journal stories Posted by BLJean@aol.com July 11, 2005 - 17:34:25 Topic ID# 4940
Well, I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water. Some LJ authors are
careful to edit posts so that they contain links to following and preceding
chapters, allowing you to go back and forth through a story. So, rather than
disallowing LJ completely next year, perhaps just keep the "easily navigable"
criterion.

Perhaps this ought to have been saved for the postmortem, but I might have
forgotten by then.

Thanks,
Lin

In a message dated 7/11/2005 3:23:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com writes:
This is also why I have begun
to think that we should not allow LiveJournal posts. Yes, I realize that
seems drastic to some and many LiveJournal stories are easy enough to
navigate. But this is a problem that must be addressed. As it stands, next
year, a story must be easily navigable or it will be disallowed.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 4941

Re: Live Journal stories Posted by Ainaechoiriel July 11, 2005 - 18:15:25 Topic ID# 4940
No worries. That's where it will be for now. Easily navigable. And Marta
did show there are several ways around it. Though I'd still prefer only one
link per story. I don't want to have to disallow lj's. Heck, if Tolkien
Online ever cleans up their archive and actually makes it useful, we'll lift
the ban on them. Incidentally, to the new folks here, when I got fed up
with Tolkien Online's archive last year and said it wouldn't be allowed this
year, I got no arguments. It seemed like everyone agreed it was not an
easily navigable place.

--Ainaechoiriel
MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards

Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com



> -----Original Message-----
> From: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of BLJean@aol.com
> Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 5:34 PM
> To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [MEFAwards] Live Journal stories
>
> Well, I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water. Some
> LJ authors are careful to edit posts so that they contain
> links to following and preceding chapters, allowing you to go
> back and forth through a story. So, rather than disallowing
> LJ completely next year, perhaps just keep the "easily navigable"
> criterion.
>
> Perhaps this ought to have been saved for the postmortem, but
> I might have forgotten by then.
>
> Thanks,
> Lin
>
> In a message dated 7/11/2005 3:23:45 PM Pacific Daylight
> Time, MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com writes:
> This is also why I have begun
> to think that we should not allow LiveJournal posts. Yes, I
> realize that seems drastic to some and many LiveJournal
> stories are easy enough to navigate. But this is a problem
> that must be addressed. As it stands, next year, a story
> must be easily navigable or it will be disallowed.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Msg# 4942

"The Wings of Shadow" by Aprilkat Posted by Marta Layton July 12, 2005 - 22:13:07 Topic ID# 4942
Hi gang,

Leaward said over at the staff list that Aprilkat has finished her
story "The Wings of the Shadow". As such I have changed its status from
WIP to incomplete, and I have moved it from the "incomplete"
subcategory of Romance to just "Genres: Romance" (no subcategory).

If you are looking for this story (#1244) you can find it there.

Marta
*****
Preach the Gospel at all times. If necessary, use words. - St. Francis
of Assisi

Msg# 4943

Lost a story! Posted by Ainaechoiriel July 20, 2005 - 14:54:26 Topic ID# 4943
And it's one I nominated. Can anyone contact Thuriniel and find out if it's
still out there somewhere?

Stranger
(Drabble) Rating: G
Story Author: Thuriniel
Nominated by: Ainaechoiriel
Award Category: Books/Time: Post-Ring War: General Drabble
Story's URL: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2244562/1/
Romance Partners: N/A
Story Summary:
Legolas arrives in Eryn Lasgalen.
Reason for Rating:
N/A

--Ainaechoiriel
MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

<http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa> http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The
Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards

Blog: <http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com/>
http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 4944

Re: Lost a story! Posted by ghettoelleth@aol.com July 20, 2005 - 15:01:56 Topic ID# 4943
Thuriniel will no longer be participating in the MEFA's, she sends her best
wishes, but you may remove her from nominations.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 4945

A problem? Posted by Ainaechoiriel July 20, 2005 - 15:05:22 Topic ID# 4945
Realizing that adding length info was just for readers' information and not
so much for categorization, and that we left length to author's discretion,
this one is a bit much.

sworn brothers
(Story: Short Story) Rating: PG . Enter New Review . Enter New Author Review
864
Story Author: elfqueen2003
Nominated by: elfqueen2003
Award Category: Races/Places: Elves
Story's URL: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1420933/1/
Romance Partners: N/A
Story Summary:
: Elrond and Elros discover that their friend prince Thranduil (who is 25
years younger than them) is the victim of Ophoror's anger. Can the twins
help him cope with memories? PG for mention of child abuse just to be safe
Reason for Rating:
abuse and violence

I've never seen a 21 chapter short story before!

--Ainaechoiriel
MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

<http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa> http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The
Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards

Blog: <http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com/>
http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 4946

And anotehr thing.... Posted by Ainaechoiriel July 20, 2005 - 15:13:03 Topic ID# 4946
If you find links take you to a group of stories and not right to the story
that was nominated, let us know. Links should be diretly to the story. I'm
okay with links taking me to a chapter list of a story but I don't like
being taken to a list of 20 stories then having to go back and remember
which story I was looking for.

I've changed maybe 5 of these links this week as I've come across them in my
gleaning for stories to put on my reading list. I might have missed some
that are on other peoples' lists and not mine.

--Ainaechoiriel
MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

<http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa> http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The
Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards

Blog: <http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com/>
http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 4947

Re: A problem? Posted by dwimmer\_laik July 20, 2005 - 21:05:16 Topic ID# 4945
--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "Ainaechoiriel" <mefaadmin@e...> wrote:
> Realizing that adding length info was just for readers' information
and not
> so much for categorization, and that we left length to author's
discretion,
> this one is a bit much.

I admittedly forgot, sometimes, to set that field properly. I imagine
many others did, too! It's probably just luck that most stories *are*
short story length that saved me.

Dwim

Msg# 4948

Story not found!- Mariposa Posted by dwimmer\_laik July 20, 2005 - 21:12:47 Topic ID# 4948
890 A Pint of Trouble (Story details)
(Story: Short Story) Rating: PG
Award Category:Books/Time: The Lord of The Rings: The Shire
Story Summary: Frodo and Merry decide to visit the inn... but they
have to take little Pippin with them, and that's the beginning of the
disaster.
Mariposa

Gives me a 404 error.

Not Found
The requested URL /pintgate.html was not found on this server.

Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to
use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
Apache/1.3.31 Server at www.maripo5a.net Port 80

Msg# 4949

Re: Story not found!- Mariposa Posted by MarigoldCotton@aol.com July 21, 2005 - 4:33:34 Topic ID# 4948
In an email dated 21/7/2005 3:12:35 am GMT Daylight time, "dwimmer_laik" <dwimmer_laik@yahoo.com> writes:

> 890 A Pint of Trouble (Story details)
>Not Found
>The requested URL /pintgate.html was not found on this server.

Hi,

It looks like Mariposa's own website is down. I haven't been able to reach her yet though to let her know, or find out what is up. Here is an alternate URL at SoA:

"A Pint of Trouble" http://www.storiesofarda.com/chapterlistview.asp?SID=2621

I noticed that in her list of nominated stories that there is one more with a link to her website, #781 "Beginnings that feel like endings, And the other way 'round". I haven't been able to find a link to this story anywhere else. It is quite long, and her website was desifned to host it, and I don't think she has posted it elsewhere.

All of her other nominations are on sites other than the affected one.

Marigold
>

>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
Marigold's Red Book
http://marigold.tolkienshire.com

Marigold's Recommendations Page
http://www.geocities.com/marigoldsrecommendations/

Marigold's Live Journal
http://www.livejournal.com/users/marigoldg/

Tales of The Red Book
http://www.livejournal.com/users/talesofredbook/




There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty forever beyond its reach.
>
>Sam, in Mordor, RoTK

Msg# 4950

Re: Lost a story! Posted by Ainaechoiriel July 21, 2005 - 9:48:14 Topic ID# 4943
Sad to hear but if that's what she wishes, we will remove her stories.

But here's a queestion for those who have already reviewed her stories:
Should I send those reviews to her?

So far, reviewers are myself, Dwim, Nancy Brooke, Nerwen, Marta,
Dreamflower, and Alassante.

I've got an e-mail all ready to go, so speak now or forever hold your piece.
I'll hold it in my Drafts folder for a couple of days before I send it.

--Ainaechoiriel
MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards

Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com



> -----Original Message-----
> From: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ghettoelleth@aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 3:02 PM
> To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MEFAwards] Lost a story!
>
> Thuriniel will no longer be participating in the MEFA's, she
> sends her best wishes, but you may remove her from nominations.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Msg# 4951

Re: A problem? Posted by Ainaechoiriel July 21, 2005 - 9:50:37 Topic ID# 4945
So should I change it to Novel or Novella? Thoughts?

--Ainaechoiriel
MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards

Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com



> -----Original Message-----
> From: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dwimmer_laik
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 9:05 PM
> To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [MEFAwards] Re: A problem?
>
> --- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "Ainaechoiriel"
> <mefaadmin@e...> wrote:
> > Realizing that adding length info was just for readers' information
> and not
> > so much for categorization, and that we left length to author's
> discretion,
> > this one is a bit much.
>
> I admittedly forgot, sometimes, to set that field properly. I
> imagine many others did, too! It's probably just luck that
> most stories *are* short story length that saved me.
>
> Dwim
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Msg# 4952

Re: Story not found!- Mariposa Posted by Ainaechoiriel July 21, 2005 - 9:59:09 Topic ID# 4948
Thanks. I've changed the URL on A Pint of Trouble. If anyone finds another
URL for the other story, let us know, otherwise, we'll just hope her site
will come back up.

--Ainaechoiriel
MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards

Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com



> -----Original Message-----
> From: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of MarigoldCotton@aol.com
> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 4:33 AM
> To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MEFAwards] Story not found!- Mariposa
>
> In an email dated 21/7/2005 3:12:35 am GMT Daylight time,
> "dwimmer_laik" <dwimmer_laik@yahoo.com> writes:
>
> > 890 A Pint of Trouble (Story details) Not Found The requested URL
> >/pintgate.html was not found on this server.
>
> Hi,
>
> It looks like Mariposa's own website is down. I haven't been
> able to reach her yet though to let her know, or find out
> what is up. Here is an alternate URL at SoA:
>
> "A Pint of Trouble"
> http://www.storiesofarda.com/chapterlistview.asp?SID=2621
>
> I noticed that in her list of nominated stories that there is
> one more with a link to her website, #781 "Beginnings that
> feel like endings, And the other way 'round". I haven't been
> able to find a link to this story anywhere else. It is quite
> long, and her website was desifned to host it, and I don't
> think she has posted it elsewhere.
>
> All of her other nominations are on sites other than the affected one.
>
> Marigold
> >
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Marigold's Red Book
> http://marigold.tolkienshire.com
>
> Marigold's Recommendations Page
> http://www.geocities.com/marigoldsrecommendations/
>
> Marigold's Live Journal
> http://www.livejournal.com/users/marigoldg/
>
> Tales of The Red Book
> http://www.livejournal.com/users/talesofredbook/
>
>
>
>
> There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up
> in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while.
> The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the
> forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft,
> clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the
> Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light
> and high beauty forever beyond its reach.
> >
> >Sam, in Mordor, RoTK
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Msg# 4953

Re: Lost a story! Posted by Nerwen Calaelen July 21, 2005 - 10:31:41 Topic ID# 4943
I know my review against the story was only a note to
say that I wasn't writing a review at that point, and
so would be meaningless sent to her. I don't know how
others feel about their's - perhaps any final reviews
should be sent to her and the others left as they were
not supposed to be seen by anyone yet. This of
course, leaves the reviewers free to contact her with
their comments if they choose, or not if they prefer
not to.
NerwenCalaelen

--- Ainaechoiriel <mefaadmin@earthlink.net> wrote:


---------------------------------
Sad to hear but if that's what she wishes, we will
remove her stories.

But here's a queestion for those who have already
reviewed her stories:
Should I send those reviews to her?

So far, reviewers are myself, Dwim, Nancy Brooke,
Nerwen, Marta,
Dreamflower, and Alassante.

I've got an e-mail all ready to go, so speak now or
forever hold your piece.
I'll hold it in my Drafts folder for a couple of days
before I send it.

--Ainaechoiriel
MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the
Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that."
--H.F.

http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth
Fanfiction Awards

Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com



> -----Original Message-----
> From: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
ghettoelleth@aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 3:02 PM
> To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MEFAwards] Lost a story!
>
> Thuriniel will no longer be participating in the
MEFA's, she
> sends her best wishes, but you may remove her from
nominations.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>




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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
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Msg# 4954

Re: Lost a story! Posted by Marta Layton July 21, 2005 - 12:29:25 Topic ID# 4943
On 21 Jul 2005, at 10:43, Ainaechoiriel wrote:

> Sad to hear but if that's what she wishes, we will remove her stories.
>
> But here's a queestion for those who have already reviewed her
> stories:
> Should I send those reviews to her?
>
> So far, reviewers are myself, Dwim, Nancy Brooke, Nerwen, Marta,
> Dreamflower, and Alassante.
>
> I've got an e-mail all ready to go, so speak now or forever hold your
> piece.
> I'll hold it in my Drafts folder for a couple of days before I send
> it.
>
> --Ainaechoiriel
> MEFA Admin and Founder
>

Hi Ainae,

I would like to at least give her that option. I can't remember which
of her stories I reviewed off-hand, but I do remember that I liked it a
lot, and I'd like for her to know as much.

Maybe say that several people have already reviewed her stories by
leaving comments at the site, would she like to see the comments? (Make
it clear to he r that we can withdraw the stories and still show her
the comments.

Marta

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 4955

Re: A problem? Posted by Marta Layton July 21, 2005 - 12:34:24 Topic ID# 4945
Hi Ainae,

On 21 Jul 2005, at 10:46, Ainaechoiriel wrote:

> So should I change it to Novel or Novella? Thoughts?
>

My impulse is no. The author chose that field (or at least approved of
it), and it's completely possible that a twenty-one chapter piece could
have under 25,000 words. (Some people have chapters that are well under
a thousand words a piece. Depends on the author and the style of the
story.) This is part of why I think the 25,000-word suggestion is too
high for this fandom, but I'll save that debate for the post-mortem.

Why don't you email the author and say you noticed the chapter-count
was a bit high for a short story, and offer to change it if the author
wishes?

Marta
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 4956

Re: Story not found!- Mariposa Posted by MarigoldCotton@aol.com July 21, 2005 - 13:12:08 Topic ID# 4948
Hi Ya,

I heard from Mariposa earlier and she was going to send in the links but apparantly she hasn't been able to yet. Here they are:

"For A Pint of Trouble, try this one:

http://www.maripo5a.net/pintgate.htm

And for Beginnings, try this one:

http://www.maripo5a.net/btflegate.htm"

Marigold : )



>Thanks. I've changed the URL on A Pint of Trouble. If anyone finds another
>URL for the other story, let us know, otherwise, we'll just hope her site
>will come back up.
>
>--Ainaechoiriel
>MEFA Admin and Founder
>
>"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
>it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.
>
>http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards
>
>Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
>> [mailto:MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of MarigoldCotton@aol.com
>> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 4:33 AM
>> To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [MEFAwards] Story not found!- Mariposa
>>
>> In an email dated 21/7/2005 3:12:35 am GMT Daylight time,
>> "dwimmer_laik" <dwimmer_laik@yahoo.com> writes:
>>
>> > 890 A Pint of Trouble (Story details) Not Found The requested URL
>> >/pintgate.html was not found on this server.
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> It looks like Mariposa's own website is down. I haven't been
>> able to reach her yet though to let her know, or find out
>> what is up. Here is an alternate URL at SoA:
>>
>> "A Pint of Trouble"
>> http://www.storiesofarda.com/chapterlistview.asp?SID=2621
>>
>> I noticed that in her list of nominated stories that there is
>> one more with a link to her website, #781 "Beginnings that
>> feel like endings, And the other way 'round". I haven't been
>> able to find a link to this story anywhere else. It is quite
>> long, and her website was desifned to host it, and I don't
>> think she has posted it elsewhere.
>>
>> All of her other nominations are on sites other than the affected one.
>>
>> Marigold
>> >
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >Yahoo! Groups Links
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Marigold's Red Book
>> http://marigold.tolkienshire.com
>>
>> Marigold's Recommendations Page
>> http://www.geocities.com/marigoldsrecommendations/
>>
>> Marigold's Live Journal
>> http://www.livejournal.com/users/marigoldg/
>>
>> Tales of The Red Book
>> http://www.livejournal.com/users/talesofredbook/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up
>> in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while.
>> The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the
>> forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft,
>> clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the
>> Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light
>> and high beauty forever beyond its reach.
>> >
>> >Sam, in Mordor, RoTK
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
Marigold's Red Book
http://marigold.tolkienshire.com

Marigold's Recommendations Page
http://www.geocities.com/marigoldsrecommendations/

Marigold's Live Journal
http://www.livejournal.com/users/marigoldg/

Tales of The Red Book
http://www.livejournal.com/users/talesofredbook/




There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty forever beyond its reach.
>
>Sam, in Mordor, RoTK

Msg# 4957

Re: Lost a story! Posted by ghettoelleth@aol.com July 21, 2005 - 13:34:13 Topic ID# 4943
In a message dated 7/21/2005 10:29:51 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
melayton@gmail.com writes:

Sad to hear but if that's what she wishes, we will remove her stories.
>
> But here's a queestion for those who have already reviewed her
> stories:
> Should I send those reviews to her?



Ainae, I'm sure that if the reviewers want to, she would be thrilled to
receive them.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 4958

New Author Review Posted by sulriel July 21, 2005 - 15:25:49 Topic ID# 4958
Are we supposed to be able to enter author reviews? I've put some in,
but the link doesn't change from 'new' to 'edit' like it does on the
story reviews.

Msg# 4959

Re: Lost a story! Posted by Ainaechoiriel July 21, 2005 - 15:45:25 Topic ID# 4943
The problem is that, Anthony will have to correct me on this if I'm wrong,
when I withdraw her stories, the reviews will go bye-bye. I will take yours
off the e-mail though. The easiest way for her to get the reviews is for me
to e-mail them. As an admin, I can see them all. If I remove her stories,
the individuals who reviewed wouldd have to have a copy of their review
on-hand if they want to send it.

--Ainaechoiriel
MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards

Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com



> -----Original Message-----
> From: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nerwen Calaelen
> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 10:32 AM
> To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [MEFAwards] Lost a story!
>
> I know my review against the story was only a note to say
> that I wasn't writing a review at that point, and so would be
> meaningless sent to her. I don't know how others feel about
> their's - perhaps any final reviews should be sent to her and
> the others left as they were not supposed to be seen by
> anyone yet. This of course, leaves the reviewers free to
> contact her with their comments if they choose, or not if
> they prefer not to.
> NerwenCalaelen
>
> --- Ainaechoiriel <mefaadmin@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Sad to hear but if that's what she wishes, we will remove her stories.
>
> But here's a queestion for those who have already reviewed
> her stories:
> Should I send those reviews to her?
>
> So far, reviewers are myself, Dwim, Nancy Brooke, Nerwen,
> Marta, Dreamflower, and Alassante.
>
> I've got an e-mail all ready to go, so speak now or forever
> hold your piece.
> I'll hold it in my Drafts folder for a couple of days before
> I send it.
>
> --Ainaechoiriel
> MEFA Admin and Founder
>
> "This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves,"
> Elrond said, "for it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that."
> --H.F.
>
> http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards
>
> Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> ghettoelleth@aol.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 3:02 PM
> > To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [MEFAwards] Lost a story!
> >
> > Thuriniel will no longer be participating in the
> MEFA's, she
> > sends her best wishes, but you may remove her from
> nominations.
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>
> Visit your group "MEFAwards" on the web.
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> MEFAwards-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
> Terms of Service.
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday
> snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

Msg# 4960

Re: Lost a story! Posted by Ainaechoiriel July 21, 2005 - 15:48:33 Topic ID# 4943
> -----Original Message-----
> From: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Marta Layton
> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 12:30 PM
> To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MEFAwards] Lost a story!
> >
>
> Hi Ainae,
>
> I would like to at least give her that option. I can't
> remember which of her stories I reviewed off-hand, but I do
> remember that I liked it a lot, and I'd like for her to know as much.
>
> Maybe say that several people have already reviewed her
> stories by leaving comments at the site, would she like to
> see the comments? (Make it clear to he r that we can withdraw
> the stories and still show her the comments.

Have you ever known anyone who didn't want reviews?

At this point, I have no informatin as to why Thuriniel wants out. It could
be a big RL issue or maybe she's just through with the fandom. It happens.
Still, I don't know any writer who doesn't want reviews. If it is major RL,
she might like a pick-me-up. If she's burnt-out she still might like her
existing reviews.

I really can't imagine anyone saying "No, I wouldn't like those positive
reviews." All reviews here are likely to be positive, so there's no
negativity to be feared. Why would anyone NOT want them. So I'm more
concerned about those who wrote them. Their reviews may not have been set
to final. Do they want anyone to see those reviews? Even the author?

--Ainaechoiriel
MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards

Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com

Msg# 4961

Re: A problem? Posted by Ainaechoiriel July 21, 2005 - 15:54:31 Topic ID# 4945
Well, since it is only informational, I'll just leave it but Author Liaisons
and authors should look out for this sort of thing next year.

--Ainaechoiriel
MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards

Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com




> -----Original Message-----
> From: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Marta Layton
> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 12:35 PM
> To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MEFAwards] Re: A problem?
>
> Hi Ainae,
>
> On 21 Jul 2005, at 10:46, Ainaechoiriel wrote:
>
> > So should I change it to Novel or Novella? Thoughts?
> >
>
> My impulse is no. The author chose that field (or at least
> approved of it), and it's completely possible that a
> twenty-one chapter piece could have under 25,000 words. (Some
> people have chapters that are well under a thousand words a
> piece. Depends on the author and the style of the
> story.) This is part of why I think the 25,000-word
> suggestion is too high for this fandom, but I'll save that
> debate for the post-mortem.
>
> Why don't you email the author and say you noticed the
> chapter-count was a bit high for a short story, and offer to
> change it if the author wishes?
>
> Marta
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Msg# 4962

Re: Lost a story! Posted by aelfwina@cableone.net July 21, 2005 - 19:16:48 Topic ID# 4943
Feel free to send mine.
Dreamflower
----- Original Message -----
From: Ainaechoiriel
To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 9:43 AM
Subject: RE: [MEFAwards] Lost a story!


Sad to hear but if that's what she wishes, we will remove her stories.

But here's a queestion for those who have already reviewed her stories:
Should I send those reviews to her?

So far, reviewers are myself, Dwim, Nancy Brooke, Nerwen, Marta,
Dreamflower, and Alassante.

I've got an e-mail all ready to go, so speak now or forever hold your piece.
I'll hold it in my Drafts folder for a couple of days before I send it.

--Ainaechoiriel
MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards

Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com



> -----Original Message-----
> From: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ghettoelleth@aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2005 3:02 PM
> To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MEFAwards] Lost a story!
>
> Thuriniel will no longer be participating in the MEFA's, she
> sends her best wishes, but you may remove her from nominations.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>




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YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "MEFAwards" on the web.

b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 4963

Re: New Author Review Posted by sulriel July 21, 2005 - 22:36:48 Topic ID# 4958
--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "sulriel" <Sulriel@h...> wrote:
> Are we supposed to be able to enter author reviews? I've put some
in, > but the link doesn't change from 'new' to 'edit' like it does on
the > story reviews.

I just talked to Anthony about this.

he says:
-paste-
Tell them that the code for changing the 'Enter a new Author Review'
to 'Edit your XXX Author Review' (where XXX is draft, tentative, or
final) is broken, but that it is saving the reviews.
-end paste-

I entered several today, and the system appears to be saving the text
even though the flag isn't changed to show that a review has been
entered. He said it would be a few days before he could get to it.

Msg# 4964

Re: Lost a story Posted by BLJean@aol.com July 22, 2005 - 15:31:18 Topic ID# 4964
It appears Thuriniel has deleted her story at ff.net and her account at Open
Scrolls, just FYI.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 4965

"Before I go to sleep" is complete Posted by beleg1cuthalion July 23, 2005 - 16:26:42 Topic ID# 4965
Hi there,

my tale "Before I go to sleep" (nominated in the category
"Romance"/ Story no. 869) is now complete. *wipes her brow*
It was originally nominated as a WIP.

Greetings

Cthalion

Msg# 4966

Re: "Before I go to sleep" is complete Posted by Marta Layton July 23, 2005 - 16:52:04 Topic ID# 4965
On 23 Jul 2005, at 17:25, beleg1cuthalion wrote:

> Hi there,
>
> my tale "Before I go to sleep" (nominated in the category
> "Romance"/ Story no. 869) is now complete. *wipes her brow*
> It was originally nominated as a WIP.
>
> Greetings
>
> Cthalion
>

Hi Cuthalion,

Huzzah! Well done! I have not read this one yet, but anyone who
finishes a WIP deserves kudos in my eyes.

I have moved "Before I Go to Sleep" from Romance/Incomplete to the main
Romance category (no subcategory). I have also changed the status from
Incomplete to Story, which should indicate to readers that the piece is
no longer a WIP.

Let me know if you need me to do anything else.

Marta


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 4967

Re: "Before I go to sleep" is complete Posted by beleg1cuthalion July 23, 2005 - 17:04:24 Topic ID# 4965
Thank you, Marta (and a lovely weekend!)

Cthalion

Msg# 4968

URL correction: Jay of Lasgalen Posted by dwimmer\_laik July 24, 2005 - 15:33:32 Topic ID# 4968
1323 Important Business (Story details)
(Vignette: Ficlet) Rating: G
Award Category:Books/Time: The Lord of The Rings: Rivendell
Story Summary: An uninvited observer of the Council of Elrond...

The URL should be:

http://www.storiesofarda.com/chapterview.asp?sid=1712&cid=12955

Msg# 4969

Re: URL correction: Jay of Lasgalen Posted by Marta Layton July 24, 2005 - 15:56:06 Topic ID# 4968
On 24 Jul 2005, at 16:32, dwimmer_laik wrote:

> 1323 Important Business (Story details)
> (Vignette: Ficlet) Rating: G
> Award Category:Books/Time: The Lord of The Rings: Rivendell
> Story Summary: An uninvited observer of the Council of Elrond...
>
> The URL should be:
>
> http://www.storiesofarda.com/chapterview.asp?sid=1712&cid=12955

Thanks, Dwim. I've fixed it in the system.

If anyone finds something that should be corrected, this here is a
text-book example of how to send those corrections in. At least it is
for me; very easy to see what exactly needs to be fixed. All the right
information, and nothing extra to wade through.

Marta


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 4970

Woo-hoo! Posted by aelfwina@cableone.net July 25, 2005 - 11:35:23 Topic ID# 4970
I hit 250 reviews! Only about a thousand more to go...
Dreamflower

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 4971

voting season question Posted by Kathy July 25, 2005 - 12:33:21 Topic ID# 4971
Sorry if this is a dumb question or has been asked before (or both),
but just to make sure: we can submit reviews right up to the end of
Voting Season (Sept 30), correct?

thanks,

Kathy (Inkling)

Msg# 4972

Re: voting season question Posted by Marta Layton July 25, 2005 - 12:36:49 Topic ID# 4971
Hi Kathy,

On 25 Jul 2005, at 13:33, Kathy wrote:

> Sorry if this is a dumb question or has been asked before (or both),
> but just to make sure: we can submit reviews right up to the end of
> Voting Season (Sept 30), correct?
>
> thanks,
>
> Kathy (Inkling)
>

Yes. And if you have any "draft" reviews that you want to be counted,
make sure you change them to "tentative" or "final" by that point.

Marta


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 4973

Re: Woo-hoo! Posted by rhapsody\_the\_bard July 25, 2005 - 12:56:16 Topic ID# 4970
--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, <aelfwina@c...> wrote:
> I hit 250 reviews! Only about a thousand more to go...

Wow... I am at a very meager 11. Well I do have reasons for it. But
wow Dreamflower! That is awesome!

Rhapsody

Msg# 4974

Re: Woo-hoo! Posted by aelfwina@cableone.net July 25, 2005 - 13:18:15 Topic ID# 4970
Well, I started early. And a lot of the stories I've reviewed, I've read already fairly recently, and did not need to re-read. But things are slowing down now that I'm getting to stories that I've never read or that it's been a while and I need to refresh my memory.
Dreamflower
----- Original Message -----
From: rhapsody_the_bard
To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 12:56 PM
Subject: [MEFAwards] Re: Woo-hoo!


--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, <aelfwina@c...> wrote:
> I hit 250 reviews! Only about a thousand more to go...

Wow... I am at a very meager 11. Well I do have reasons for it. But
wow Dreamflower! That is awesome!

Rhapsody




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Msg# 4975

Woo-hoo! Posted by BLJean@aol.com July 25, 2005 - 16:53:47 Topic ID# 4970
Perhaps there ought to be an award for most reviews!

Go, Dreamflower!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 4976

Re: Woo-hoo! Posted by Marta Layton July 25, 2005 - 17:11:17 Topic ID# 4970
On 25 Jul 2005, at 17:53, BLJean@aol.com wrote:

> Perhaps there ought to be an award for most reviews!
>

We actually batted around this idea over at the admin list at one
point. We decided against it because we thought it would be too
competitive, but it might be an idea worth toying with.

One idea I had a while back was coming up with banners to recognise
different "levels" of reviewing. If you cast a certain number of votes,
or you vote for a certain number of entries, or what-not, you get to
use a certain banner, and when you reach the next level you get a
different banner, etc. I was envisioning something similar to the
banners I have seen used in conjunction with Marigold's challenges.
Mari, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't your authors get to use one LJ
icon when they have written a certain number of stories, a different
icon when they reach the next level, and so-on? This idea would be a
non-competitive way to recognise prolific reviewers.

Another option might be to do it using percentages. The top award goes
to the top 10% of reviewers, thee second level goes to the top 25%, and
the third level to the top 50%. Under this scheme, if fifty people
casted votes, then the five who cast the most votes would get the first
level. The next 7 (25% of 50 = 12 - 5 at previous level) would get to
use the second level award banner, and the thirteen after that would
get to use the third level of banner. The more people who vote the more
people at each award level. Capische?

These are definitely things worth thinking about. I'm all for anything
that gets people to cast more votes.


> Go, Dreamflower!
>

What she said. Well done, Dreamflower.

Marta


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 4977

Re: Woo-hoo! Posted by MarigoldCotton@aol.com July 26, 2005 - 1:41:08 Topic ID# 4970
>Marta wrote:I was envisioning something similar to the
>banners I have seen used in conjunction with Marigold's >challenges. Mari, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't your >authors get to use one LJ icon when they have written a certain >number of stories, a different icon when they reach the next >level, and so-on? This idea would be a non-competitive way to >recognise prolific reviewers.

Yes, that is right. There is a choice of two different icons for authors for each individual Challenge just for participating, and there are also special banners for authors reaching various levels of participation.

There are also reward icons for reviewers, beginning at 25 reviews and going up from there.

Here is the link to the Challenge Reward site if anyone wants to take a look. Disregard the instructions for claiming an icon or banner, as I trust folks to just take what they are entitled to.

http://home.comcast.net/~sommos/star.htm

Hugs,

Mari




--
Marigold's Red Book
http://marigold.tolkienshire.com

Marigold's Recommendations Page
http://www.geocities.com/marigoldsrecommendations/

Marigold's Live Journal
http://www.livejournal.com/users/marigoldg/

Tales of The Red Book
http://www.livejournal.com/users/talesofredbook/




There, peeping among the cloud-wrack above a dark tor high up in the mountains, Sam saw a white star twinkle for a while. The beauty of it smote his heart, as he looked up out of the forsaken land, and hope returned to him. For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty forever beyond its reach.
>
>Sam, in Mordor, RoTK

Msg# 4978

Re: Woo-hoo! Posted by Marta Layton July 26, 2005 - 12:11:39 Topic ID# 4970
On 26 Jul 2005, at 02:40, MarigoldCotton@aol.com wrote:

> >Marta wrote:I was envisioning something similar to the
> >banners I have seen used in conjunction with Marigold's >challenges.
> Mari, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't your >authors get to use one
> LJ icon when they have written a certain >number of stories, a
> different icon when they reach the next >level, and so-on? This idea
> would be a non-competitive way to >recognise prolific reviewers.
>
> Yes, that is right. There is a choice of two different icons for
> authors for each individual Challenge just for participating, and
> there are also special banners for authors reaching various levels of
> participation.
>
> There are also reward icons for reviewers, beginning at 25 reviews
> and going up from there.
>
> Here is the link to the Challenge Reward site if anyone wants to take
> a look. Disregard the instructions for claiming an icon or banner, as
> I trust folks to just take what they are entitled to.
>
> http://home.comcast.net/~sommos/star.htm
>
> Hugs,
>
> Mari
>
>

Thanks for confirming that, Mari. So much has been going on since you
explained it to me, that I wasn't sure I was remembering it correctly.

Marta


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Msg# 4979

Another problem story Posted by Ainaechoiriel July 27, 2005 - 10:32:32 Topic ID# 4979
The Healer's Choice (Story details)
http://www.fanfiction.net/s/1981923/1/
(Story: Short Story) Rating: PG-13
Award Category:Books/Time: Post-Ring War
Story Summary: Legolas was hurt in battle, but when Aragorn tries to heal
him, Legolas won't let him. What then is the healer's choice? Will he take
control and heal his friend, or will he let Legolas have his way?


No 1.: This is not a short story. There's no way anyone can convince me
that a 13+ chapter story is a short story. Even leaving this at an author's
discretion....it was about word count. We can quibble until the cows come
home about whether 25000 or 30000 words make a short story. We generally
will not quibble about anyting over 2 chapters being one.

If you guys ever want me to reconsider length as a categorization point,
things like this have to stop happening. First there was the 21 chapter
short story which I rolled my eyes at. Then there's this. This is a story
on my infamous spreadsheet. I've been following it's progress. It's not
short! And....

No. 2.: It's not even complete!

This should be in an Incomplete category. It should say "Incomplete" in the
summary information. An Author Liaisson should probably have caught this. I
will be changing this story's information and it's category.

And somehow this author ended up with 2 accounts. 1 was a nominator and
MEFA member. The other was an Author. I will be asking Anthony to help me
consolidate this one. At present, I have moved MEFA membership to the
Author account. Only Nominator and any reviews need to be moved from the
other and then it can be deleted.

--Ainaechoiriel
MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

<http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa> http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The
Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards

Blog: <http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com/>
http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com



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Msg# 4980

Re: Another problem story Posted by Naresha July 27, 2005 - 10:51:58 Topic ID# 4979
*sigh* This is getting out of hand isn't it?
Methinks we do need to do something about it!
Perhaps next year we can have the drop down menu
for story types include word count? Or perhaps
have a slightly different system - albeit more
complicated one - that is say perhaps:

Drabble
Poem
Non-Fiction
Story *opens up to a field where the word count
can be inserted and it is automatically
determined what sort of story it is*

Or something like that where it isn't left up to
nominator discretion. Or else all the liasons
have to be 110% times more vigiliant and check
every story! :-P But I don't see that happening
any time soon given RL time constraints that we
all suffer!

Resha, who really should be getting some sleep.

~To forgive calls upon our love, to forget calls upon our strength~

AIM: Naresha21 MSN: candyman_gypsy@hotmail.com
ICQ: 142117881 Yahoo: fruitcake5m1
Personal LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/nareshaninya/
Writing LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/writingsofresha/

My Website! Slash Me Happy
http://www.websamba.com/SlashMeHappy

http://quiz.ravenblack.net/blood.pl?biter=Resha



____________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Photos: Now with unlimited storage
http://au.photos.yahoo.com

Msg# 4981

concerning story lengths Posted by Marta Layton July 27, 2005 - 13:27:18 Topic ID# 4981
I see that there's some discussion about the story length system, and I
agree that it needs to be reworked. So I'm going to put my $.02 out
there.

Personally, I feel that word counts are restrictive and confusing. Most
authors know when their story has crossed the line from a short story
to something longer, but they may be. Therefore I suggest that we do
the following (if it's technically feasible).

1. The author categorises the story as of short, medium, or long
length. No word counts / chapter count suggestions given. The author
knows what they and the people who usually read their typeof stories
consider long, medium, or short.

2. Once the author has selected a general length then they can get more
specific. There should be a second drop-down menu that is based on the
selection in (1) above.

--> Short: Drabble, Drabble Series, Ficlet, Vignette, Poem, n/a (choose
"n/a" if it is not one of these things.

--> Medium: No choices. I don't think we need to divide further here.

--> Long: Novel, Epic, n/a

3. There is a text field where the author can enter any other notes
they desire. They can enter word counts, chapter counts, or just
general descriptions pertaining to the length. This is optional.

You'll notice that I said the author should be providing this
information. The more I worked with the system we have this year, the
more I think that nominators only need to provide the barest of
information, i.e., Story, URL, summary, author name, and author email.
I know several authors have commented that they felt so honoured by the
nomination that they did not feel comfortable changing the information.
I think people will be more comfortable (and we will get better
information therefore) if the author provides the other information,
instead of having to say someone else was incorrect.

On not providing suggested word limits -- not only does this vary from
fandom to fandom, but between different parts of the fandom. I noticed
recently in another Yahoo groups that my definition of drabble and
ficlet varied pretty radically from the other authors in this group.
Why? I think it's because I traditionally write about Men where this
was an elf-centric group. And Tolkien provides us with a wealth of
background information about Men at the time of the Ring War, whereas
with many of the Elves he's more sketchy.

This means that, if I'm writing about Faramir's and Boromir's
childhood, I don't have to write some of the major events of their
lives because it's canonical; if someone has read the books they
already know that their mother died when they were ten and five
respectively, and that they had cousins in Dol Amroth, and that Gandalf
and Saruman probably visited at some points in their childhood. Whereas
with Elves there are whole stretches of their life for which there is
precious little canon information. What (if anything) happened to Mrs.
Thranduil, and did Legolas have any brothers and sisters? What was
Pippin's home life like before he joined the Conspiracy? Because
there's less written in canon, the fanfic author has to provide more of
the details.

The point is, for me as a writer who grew up in the Gondor corner of
the fandom, I would never label anything more than 500 words as a
ficlet. Even 500 is pushing it. But on this elf-centric list most of
the people use ficlet to describe stories in the 500-1,000 word range.
I think the authors know how people who generally read their type of
story use the term, and if we leave it up to them they'll provide
decent information.

Marta
*****
Si hoc legere scis numium eruditionis habes

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Msg# 4982

Re: concerning story lengths Posted by sulriel July 27, 2005 - 13:46:59 Topic ID# 4981
--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, Marta Layton <melayton@g...> wrote:
> I see that there's some discussion about the story length system,
and I > agree that it needs to be reworked. So I'm going to put my
$.02 out > there.
>
> Personally, I feel that word counts are restrictive and confusing.
Most > authors know when their story has crossed the line from a
short story > to something longer, but they may be. Therefore I
suggest that we do > the following (if it's technically feasible).


I think that first we need to define *why* they need to be
categorized.

Is it simply to allow the reader to budge their time?
If so, I suggest going with word count.

If it is to define sub-genre, plot arch and complexity of sub-plot,
then I agree that other considers come into play and it is much more
subjective.

- until we decide 'why' - ...in what way we're dividing them, and
for what reason, we're talking about apples and puppies. Both are
sweet and moist, and I suppose you could make a pie out of either...
apples do grow fur, but you can see how some of these tests would put
one or the other in an inappropriate category.

Sulriel

Msg# 4983

Re: concerning story lengths Posted by Marta Layton July 27, 2005 - 13:58:14 Topic ID# 4981
On 27 Jul 2005, at 14:46, sulriel wrote:

> --- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, Marta Layton <melayton@g...> wrote:
> > I see that there's some discussion about the story length system,
> and I > agree that it needs to be reworked. So I'm going to put my
> $.02 out > there.
> >
> > Personally, I feel that word counts are restrictive and confusing.
> Most > authors know when their story has crossed the line from a
> short story > to something longer, but they may be. Therefore I
> suggest that we do > the following (if it's technically feasible).
>
>
> I think that first we need to define *why* they need to be
> categorized.
>
> Is it simply to allow the reader to budge their time?
> If so, I suggest going with word count.
>
> If it is to define sub-genre, plot arch and complexity of sub-plot,
> then I agree that other considers come into play and it is much more
> subjective.
>
> - until we decide 'why' - ...in what way we're dividing them, and
> for what reason, we're talking about apples and puppies. Both are
> sweet and moist, and I suppose you could make a pie out of either...
> apples do grow fur, but you can see how some of these tests would put
> one or the other in an inappropriate category.
>
> Sulriel
>
>

Fair enough. I do see your point.

Personally I think story length should be used for categorisation. Why?
Because of how I vote. I have reviewed two pieces that were longer than
short story length -- and something like twenty times that amount, at
least, that were short story or shorter. It's just my personal
interest, but I know that I don't have the attention span for most
longer pieces, whereas I will like shorter pieces. It's a really rare
longer piece that I will even start, let alone finish.

What does this mean for a category where there are two novels and ten
shorter pieces? I will most likely read the shorter pieces and vote for
the ones I like (usually between three and seven points, depending on
how much I like the piece) -- but the longer pieces won't get any votes
from me. Not because they're not good, but because I won't have read
them. When I did my categories the first thing I did was I pulled the
"novellas", "novels", and "epics" off and created a "Long Form"
subcategory if there were enough. (In one of my categories there was;
in one there wasn't.)

Others may of course feel differently. ;-)

Marta
*****
Si hoc legere scis numium eruditionis habes


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Msg# 4984

Re: concerning story lengths Posted by sulriel July 27, 2005 - 14:09:25 Topic ID# 4981
--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, Marta Layton <melayton@g...> wrote:
>
> On 27 Jul 2005, at 14:46, sulriel wrote:> > > --- In
MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, Marta Layton <melayton@g...> wrote:
> > > I see that there's some discussion about the story length
system,> > and I > agree that it needs to be reworked. So I'm going
to put my> > $.02 out > there. > >> > > Personally, I feel that
word counts are restrictive and confusing.> > Most > authors know
when their story has crossed the line from a> > short story > to
something longer, but they may be. Therefore I> > suggest that we do
> the following (if it's technically feasible).
> >
> >> > I think that first we need to define *why* they need to be
> > categorized.
> >> > > > - until we decide 'why' - ...in what way we're dividing
them, and> > for what reason, we're talking about apples and
puppies.

> Personally I think story length should be used for categorisation.
Why? > Because of how I vote. I have reviewed two pieces that were
longer than > short story length -- and something like twenty times
that amount, at > least, that were short story or shorter. It's just
my personal > interest, but I know that I don't have the attention
span for most > longer pieces, whereas I will like shorter pieces.
It's a really rare > longer piece that I will even start, let alone
finish.


Time is an issue for me, and I'm much more likely to start and finish
a short work than a long one. I'm making notes and once I'm through
the first wave of "can do's" -that is the shorter works that I can
read and comment in one sitting, I'll go back and start working on
the longer ones. I know it's not 'fair', but it's the best I can do,
and at least I am getting some reviews done each week.

For that reason, mainly, I'd suggest going with a word count
categorization so the longer works would only be competeing against
each other, rather than being in a category with the shorter - one
shot - works that more people will be reading , - or reading first.

Sulriel

Msg# 4985

Re: concerning story lengths Posted by sulriel July 27, 2005 - 14:19:32 Topic ID# 4981
--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, Marta Layton <melayton@g...> wrote:
>
> On 27 Jul 2005, at 14:46, sulriel wrote:> > > --- In
MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, Marta Layton <melayton@g...> wrote:
> > > I see that there's some discussion about the story length
system,> > and I > agree that it needs to be reworked. So I'm going
to put my> > $.02 out > there. > >> > > Personally, I feel that
word counts are restrictive and confusing.> > Most > authors know
when their story has crossed the line from a> > short story > to
something longer, but they may be. Therefore I> > suggest that we do
> the following (if it's technically feasible).
> >
> >> > I think that first we need to define *why* they need to be
> > categorized.
> >> > > > - until we decide 'why' - ...in what way we're dividing
them, and> > for what reason, we're talking about apples and
puppies.

> Personally I think story length should be used for categorisation.
Why? > Because of how I vote. I have reviewed two pieces that were
longer than > short story length -- and something like twenty times
that amount, at > least, that were short story or shorter. It's just
my personal > interest, but I know that I don't have the attention
span for most > longer pieces, whereas I will like shorter pieces.
It's a really rare > longer piece that I will even start, let alone
finish.


Time is an issue for me, and I'm much more likely to start and finish
a short work than a long one. I'm making notes and once I'm through
the first wave of "can do's" -that is the shorter works that I can
read and comment in one sitting, I'll go back and start working on
the longer ones. I know it's not 'fair', but it's the best I can do,
and at least I am getting some reviews done each week.

For that reason, mainly, I'd suggest going with a word count
categorization so the longer works would only be competeing against
each other, rather than being in a category with the shorter - one
shot - works that more people will be reading , - or reading first.

Sulriel

Msg# 4986

Re: concerning story lengths Posted by ghettoelleth@aol.com July 27, 2005 - 14:23:51 Topic ID# 4981
My 2 cents as an author. There's nothing more challenging than writing a
fully developed full-length fiction. If I were the author of a full length
completed fic and found my competition to be a story of only several chapters,
whether a completed short story, or a wip, which my own happens to be, I think
I'd have to question the equity of comparing them. The same goes for a
short story being held up against a wip. WIPs, imho, are really nothing more
than a promising beginning and should be judged on that merit. It is much
easier to write ten chapters of character development and set up an interesting
premise than it is to actually deliver a plot intriguing enough to carry a
story through to a satisfying conclusion. Though I whole heartedly hope that my
WIP succeeds in accomplishing these goals, I don't think I should be allowed
on the porch with the big dogs until I've proven myself capable of walking
the walk. Just an opinion, I could be wrong.
GE


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Msg# 4987

Re: concerning story lengths Posted by Marta Layton July 27, 2005 - 14:31:18 Topic ID# 4981
On 27 Jul 2005, at 15:07, sulriel wrote:
> Time is an issue for me, and I'm much more likely to start and finish
> a short work than a long one. I'm making notes and once I'm through
> the first wave of "can do's" -that is the shorter works that I can
> read and comment in one sitting, I'll go back and start working on
> the longer ones. I know it's not 'fair', but it's the best I can do,
> and at least I am getting some reviews done each week.
>

Time is also a consideration for me, Sulriel. Even if I liked longer
stories I would still get to less of them. And like you, I'm also doing
my "best" -- I think we all are. Please, no one feel bad because they
aren't able to review every story.

> For that reason, mainly, I'd suggest going with a word count
> categorization so the longer works would only be competeing against
> each other, rather than being in a category with the shorter - one
> shot - works that more people will be reading , - or reading first.
>

I think that the length should be the first thing we look at when
creating subcategories. If I help again next year that will certainly
be the first thing I look at.

While I'm thinking about categorisation, here's another thing I've had
mentioned to me a few times. Some of the subcategories are
counter-intuitive. What exactly is the difference between
"Rohan/Romance" and "Romance/Rohan"? I personally think things would be
simpler all around if we cut down on the number of categories.

Have the author select at least one genre, one book/time, and one
races/places category. Then sort into categories based on *one* of
those things not all three like we do now. If for instance we put all
of the romances in one category we could then make appropriate
subcategories based on length and on the other two suggested categories
(races/places, book/times).

The only problem with this idea that I can foresee is what to do with
one of the mandatory subcategories where there aren't enough to make it
viable. Let's say there are only four adventure WIPs nominated. Then we
go back to the author with a choice: choose another category, or
withdraw it. If the author chooses to withdraw the nomination it will
be eligible again next year.

I seriously doubt this will be a problem with the main categories. None
of those were inviable this year, and I think this would be even less
of a problem if we had fewer categories.

I'll bring this idea back up in the post-mortem, but I thought I'd
mention it now so people can be thinking about it.

Marta
*****
Si hoc legere scis numium eruditionis habes


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Msg# 4988

Re: concerning story lengths Posted by sulriel July 27, 2005 - 14:36:15 Topic ID# 4981
--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, ghettoelleth@a... wrote:
> My 2 cents as an author. There's nothing more challenging than
writing a > fully developed full-length fiction. If I were the
author of a full length > completed fic and found my competition to
be a story of only several chapters, > whether a completed short
story, or a wip, which my own happens to be, I think > I'd have to
question the equity of comparing them. The same goes for a > short
story being held up against a wip. WIPs, imho, are really nthing
more > than a promising beginning and should be judged on that
merit. It is much > easier to write ten chapters of character
development and set up an interesting > premise than it is to
actually deliver a plot intriguing enough to carry a > story through
to a satisfying conclusion. Though I whole heartedly hope that my
> WIP succeeds in accomplishing these goals, I don't think I should
be allowed > on the porch with the big dogs until I've proven myself
capable of walking > the walk. Just an opinion, I could be wrong.
> GE


no. IMO, you're not wrong, these are some of those other
considerations I was thinking about.

It seems to take a different skillset to compress character
development and plot in a short story, than it does to maintain
consistancy, show growth, weave subplots and tie up loose ends in a
novel length work. -while these things are more difficult to
categorize than a strict word count, ...word count should get most
of them in the ball park.

...I have some pretty strong ideas (and ideals) plotting related to
word count, but I'll step off my soapbox before I get excited and
start blathering and jumping around and end up falling and breaking
my neck.

Msg# 4989

Re: concerning story lengths Posted by Marta Layton July 27, 2005 - 14:38:18 Topic ID# 4981
Hi Ghettoelleth,

On 27 Jul 2005, at 15:22, ghettoelleth@aol.com wrote:

> My 2 cents as an author. There's nothing more challenging than
> writing a
> fully developed full-length fiction. If I were the author of a full
> length
> completed fic and found my competition to be a story of only several
> chapters,
> whether a completed short story, or a wip, which my own happens to
> be, I think
> I'd have to question the equity of comparing them. The same goes
> for a
> short story being held up against a wip. WIPs, imho, are really
> nothing more
> than a promising beginning and should be judged on that merit. It
> is much
> easier to write ten chapters of character development and set up an
> interesting
> premise than it is to actually deliver a plot intriguing enough to
> carry a
> story through to a satisfying conclusion. Though I whole heartedly
> hope that my
> WIP succeeds in accomplishing these goals, I don't think I should be
> allowed
> on the porch with the big dogs until I've proven myself capable of
> walking
> the walk. Just an opinion, I could be wrong.
> GE
>

I certainly see what you're saying here. In my opinion there's nothing
as challenging as telling a complete and engaging story in a short
number of words, but that's a point that's open to debate. I think we
both would agree there are different challenges with both, and that
comparing a 5,000-piece story to a 50,000 word story is like comparing
apples to orranges.

Just to be clear, though -- WIPs are already in their own subcategory.
There are three mandatory subcategories: drabbles, poetry, and WIPs.
This means that a drabble will only be competing against all the other
drabbles in that category, and similarly for WIPs and poetry. If there
aren't enough drabbles in a category, we move stories around until we
can make viable categories.

I still say it's not a good situation when you have novel-length things
running against vignettes. This is doubly the case when ficlets (often
double- and tripple-drabbles, stories of exactly 200 and 300 words) are
in the same category with novels. That's just not right, IMO. :-)

Thanks for your thoughts. It's great to hear what other folks think.

Out of curiosity, what do you (and Sulriel and anyone else) think of my
suggestion to have nominators provide only the basic information, and
to have authors provide the rest?

Marta
*****
Si hoc legere scis numium eruditionis habes


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Msg# 4990

Re: concerning story lengths Posted by sulriel July 27, 2005 - 14:54:52 Topic ID# 4981
--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, Marta Layton <melayton@g...> wrote:
>.> > Out of curiosity, what do you (and Sulriel and anyone else)
think of my > suggestion to have nominators provide only the basic
information, and > to have authors provide the rest?
>


<drags out well-worn soapbox and climbs back on>

Personally - and I know it won't happen, I'm just establishing 'where
I'm coming from' - I think that contests should be author self-
nominated. I've heard all the debate and don't mean to open that
here, but that's my personal feeling on the matter.

There are a couple of other issues, I'll try to address without too
much rambling.

1. I think the nominator should provide a story title, URL and author
contact information.

2. it should generate an automatic mail that will tell the author:

"You been nominated, we need you to:
- verify eligibility
- provide categorization information and choices"

You must provide this information prior to 'cut-off' date.

*then* under those couple of lines, explain who/what the MEFAs are.

I found myself in a quandary last year - because I strongly believe in
self-motivation and think if an author doesn't have enough desire to
participate that they can click a couple of links, ...well, I'd rather
give my votes to someone who's going to be more excited about it.

but to use an example, I'd talked to BarrowWight about it beforehand
and knew he was excited and wanted to participate, etc. .... but I
finally got out of him that the congratulation email was so long and
involved that it got shuffled and forgotten. He works 60-70 hours a
week (business owner in the technical service industry), plus goes to
school full time, plus has a large family. The mail came to him at
the office, it couldn't be handled in a glance and so got shuffled
behind the things that he needed to get done to keep his paycheck
coming. It doesn't mean it's less important to him, it mean's he's
mature enough to define priorities, but somewhat overworked and
forgetful of things that don't nudge him.

so all this long mail means - yes -, I think the authors should be
more involved in the choices, but I think that it needs to be
simplified for them. ..click on a link and make a couple of choice. -
I don't know what's possible with the database, but I think that would
help with both the categorization and the response percents.

Msg# 4991

Re: concerning story lengths Posted by ghettoelleth@aol.com July 27, 2005 - 15:01:25 Topic ID# 4981
In a message dated 7/27/2005 12:38:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
melayton@gmail.com writes:

Out of curiosity, what do you (and Sulriel and anyone else) think of my
suggestion to have nominators provide only the basic information, and
to have authors provide the rest?



Well, on several levels, I think its probably a good idea and perhaps could
be taken even a step further. Since the voting is all done anonymously,
maybe the nominations should be anonymous as well. This way when an author
provides all their own information including synopsis, etc. the fic does not appear
to be endorsed by anyone save for some anonymous elector. Like it or not,
fair or not, I believe most people are influenced by the opinions of friends
and those we admire, and knowing who nominated a fic may have a profound
impact on the judging. On a more organic level, it just makes sense, especially
for people who nominate a lot of fics, to have the authors work it out on
their own. I mean, if we can manage a chapter, we can manage to fill out the
form and figure, honestly, where our stories fit in, category-wise. Judging by
today's conversation alone, a lot of thought has gone into creating the
categories and it requires a rather intimate knowledge of one's own work to decide
where it should be placed. Frankly, I don't know how you guys keep track of
your voting beyond the drabbles let alone running this puppy. I'm really
knew to the whole fanfic world and have been rather overwhelmed, afraid to mess
someone up by doing the wrong thing. I just keep reading the e-mails and
pray that when I'm ready to post reviews, I've grasped the concept clearly.
And kudos to your programmer guy, I'd be in a coma by now.
Jes


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 4992

Re: concerning story lengths Posted by aelfwina@cableone.net July 27, 2005 - 15:13:34 Topic ID# 4981
Personally, I love long epic-length stories--*but* so far there are only *two* in the MEFAs this year that I have reviewed that I did not read previously. The other long ones I reviewed I had already read, and only needed to skim a bit to refresh my memory. Like everyone else, I am going by the time I have to spend, and so of course, am targetting the shorter ones first. I *have* read and reviewed some of the "shorter" long stories--10 chapters or less.

I think word count would be useful in the story information. A word count in the story details, for example would give a good idea of the time it would take to read.

But for categorization purposes, I think that they should be divided up with such things as vignettes, ficlets and short stories (which I would say would be four or five chapters or less) as short form; then novellas, say six to twenty chapters, and finally novels and epics as anything over twenty chapters. Drabbles, I think, should still remain seperate, as drabbles, like poetry, have their own particular constraints.

I think that this division should probably be done at the sub-category level rather than the main category, but that is just MPO, and not necessarily a very strongly held one.

Another concern I have for next year, as far as reading time goes: this year's noms were double last year's--if the trend continues, next year we'll have close to 2,500 nominations, and the year after that...

Just post-mortem fodder...

Dreamflower
(Barbara)
----- Original Message -----
From: Marta Layton
To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: [MEFAwards] Re: concerning story lengths


I certainly see what you're saying here. In my opinion there's nothing
as challenging as telling a complete and engaging story in a short
number of words, but that's a point that's open to debate. I think we
both would agree there are different challenges with both, and that
comparing a 5,000-piece story to a 50,000 word story is like comparing
apples to orranges.

Just to be clear, though -- WIPs are already in their own subcategory.
There are three mandatory subcategories: drabbles, poetry, and WIPs.
This means that a drabble will only be competing against all the other
drabbles in that category, and similarly for WIPs and poetry. If there
aren't enough drabbles in a category, we move stories around until we
can make viable categories.

I still say it's not a good situation when you have novel-length things
running against vignettes. This is doubly the case when ficlets (often
double- and tripple-drabbles, stories of exactly 200 and 300 words) are
in the same category with novels. That's just not right, IMO. :-)

Thanks for your thoughts. It's great to hear what other folks think.

Out of curiosity, what do you (and Sulriel and anyone else) think of my
suggestion to have nominators provide only the basic information, and
to have authors provide the rest?

Marta
*****
Si hoc legere scis numium eruditionis habes


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Msg# 4993

Re: concerning story lengths Posted by Marta Layton July 27, 2005 - 15:20:27 Topic ID# 4981
On 27 Jul 2005, at 15:54, sulriel wrote:

>
> --- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, Marta Layton <melayton@g...> wrote:
> >.> > Out of curiosity, what do you (and Sulriel and anyone else)
> think of my > suggestion to have nominators provide only the basic
> information, and > to have authors provide the rest?
> >
>
>
> <drags out well-worn soapbox and climbs back on>
>

Soap boxes are good. When we start building forts and entrenching in
positions, then we have a problem. But I'm all for hearing what people
think. :-)

> 1. I think the nominator should provide a story title, URL and author
> contact information.
>

I had proposed that the nominator also provide the summary, because I
think it would simplify things for the author (I would have to go look
up a summary at an archive, or write a new one). This isn't a crucial
point for me, though. If we think authors should provide the summary
I'm okay with that. I certainly agree on the rest of what you say the
nominator should provide.

> 2. it should generate an automatic mail that will tell the author:
>
> "You been nominated, we need you to:
> - verify eligibility
> - provide categorization information and choices"
>

For technical reasons I don't think the website can automtically send
emails. What it does now is it has a page for each story, with the text
of the email and a link to the author's email address. So a human has
to go in, copy the email from the webpage, click on the link, paste it
in an email, and hit send.

I do agree about the format, though. The email needs to be shorter than
it is now, with a clear statement of needs at the top. I think it will
help if we provide specific hyperlinks to webpages for more
information. That way the story's author can get a feel for what's
required of them at a glance, then go read the links if they need more
information

> You must provide this information prior to 'cut-off' date.
>

Oh yes, excellent idea. This gives closure to the whole process; it
lets us admins know "we can move on, this person isn't interested.

<snip>
> I found myself in a quandary last year - because I strongly believe in
> self-motivation and think if an author doesn't have enough desire to
> participate that they can click a couple of links, ...well, I'd rather
> give my votes to someone who's going to be more excited about it.
>

I understand where you're coming from on this. I think there are a lot
of authors out there who do first-rate work but are shy about
nominating themselves for awards. Or they just may not know about the
MEFAs. That's why I don't want to go to just self-nomination.

However. I agree with you that self-motivation is important, so I think
that we should rely on the authors more. Once their story has been
nominated and they know about the awards, the ball is in their court.
If they want the story to compete they should meet the admins half-way.

<snip>
> so all this long mail means - yes -, I think the authors should be
> more involved in the choices, but I think that it needs to be
> simplified for them. ..click on a link and make a couple of choice. -
> I don't know what's possible with the database, but I think that would
> help with both the categorization and the response percents.
>

I like your example of BarrowWight; it's a good one. And I do agree
that things need to be as simple as possible.

Just to be clear - which of the following two systems would you find
easier.

#1. Author Alice's story has been nominated. I (as her author liaison)
send her an email with a link to the website, where she can log in and
add the appropriate information. If she has questions or needs help she
can email me.

#2. Author Alice's story has been nominated. I send her an email with
the name of the story that has been nominated, and a list of the
information I need. She replies back to me with the information and I
enter it into the system for her.

Personally as an author liaison I would prefer system #2, as I can
guide the author through it more. It lets me address any questions they
have more easily, and it lets me spot if they aren't doing something
right. For example, if an author isn't sure whether a certain piece is
a ficlet or a vignette, in system 1 she would probably enter her best
guess, whereas in system 2 she's more likely to say "I think it's a
ficlet but I'm not sure- here's the situation- what do you think?

However, I'm all for whatever will be simplest for the author. What are
your thoughts?

Marta
*****
Si hoc legere scis numium eruditionis habes


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 4994

Re: concerning story lengths Posted by ghettoelleth@aol.com July 27, 2005 - 15:33:02 Topic ID# 4981
In a message dated 7/27/2005 1:21:07 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
melayton@gmail.com writes:

Personally as an author liaison I would prefer system #2, as I can
guide the author through it more. It lets me address any questions they
have more easily, and it lets me spot if they aren't doing something
right. For example, if an author isn't sure whether a certain piece is
a ficlet or a vignette, in system 1 she would probably enter her best
guess, whereas in system 2 she's more likely to say "I think it's a
ficlet but I'm not sure- here's the situation- what do you think?
I would never nominate myself, it just leaves a funny taste in my mouth and
frankly, I still don't know how I got here. Beyond that a nominee should be
honored, regardless, and either accept or decline to do what is asked of
them, graciously.

However, I'm all for whatever will be simplest for the author. What are
your thoughts?


You know, I just don't hear this often enough around the castle. I'm
posting this on my refrigerator. After I blow it up to a 1,342 pt font. :D
jes


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 4995

Another problem Posted by Ainaechoiriel July 27, 2005 - 15:39:56 Topic ID# 4995
Underdogs in Middle-earth.

It's on Suite101. Anyone know if the author got paid for it? We already
made some stories by anotehr author inelegible because they were profic. I
really hope this one isn't. I'd have to wrestle with this so late in the
game.

Story URL in question: http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/tolkien/112016

--Ainaechoiriel
MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

<http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa> http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The
Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards

Blog: <http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com/>
http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 4996

Re: concerning story lengths Posted by aelfwina@cableone.net July 27, 2005 - 15:47:22 Topic ID# 4981
I do think the notification email should be shorter and simpler, with, as you said, the crucial information at the top, most *particularly* the cut-off date. This lets the author know that if they wish to participate, they cannot dally. My only worry about this is that sometimes emails go astray. (I know a couple of my notifications got caught in my spam filter for example.)

I am of two minds about self-nomination. I am not real comfortable myself with the idea of nominating my own stuff--I figure that if it really deserves an award, then someone besides myself is sure to notice. That said, I was at one point tempted to nominate a couple of my lesser noticed stories just for the feedback. I ended up not doing it mainly because I was waiting to see if someone else would nom them instead, and then it was too late.

I do not like the idea of anonymous nominations. I liked knowing *who* nominated my stories, and am comfortable with others knowing the stories *I* placed in nomination. As to being "influenced" by *who* nominated something, I don't think so. I rarely even pay attention to who the nominator is when I read the story. About the only time is if I don't care for the story, I may go back and check afterwards. I think that has only been about 3 times out of all the stories I've read.

As for your two suggestions: I would say that #2 is my preference as well. The author liaison presumably will know the system better, and for first-time nominees it might be a bit intimidating to be told to navigate the system alone.

Dreamflower
(Barbara)
----- Original Message -----
From: Marta Layton
To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: [MEFAwards] Re: concerning story lengths



On 27 Jul 2005, at 15:54, sulriel wrote:

>
> --- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, Marta Layton <melayton@g...> wrote:
> >.> > Out of curiosity, what do you (and Sulriel and anyone else)
> think of my > suggestion to have nominators provide only the basic
> information, and > to have authors provide the rest?
> >
>
>
> <drags out well-worn soapbox and climbs back on>
>

Soap boxes are good. When we start building forts and entrenching in
positions, then we have a problem. But I'm all for hearing what people
think. :-)

> 1. I think the nominator should provide a story title, URL and author
> contact information.
>

I had proposed that the nominator also provide the summary, because I
think it would simplify things for the author (I would have to go look
up a summary at an archive, or write a new one). This isn't a crucial
point for me, though. If we think authors should provide the summary
I'm okay with that. I certainly agree on the rest of what you say the
nominator should provide.

> 2. it should generate an automatic mail that will tell the author:
>
> "You been nominated, we need you to:
> - verify eligibility
> - provide categorization information and choices"
>

For technical reasons I don't think the website can automtically send
emails. What it does now is it has a page for each story, with the text
of the email and a link to the author's email address. So a human has
to go in, copy the email from the webpage, click on the link, paste it
in an email, and hit send.

I do agree about the format, though. The email needs to be shorter than
it is now, with a clear statement of needs at the top. I think it will
help if we provide specific hyperlinks to webpages for more
information. That way the story's author can get a feel for what's
required of them at a glance, then go read the links if they need more
information

> You must provide this information prior to 'cut-off' date.
>

Oh yes, excellent idea. This gives closure to the whole process; it
lets us admins know "we can move on, this person isn't interested.

<snip>
> I found myself in a quandary last year - because I strongly believe in
> self-motivation and think if an author doesn't have enough desire to
> participate that they can click a couple of links, ...well, I'd rather
> give my votes to someone who's going to be more excited about it.
>

I understand where you're coming from on this. I think there are a lot
of authors out there who do first-rate work but are shy about
nominating themselves for awards. Or they just may not know about the
MEFAs. That's why I don't want to go to just self-nomination.

However. I agree with you that self-motivation is important, so I think
that we should rely on the authors more. Once their story has been
nominated and they know about the awards, the ball is in their court.
If they want the story to compete they should meet the admins half-way.

<snip>
> so all this long mail means - yes -, I think the authors should be
> more involved in the choices, but I think that it needs to be
> simplified for them. ..click on a link and make a couple of choice. -
> I don't know what's possible with the database, but I think that would
> help with both the categorization and the response percents.
>

I like your example of BarrowWight; it's a good one. And I do agree
that things need to be as simple as possible.

Just to be clear - which of the following two systems would you find
easier.

#1. Author Alice's story has been nominated. I (as her author liaison)
send her an email with a link to the website, where she can log in and
add the appropriate information. If she has questions or needs help she
can email me.

#2. Author Alice's story has been nominated. I send her an email with
the name of the story that has been nominated, and a list of the
information I need. She replies back to me with the information and I
enter it into the system for her.

Personally as an author liaison I would prefer system #2, as I can
guide the author through it more. It lets me address any questions they
have more easily, and it lets me spot if they aren't doing something
right. For example, if an author isn't sure whether a certain piece is
a ficlet or a vignette, in system 1 she would probably enter her best
guess, whereas in system 2 she's more likely to say "I think it's a
ficlet but I'm not sure- here's the situation- what do you think?

However, I'm all for whatever will be simplest for the author. What are
your thoughts?

Marta
*****
Si hoc legere scis numium eruditionis habes


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

a.. Visit your group "MEFAwards" on the web.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 4997

Re: concerning story lengths Posted by Ainaechoiriel July 27, 2005 - 15:55:46 Topic ID# 4981
Long story short:

I've read all these posts and am making my reply short in this one. Also,
we can hash this out more at post-mortem.

First, this post: I have to point out that voting isn't anonymous. Your
nickname will appear on your votes when Voting Season comes and the votes
are posted.

I don't mind the idea of nominations being anonymous. And I don't mind the
idea of making the nomination simplr and letting authors go to the web site
and fill in some more information. I like the idea actually. But I worry
about 2 things:

Will they? And will we still hit new authors that have never heard of us?

Possibly.

As for categorizing that is the biggest part of post-mortem, trust me! I
first provided the three topics because there are three different ways to
categorize. Some people see their stories as Elf stories. Some see them as
Silm stories. Some see them as Romance stories. Race, Book, Genre.

I do not generally like categorizing by length, as you may have guessed. I'm
fairly resistant to it, though you just might be wearing me down. ;-)
However, it won't be main categories no matter how we slice it. IF it's to
be done at all, it would be in sub or sub-sub.

Why not sub? Because I'd like to know the Elf story I'm looking at is a
Legolas story or not a Romance. I want to know something about the story
before I even care about it's length. It bothered me this year in the ASC
Awards that Archer/Reed slash was right in there with plain old
no-subcategory ENT General stories. I'd just rather steer clear whether
they were novels or drabbles.

Now, at first I said no sub-sub-categories, but had to lax that rule because
of the plethora of drabbles in some categories. I may look at relaxing that
to include other sub-categories than the default ones. And maybe we'll look
at making Drabble a sub-sub, too.

Don't bother with too much discussion about this now. Just mull it over for
the later.

--Ainaechoiriel
MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards

Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com



> -----Original Message-----
> From: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of ghettoelleth@aol.com
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 3:01 PM
> To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MEFAwards] Re: concerning story lengths
>
>
> In a message dated 7/27/2005 12:38:48 P.M. Pacific Standard
> Time, melayton@gmail.com writes:
>
> Out of curiosity, what do you (and Sulriel and anyone else)
> think of my suggestion to have nominators provide only the
> basic information, and to have authors provide the rest?
>
>
>
> Well, on several levels, I think its probably a good idea and
> perhaps could be taken even a step further. Since the
> voting is all done anonymously, maybe the nominations should
> be anonymous as well. This way when an author provides all
> their own information including synopsis, etc. the fic does
> not appear to be endorsed by anyone save for some anonymous
> elector. Like it or not, fair or not, I believe most people
> are influenced by the opinions of friends and those we
> admire, and knowing who nominated a fic may have a profound
> impact on the judging. On a more organic level, it just
> makes sense, especially for people who nominate a lot of
> fics, to have the authors work it out on their own. I mean,
> if we can manage a chapter, we can manage to fill out the
> form and figure, honestly, where our stories fit in,
> category-wise. Judging by today's conversation alone, a lot
> of thought has gone into creating the categories and it
> requires a rather intimate knowledge of one's own work to decide
> where it should be placed. Frankly, I don't know how you
> guys keep track of
> your voting beyond the drabbles let alone running this
> puppy. I'm really knew to the whole fanfic world and have
> been rather overwhelmed, afraid to mess someone up by doing
> the wrong thing. I just keep reading the e-mails and pray
> that when I'm ready to post reviews, I've grasped the
> concept clearly.
> And kudos to your programmer guy, I'd be in a coma by now.
> Jes
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Msg# 4998

Re: concerning story lengths Posted by Marta Layton July 27, 2005 - 15:59:45 Topic ID# 4981
Hi Jes,

Thanks for your thoughts! And everyone else's... I'm really enjoying
this.

> Well, on several levels, I think its probably a good idea and
> perhaps could
> be taken even a step further. Since the voting is all done
> anonymously,
> maybe the nominations should be anonymous as well. This way when an
> author
> provides all their own information including synopsis, etc. the fic
> does not appear
> to be endorsed by anyone save for some anonymous elector. Like it
> or not,
> fair or not, I believe most people are influenced by the opinions of
> friends
> and those we admire, and knowing who nominated a fic may have a
> profound
> impact on the judging.

I really like this idea, but in my case for a different reason. If I
had to choose between reading a story nominated by someone I knew well
and someone I didn't know well, I would probably go with the person I
know because I have some experience reading stories they have
recommended. Whether a person enjoys or doesn't enjoy a certain story
is to some degree subjective. Also, if the person who recommended it is
a "big name" and I end up not liking the story, I may think that I just
don't "get" what the author was saying, and so will give the author the
benefit of the doubt. Not a good habit, I know, but I don't think I'm
the only person who does this.

So yes, I think it's a good idea for the nominators to remain anonymous.

> On a more organic level, it just makes sense, especially
> for people who nominate a lot of fics, to have the authors work it
> out on
> their own. I mean, if we can manage a chapter, we can manage to
> fill out the
> form and figure, honestly, where our stories fit in, category-wise.

Yes, I certainly hope so! You can probably provide this information
better and more easily than the nominator can.

> Judging by
> today's conversation alone, a lot of thought has gone into creating
> the
> categories and it requires a rather intimate knowledge of one's own
> work to decide
> where it should be placed.

Perhaps I think about it more than most people. I'm the admin that
often answers all the questions of "how do I do this" or "why do you
guys do it this way" -- which means I think through these things so I
can provide a fair answer. And I am by personal inclination a number
cruncher.

But yes, I think it does require pretty intimate knowledge. And who
knows the piece better than the author?

> Frankly, I don't know how you guys keep track of
> your voting beyond the drabbles let alone running this puppy. I'm
> really
> knew to the whole fanfic world and have been rather overwhelmed,
> afraid to mess
> someone up by doing the wrong thing. I just keep reading the
> e-mails and
> pray that when I'm ready to post reviews, I've grasped the concept
> clearly.

See the above comment about me answering questions. If you have any
feel free to ask. Post them here if you like, or if you prefer email me
privately at melayton at gmail dot com.

> And kudos to your programmer guy, I'd be in a coma by now.

Oh, yes, Anthony's been brilliant.

Marta
*****
Si hoc legere scis numium eruditionis habes


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 4999

Re: concerning story lengths Posted by Marta Layton July 27, 2005 - 16:18:41 Topic ID# 4981
Hi Dreamflower,

On 28 Jul 2005, at 16:14, <aelfwina@cableone.net> wrote:

> Personally, I love long epic-length stories--*but* so far there are
> only *two* in the MEFAs this year that I have reviewed that I did not
> read previously. The other long ones I reviewed I had already read,
> and only needed to skim a bit to refresh my memory. Like everyone
> else, I am going by the time I have to spend, and so of course, am
> targetting the shorter ones first. I *have* read and reviewed some of
> the "shorter" long stories--10 chapters or less.
>

That makes a lot of sense. I'm sure everyone has their own preference,
and I don't want to get into splitting hairs over which more people
prefer. The key point to me is that some people prefer one form and
some people prefer other forms. And like you say, time available is a
major factor.

> I think word count would be useful in the story information. A word
> count in the story details, for example would give a good idea of the
> time it would take to read.
>

That's true. It would be nice to have an actual number that is not an
approximation (like having a story placed in novella, which you know is
supposed to be within a certain word range). But how do we handle cases
where no word count is known? Should this be an optional field, since
it's just for the reader's information and won't be used by the admins
to categorise?

> But for categorization purposes, I think that they should be divided
> up with such things as vignettes, ficlets and short stories (which I
> would say would be four or five chapters or less) as short form; then
> novellas, say six to twenty chapters, and finally novels and epics as
> anything over twenty chapters. Drabbles, I think, should still remain
> seperate, as drabbles, like poetry, have their own particular
> constraints.
>

I like the idea of using chapter numbers instead of word count for
categorisation purposes. And your scheme seems very reasonable. We can
hash this out in the post-mortem, but it's a good start.
]
> I think that this division should probably be done at the
> sub-category level rather than the main category, but that is just
> MPO, and not necessarily a very strongly held one.
>

Yes, definitely.. All of this is as a subcategory instead of a
category. At one point we considered making drabbles their own
category, but then we decided against it. I think that same reasoning
can be applied here.

> Another concern I have for next year, as far as reading time goes:
> this year's noms were double last year's--if the trend continues, next
> year we'll have close to 2,500 nominations, and the year after that...
>

I'm not sure that trend will continue. Presumably now people are
nominating not only the good stories from this year but also good ones
from previous years that weren't nominated before. Eventually (soon, I
think -- we may have hit it this year) we will reach a critical point
where we will have nominated most of the quality pieces from before the
awards started. I think in the future, the vast majority of nominations
will be from the last year, and so the numbers of nominations should be
smaller.

> Just post-mortem fodder...
>

Agreed. I am just putting some ideas out there for folks to think
about. No definite decisions will be made now, obviously. ;-) Just food
for thought.

Marta
*****
Si hoc legere scis numium eruditionis habes


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 5000

Re: concerning story lengths Posted by Marta Layton July 27, 2005 - 16:18:45 Topic ID# 4981
> However, I'm all for whatever will be simplest for the author. What
> are
> your thoughts?
>
>
> You know, I just don't hear this often enough around the castle. I'm
> posting this on my refrigerator. After I blow it up to a 1,342 pt
> font. :D
> jes
>

*snork* Glad you liked it!

Marta
*****
Si hoc legere scis numium eruditionis habes


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 5001

Re: concerning story lengths Posted by Marta Layton July 27, 2005 - 16:31:27 Topic ID# 4981
On 28 Jul 2005, at 16:48, <aelfwina@cableone.net> wrote:

> I do think the notification email should be shorter and simpler, with,
> as you said, the crucial information at the top,

I think most people who have posted today have agreed with you there.

> most *particularly* the cut-off date.

I really like the idea of a cut-off date. We didn't have one this year,
but I think it will help a lot.

> This lets the author know that if they wish to participate, they
> cannot dally. My only worry about this is that sometimes emails go
> astray. (I know a couple of my notifications got caught in my spam
> filter for example.)
>

Here's an idea. Let's say we give an author two weeks to at least touch
base with their liaison. (If they're still working with their liaison
on some of the story details, that's okay; but we need to at least have
heard from them.) If after two weeks the author has not contacted the
liaison, the liaison should email the nominator. For example,

*****
Dear [nominator],

According to our records you nominated [story] by [author].
Unfortunately, we have not yet been able to reach this author. We
cannot complete their nomination until we verify that they wish to
participate the awards, and until we receive some information from
them.

If you know how to reach this author, please ask her to contact me at
[liaison's email]. It's possible that my emails aren't getting through
to her for some reason. We can still finalise the stories and they can
still compete in this year's MEFAs if they can be done by the end of
nomination season, [date].

Thank you for your help,
[liaison]
*****

Or something like that.

<snip>
> I do not like the idea of anonymous nominations. I liked knowing
> *who* nominated my stories, and am comfortable with others knowing the
> stories *I* placed in nomination. As to being "influenced" by *who*
> nominated something, I don't think so. I rarely even pay attention to
> who the nominator is when I read the story. About the only time is if
> I don't care for the story, I may go back and check afterwards. I
> think that has only been about 3 times out of all the stories I've
> read.
>

Thanks for speaking up. It's good to know that there is some
disagreement here, because it means we need to discuss it further in
the post-mort.

Nominator anonymity is not something I feel that strongly about. While
I prefer for the nominator to be anonymous, I think I would be
basically comfortable either way.

> As for your two suggestions: I would say that #2 is my preference as
> well. The author liaison presumably will know the system better, and
> for first-time nominees it might be a bit intimidating to be told to
> navigate the system alone.
>

Yes, that's my feeling. One thing that caused a lot of delay this year
was that an author would make corrections, even note that they approved
of the nomination in the comment field, but the liaison wouldn't know
to finalise the nomination.

Whatever we decide, I think we need to be consistent. Either all
authors enter their information into the website and email their
liaison saying they've done so (system #1), or all authors email their
liaison the hinformation who then enters it into the website (stystem
#2).

Marta

PS- Barbara, I have your email about my Pippin vignettes. I haven't
forgotten about it and will try to get it soon. I was sidetracked by a
personal emergency in RL and am only now getting back to fandom things.
Thanks for your patience.

*****
Si hoc legere scis numium eruditionis habes


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 5002

Re: Another problem Posted by Marta Layton July 27, 2005 - 16:33:44 Topic ID# 4995
Hi Ainae,

On 27 Jul 2005, at 16:36, Ainaechoiriel wrote:

> Underdogs in Middle-earth.
>
> It's on Suite101. Anyone know if the author got paid for it? We
> already
> made some stories by anotehr author inelegible because they were
> profic. I
> really hope this one isn't. I'd have to wrestle with this so late in
> the
> game.
>
> Story URL in question:
> http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/tolkien/112016
>

Is this one of those by Michael Martinez? If so, we only left the ones
that he verified were not written for pay.

If it's not, I have no clue if he was paid for it or not. At this point
in the game I'm inclined to say let it run, and just be more stringent
about this next year. I really hope it's not an issue.

Marta
*****
Si hoc legere scis numium eruditionis habes


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 5003

Re: concerning story lengths Posted by Laura July 27, 2005 - 16:38:50 Topic ID# 4981
I know this is probably more of a post-mortem topic, but a few things popped up that perked my interest and I couldn't hold back on offering my 3 cents. (It's been adjusted for inflation. ;) )

-- <aelfwina@cableone.net> wrote:
>> I am of two minds about self-nomination. I am not real comfortable
>> myself with the idea of nominating my own stuff--I figure that if it
>> really deserves an award, then someone besides myself is sure to
>> notice. That said, I was at one point tempted to nominate a couple
>> of my lesser noticed stories just for the feedback. I ended up not
>> doing it mainly because I was waiting to see if someone else would
>> nom them instead, and then it was too late.

Ditto over here on the comfort scale. Last year I refused to nominate anything I had either written or betaed because I was too nervous to recommend stuff that I'd had a hand in creating. This year I decided to be a bit braver, but it was still a terrifying process. I think self-nomination is a great idea, especially for new authors or for fics that flew in under the radar, but I think outside nomination is important, too.

>> I do not like the idea of anonymous nominations. I liked knowing
>> *who* nominated my stories, and am comfortable with others knowing
>> the stories *I* placed in nomination. As to being "influenced" by
>> *who* nominated something, I don't think so. I rarely even pay
>> attention to who the nominator is when I read the story. About the
>> only time is if I don't care for the story, I may go back and check
>> afterwards. I think that has only been about 3 times out of all the
>> stories I've read.

I was pulling for the option of having anonymous nominations when this subject came up last year. I do like knowing who nominated my stories and I don't have a problem letting others know what I nominated, but for those who are shy about nominating, why not give them the option?

As for being influenced by who nominated what...I have to admit that it does play a factor for me. If I'm pressed for time and I'm skimming through the lists looking for something to review, I'm more inclined to stop on a fic recommended by an author/reader I trust than one I don't know that well. There are several authors out there who many of my own tastes in stories, and if they recommend something, I'll sometimes go out of my way to read it. That doesn't mean I won't read other things. I've recently discovered some amazing stories that were self-nominated from authors I barely knew or hadn't read before. But like I said above, if I'm pressed for time, the nominator's name will be one of the things I use to determine whether or not I'm going to read a story. Just food for thought if anyone's thinking about the anonymous nominator debate.

Oh, and Dreamflower? I'm with you all the way on the long stories. I love them, too!


Thundera

----------------------------------
Insanity is just a state of mind.
HawkeyeM*A*S*H
----------------------------------

Msg# 5004

Re: concerning story lengths Posted by rhapsody\_the\_bard July 27, 2005 - 16:41:21 Topic ID# 4981
--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, Marta Layton <melayton@g...> wrote:
<snip>

> While I'm thinking about categorisation, here's another thing I've
> had mentioned to me a few times. Some of the subcategories are
> counter-intuitive. What exactly is the difference between
> "Rohan/Romance" and "Romance/Rohan"? I personally think things would
> be simpler all around if we cut down on the number of categories.

This year the Rohan category was created even *before* all the
categories were done. I think it is smarter and practical to wait with
this untill the categorisers were done. I think we could have had a
Shire category in that case.

> Have the author select at least one genre, one book/time, and one
> races/places category. Then sort into categories based on *one* of
> those things not all three like we do now. If for instance we put
> all of the romances in one category we could then make appropriate
> subcategories based on length and on the other two suggested
> categories (races/places, book/times).

This year I kept a close eye on the categories that were selected for
the authors assigned to me. If there were questions I explained them
that all three options were the categories that the story could run
in. The first category was the most preferred one, if that couldn't
run, then the second and so on.

> The only problem with this idea that I can foresee is what to do
> with one of the mandatory subcategories where there aren't enough to
> make it viable. Let's say there are only four adventure WIPs
> nominated. Then we go back to the author with a choice: choose
> another category, or withdraw it. If the author chooses to withdraw
> the nomination it will be eligible again next year.

No, that doesn't need to be adjusted. As long if you explain why you
have to choose three, then the author does understand the why and how.
Yes the nomination e-mail wasn't that clear about it.

Regarding the story length and the liaison's role in it. I checked the
story lenght for all my stories/authors assigned to me before I send
out the nomination e-mail.

Yes there are stories with 19 chapters, but the word count fit in the
story length short story, so I let it be. Maybe it is an idea to add a
different story type next year named Story, that sits in between
Short Story and Novella.

Like Sulriel btw, I do plot and scheme a tale also based on the
lenght. If I know I want to write a ficlet/vignette or a story, then I
adjust everything for it. But maybe that has to do with competition
experience.

But the liaison should advise and check information: but not making
decisions about a nomination. The author knows their material the best
and can use the liaison assigned to ask questions. Don't forget that
all the liaisons are doing this on a voluntary basis and it became
much more then the simple cut and paste job. If you want to do them
more next year, I don't know if volunteers have that much free time to
do so. I rather remain realistic about it.

Just my 2 eurocents

Rhapsody

Msg# 5005

Re: concerning story lengths Posted by rhapsody\_the\_bard July 27, 2005 - 16:53:14 Topic ID# 4981
--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, Marta Layton <melayton@g...> wrote:
>
> On 28 Jul 2005, at 16:48, <aelfwina@c...> wrote:
>
<snip>

>> This lets the author know that if they wish to participate, they
>> cannot dally. My only worry about this is that sometimes emails go
>> astray. (I know a couple of my notifications got caught in my spam
>> filter for example.)
>
>
> Here's an idea. Let's say we give an author two weeks to at least
> touch base with their liaison. (If they're still working with their
> liaison on some of the story details, that's okay; but we need to at
> least have heard from them.) If after two weeks the author has not
> contacted the liaison, the liaison should email the nominator. For
> example,

<snip>

I know I am not the only liaison who checked in with their author a
week after we sent the nomination e-mail. In some cases the nominator
provided the wrong e-mail addy and sources were use to find the
authors. So I wouldn't do this through the nominator, but go to the
author themselves. I don't see the need to have a nominator in
between, besides that it is extra work to keep an eye on things as a
liaison. I mean, how many stories did you nominate Marta? Would you
like to have the almost the same amount of e-mails back in your inbox
because an author doesn't respond too fast to the liaison's taste?

I know it wasn't instructed to contact the author that quickly this
year, but I would keep every correspondence very very short with as
less persons in between. Your example is too long. Keep it short and
simple.

> Yes, that's my feeling. One thing that caused a lot of delay this
> year was that an author would make corrections, even note that they
> approved of the nomination in the comment field, but the liaison
> wouldn't know to finalise the nomination.

In my case, the authors let me know if they did so. I didn't had any
problems with that.

Rhapsody

Msg# 5006

Re: concerning story lengths Posted by Marta Layton July 27, 2005 - 16:57:04 Topic ID# 4981
Hi Ainae,

On 27 Jul 2005, at 16:52, Ainaechoiriel wrote:

<snip>
> As for categorizing that is the biggest part of post-mortem, trust
> me! I
> first provided the three topics because there are three different
> ways to
> categorize. Some people see their stories as Elf stories. Some see
> them as
> Silm stories. Some see them as Romance stories. Race, Book, Genre.
>

I see what you're saying here, Ainae. I'm wondering, though, if there's
a better way to provide this information.

I'm looking at the list of winners for the 2004 winners of the ASCs,
the awards that you claim as the chief inspiration for the MEFAs
(http://trekiverse.us/ASCAwards/ASC_2003_Awards.txt ). From what I can
tell, they are categorised into main categories by series (ENT, TOS,
TNG, DS9, VOY, and miscellaneous). Obviously each story will only fit
in one category -- so all the stories about TNG will be in that one
category and can be subcategorised appropriately. Right now, a dramatic
gapfiller about Legolas during the Ring War could be in drama, but it
could also be in Elves or Lord of the Rings. I think this is what
people find confusing, and what makes our job as categorisers so
difficult.

This is why I suggest that for categorisation purposes we use Book/Time
*or* Genre *or* Races/Places.

Now, this isn't to say that the other information shouldn't be
available to readers. Just that we don't have to build categories
around it. One way to do this would be to add filters to the list of
stories. If this is technically feasible, you could filter by genre
just as you can filter by other things now. It would be similar to
filtering by first, second, or third choices during nomination season.

> Why not sub? Because I'd like to know the Elf story I'm looking at
> is a
> Legolas story or not a Romance. I want to know something about the
> story
> before I even care about it's length. It bothered me this year in the
> ASC
> Awards that Archer/Reed slash was right in there with plain old
> no-subcategory ENT General stories. I'd just rather steer clear
> whether
> they were novels or drabbles.
>

I understand this point, and I agree! But surely this is why we have
warnings and summaries? If a story is about Legolas he should be
mentioned in the summary. (We could maybe even filter by this, again if
it's technically feasible. Authors could provide, say, 3-4 major
characters, and then the reader could filter by stories that are listed
as featuring that category.)

<snip>
> Don't bother with too much discussion about this now. Just mull it
> over for
> the later.
>

I agree. If you don't want to respond to this now you don't have to.
It's just food for thought at this point.

Marta
*****
Si hoc legere scis numium eruditionis habes


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 5007

Re: concerning story lengths Posted by Marta Layton July 27, 2005 - 17:03:23 Topic ID# 4981
Hi Thundera,

<snip>
> -- <aelfwina@cableone.net> wrote:
>>> I am of two minds about self-nomination. I am not real comfortable
>>> myself with the idea of nominating my own stuff--I figure that if it
>>> really deserves an award, then someone besides myself is sure to
>>> notice. That said, I was at one point tempted to nominate a couple
>>> of my lesser noticed stories just for the feedback. I ended up not
>>> doing it mainly because I was waiting to see if someone else would
>>> nom them instead, and then it was too late.
>
> Ditto over here on the comfort scale. Last year I refused to nominate
> anything I had either written or betaed because I was too nervous to
> recommend stuff that I'd had a hand in creating. This year I decided
> to be a bit braver, but it was still a terrifying process. I think
> self-nomination is a great idea, especially for new authors or for
> fics that flew in under the radar, but I think outside nomination is
> important, too.
>

You two aren't the only one. I don't have much of a problem nominating
my own stuff, but I know other people who do.

For me I will nominate stuff of mine that I think is good enough if it
isn't nominated by others, but I get a nice little ego boost from
knowing someone else liked my thing enough to nominate it. Even if it
doesn't get any votes, that's a vote of confidence I wouldn't have had
without the awards.

<snip>
> I was pulling for the option of having anonymous nominations when this
> subject came up last year. I do like knowing who nominated my stories
> and I don't have a problem letting others know what I nominated, but
> for those who are shy about nominating, why not give them the option?
>

That's an interesting idea. Thundera, am I understanding correctly that
the nominator has the option of having their name displayed or not?
Like there's a little check-box on the nomination form, and if you
check that the nominator is listed as "Anonymous", or something like
that?

I like it because it adds flexibility.

Marta
*****
Si hoc legere scis numium eruditionis habes


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 5008

Re: Another problem Posted by Ainaechoiriel July 27, 2005 - 17:05:59 Topic ID# 4995
No, it's by someone else.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Marta Layton
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 4:35 PM
> To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MEFAwards] Another problem
>
> Hi Ainae,
>
> On 27 Jul 2005, at 16:36, Ainaechoiriel wrote:
>
> > Underdogs in Middle-earth.
> >
> > It's on Suite101. Anyone know if the author got paid for it? We
> > already made some stories by anotehr author inelegible
> because they
> > were profic. I really hope this one isn't. I'd have to
> wrestle with
> > this so late in the game.
> >
> > Story URL in question:
> > http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/tolkien/112016
> >
>
> Is this one of those by Michael Martinez? If so, we only left
> the ones that he verified were not written for pay.
>
> If it's not, I have no clue if he was paid for it or not. At
> this point in the game I'm inclined to say let it run, and
> just be more stringent about this next year. I really hope
> it's not an issue.
>
> Marta
> *****
> Si hoc legere scis numium eruditionis habes
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Msg# 5009

Re: concerning story lengths Posted by Marta Layton July 27, 2005 - 17:10:26 Topic ID# 4981
Hi Rhapsody,

On 27 Jul 2005, at 17:40, rhapsody_the_bard wrote:

> --- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, Marta Layton <melayton@g...> wrote:
> <snip>
>
> > While I'm thinking about categorisation, here's another thing I've
> > had mentioned to me a few times. Some of the subcategories are
> > counter-intuitive. What exactly is the difference between
> > "Rohan/Romance" and "Romance/Rohan"? I personally think things would
> > be simpler all around if we cut down on the number of categories.
>
> This year the Rohan category was created even *before* all the
> categories were done. I think it is smarter and practical to wait with
> this untill the categorisers were done. I think we could have had a
> Shire category in that case.
>

Good point. I think that would be a smart idea for next year.

<snip>
> Regarding the story length and the liaison's role in it. I checked the
> story lenght for all my stories/authors assigned to me before I send
> out the nomination e-mail.
>

I didn't do that this year, but I think I should have. I will certainly
do that if I help out next year.

> Yes there are stories with 19 chapters, but the word count fit in the
> story length short story, so I let it be. Maybe it is an idea to add a
> different story type next year named Story, that sits in between
> Short Story and Novella.
>

I like that idea, There does seem to be some area between what I would
consider a short story and what I would consider a novella.

<snip>
> But the liaison should advise and check information: but not making
> decisions about a nomination. The author knows their material the best
> and can use the liaison assigned to ask questions.

Sure, I agree with that.

> Don't forget that
> all the liaisons are doing this on a voluntary basis and it became
> much more then the simple cut and paste job. If you want to do them
> more next year, I don't know if volunteers have that much free time to
> do so. I rather remain realistic about it.
>

Good point. During the post-mort, I'm sure we'll have to winnow through
good ideas and decide what we can do and what we can't do.

Marta
*****
Si hoc legere scis numium eruditionis habes


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Msg# 5010

Re: concerning story lengths Posted by Ainaechoiriel July 27, 2005 - 17:11:17 Topic ID# 4981
About the part on liaisons as I really must be heading home: I realize they
are volunteers, and I wasn't harping so much on length there as the
incomplete. I did ask liaisons to check URLs, too, and I'm finding a lot
that lead to lists of stories and not the stories themselves. So not all
URLs were checked. Somebody, somewhere along the way between Nominator and
Author and Liaison should have caught that that story was a WIP. Liaisons
were the line of defense, approving a nomination as Complete (nomination,
not story). Otherwise, one or two people would have to check every story.
Next year, I'll ask for more liaisons so we can spread the burden more.

We all learn from these things and hopefully make a better, smoother working
system next time out.

Time to go home

> -----Original Message-----
> From: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rhapsody_the_bard
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 4:41 PM
> To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [MEFAwards] Re: concerning story lengths
>
> --- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, Marta Layton <melayton@g...> wrote:
> <snip>
>
> > While I'm thinking about categorisation, here's another
> thing I've had
> > mentioned to me a few times. Some of the subcategories are
> > counter-intuitive. What exactly is the difference between
> > "Rohan/Romance" and "Romance/Rohan"? I personally think
> things would
> > be simpler all around if we cut down on the number of categories.
>
> This year the Rohan category was created even *before* all
> the categories were done. I think it is smarter and practical
> to wait with this untill the categorisers were done. I think
> we could have had a Shire category in that case.
>
> > Have the author select at least one genre, one book/time, and one
> > races/places category. Then sort into categories based on *one* of
> > those things not all three like we do now. If for instance
> we put all
> > of the romances in one category we could then make appropriate
> > subcategories based on length and on the other two suggested
> > categories (races/places, book/times).
>
> This year I kept a close eye on the categories that were
> selected for the authors assigned to me. If there were
> questions I explained them that all three options were the
> categories that the story could run in. The first category
> was the most preferred one, if that couldn't run, then the
> second and so on.
>
> > The only problem with this idea that I can foresee is what
> to do with
> > one of the mandatory subcategories where there aren't
> enough to make
> > it viable. Let's say there are only four adventure WIPs nominated.
> > Then we go back to the author with a choice: choose another
> category,
> > or withdraw it. If the author chooses to withdraw the nomination it
> > will be eligible again next year.
>
> No, that doesn't need to be adjusted. As long if you explain
> why you have to choose three, then the author does understand
> the why and how.
> Yes the nomination e-mail wasn't that clear about it.
>
> Regarding the story length and the liaison's role in it. I
> checked the story lenght for all my stories/authors assigned
> to me before I send out the nomination e-mail.
>
> Yes there are stories with 19 chapters, but the word count
> fit in the story length short story, so I let it be. Maybe it
> is an idea to add a different story type next year named
> Story, that sits in between Short Story and Novella.
>
> Like Sulriel btw, I do plot and scheme a tale also based on
> the lenght. If I know I want to write a ficlet/vignette or a
> story, then I adjust everything for it. But maybe that has to
> do with competition experience.
>
> But the liaison should advise and check information: but not
> making decisions about a nomination. The author knows their
> material the best and can use the liaison assigned to ask
> questions. Don't forget that all the liaisons are doing this
> on a voluntary basis and it became much more then the simple
> cut and paste job. If you want to do them more next year, I
> don't know if volunteers have that much free time to do so. I
> rather remain realistic about it.
>
> Just my 2 eurocents
>
> Rhapsody
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Msg# 5011

Re: concerning story lengths Posted by Laura July 27, 2005 - 18:27:24 Topic ID# 4981
-- Marta Layton <melayton@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > I was pulling for the option of having anonymous nominations when
>> this
>> > subject came up last year. I do like knowing who nominated my
>> stories
>> > and I don't have a problem letting others know what I nominated,
>> but
>> > for those who are shy about nominating, why not give them the
>> option?
>> >

>> That's an interesting idea. Thundera, am I understanding correctly
>> that the nominator has the option of having their name displayed or
>> not? Like there's a little check-box on the nomination form, and if
>> you check that the nominator is listed as "Anonymous", or something
>> like that?
>>
>> I like it because it adds flexibility.

Yes, exactly. I'm not sure how it would work with the system as it is since I don't know the specifications, but if it is possible and not too much work, I think giving people a choice would be a nice gesture. The default setting would probably be to display the nominator's name; I think most are comfortable with letting others know who nominated what. But for those who aren't, I don't see a problem with giving them another option. *shrugs* That could just be me, though.

Thundera

----------------------------------
Insanity is just a state of mind.
HawkeyeM*A*S*H
----------------------------------

Msg# 5012

Re: concerning story lengths Posted by Chris Grzonka July 27, 2005 - 19:18:25 Topic ID# 4981
Marta wrote:

>Here's an idea. Let's say we give an author two weeks to at least touch
>base with their liaison. (If they're still working with their liaison
>on some of the story details, that's okay; but we need to at least have
>heard from them.) If after two weeks the author has not contacted the
>liaison, the liaison should email the nominator.

I like this idea. But 2 weeks is pretty short. If I'm on vacation or
business travel I might be out of the loop for 3 weeks or even longer. Even
if I'm back before that. I usually still need a few days to go through all
my email.

Chris

Msg# 5013

Re: concerning story lengths Posted by elliska67 July 28, 2005 - 7:15:54 Topic ID# 4981
Wow, so much discussion that I missed yesterday. I will just chime
in here because length is something that I had a question about when
I was categorizing.

I agree that it is very important when looking at categories to be
able to easily tell what I will be reading: elf/man/hobbit/dwarf,
gondor/rohan/imladris/mirkwood, romance/angst/mystery,
lotr/silm/hobbit etc. That way we know better how to choose what we
want to read/review. But most importantly--since this is a
competition, we have apples competing with apples and oranges with
oranges. But the same token, I think lengths do have to be
considered when categorizing. When I categorized, I definitely
tried, to the extent that I could, to put shorter fics in one sub
cat and longer fic separate in another. I did this for two reasons:

One: Longer and shorter works require different writing skills. I,
personally, cannot write a one chapter fic--I do not have the skill
to portray something interesting/convey anything interesting in such
a short space. I write very long stories and sustain character and
plot development over many chapters. Therefore, my stories about
mirkwood elves are very different from some other authors that I
like very much who write shorter stories on exactly the same topic.
Comparing my mirkwood elves, who develop over the course of three 20
chapter stories, to the mirkwood elves of another author who wrote a
1 chapter fic on mirkwood elves would be comparing apples to oranges.

Two: From a fairness standpoint, if an author who wrote a long story
is in a category with a majority of shorter fics, I think they
longer story has less chance of getting new readers/votes--it is
easy for new readers to read five stories with three chapters each
and skip the story with 20 chapters. So again, we are comparing
apples to oranges.

I personally would lean towards subcategories based on length where
the number of stories allowed for viable sub cats. Or at least a
consciousness on the part of categorizers of this subject.

As for the nomination process: I am all for making the info supplied
by the nominator be a little simpler and allowing the author to
supply the rest--I would especially suggest allowing the author to
be responsible for choosing story length, rating and supplying the
summary. When I was nominating, it took me a good long while to
gather all that info for each story and there were a few times where
I wasn't particularly sure about the rating or if the author would
want to use the same summary of the story for the awards as she used
on the group where she posted where we all know each other (ex. some
of the summaries were inside jokes). I think authors should be
interested enough in their nomination to supply this info. If they
are not, well...

But I do think more than 2 weeks is needed to give them time to
respond. I am often offline for more tham 2 weeks in the
spring/summer.

Those are my two cents. :-)

Msg# 5014

Re: concerning story lengths Posted by Ainaechoiriel July 28, 2005 - 10:29:19 Topic ID# 4981
I'll repeat again, for everyone--not just Marta--, that all this should wait
until the post mortem. You are all too optimistic if you think I'll
remember all this by then. ;-)

> I see what you're saying here, Ainae. I'm wondering, though,
> if there's a better way to provide this information.
>
> I'm looking at the list of winners for the 2004 winners of
> the ASCs, the awards that you claim as the chief inspiration
> for the MEFAs
> (http://trekiverse.us/ASCAwards/ASC_2003_Awards.txt ). From
> what I can tell, they are categorised into main categories by
> series (ENT, TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, and miscellaneous).

Each of those are broken down into categories. So you have DS9/Romance/O'K
for instance. And with Trek it's much simpler to start the main breakdown
in the series. Genres are subcats, followed by further subcategorizing if
it's appropriate. And the Awards Coordinator does all the categorizing. A
scary prospect. Which is why I've never been insufficiently reluctant to
volunteer for that task. We SOS Maintainers do make it a little easier by
providing suggested subcats based solely on the header information from the
original posts of the stories. (No grouping or anything, just labeling an
O/K story as Romance O/K.)

Yes, the MEFAs were inspired by the ASCs and I borrowed directly from their
FAQ, but then I tweaked and edited from there. Some things we can do alike.
Some things we can't.

> Obviously each story will only fit in one category -- so all
> the stories about TNG will be in that one category and can be
> subcategorised appropriately. Right now, a dramatic gapfiller
> about Legolas during the Ring War could be in drama, but it
> could also be in Elves or Lord of the Rings. I think this is
> what people find confusing, and what makes our job as
> categorisers so difficult.
>
> This is why I suggest that for categorisation purposes we use
> Book/Time
> *or* Genre *or* Races/Places.

But just as you said, someone might not want to put their story in Drama
just because we say let's go by genres. They may see it more as Elf. Or
LOTR. We decide on one and a lot of people are going to be put off having
to decide where to put it.

>
> Now, this isn't to say that the other information shouldn't
> be available to readers. Just that we don't have to build
> categories around it. One way to do this would be to add
> filters to the list of stories. If this is technically
> feasible, you could filter by genre just as you can filter by
> other things now. It would be similar to filtering by first,
> second, or third choices during nomination season.

The problem there is that we'd have 300 stories in each category and that's
where ASC experience comes in. The more stories in a category the more
daunting it is and the less it's read. They make a new category anytime
there are 20 stories. There weren't 8 A/R slashes by two authors in ENT so
they ended up staying in General, much to my dismay. A slash story just
ins't a "general" story.... But anyway, they have an infinite number of
possible categories because they will subdivide anytime they have more than
20 stories in a category or subcategory, so long as the new category if
viable (at 8x2).

I've said before that we need to find the balance between having a few
categories and thus being competitive or having a LOT of categories and
being more inclusive. Somewhere between there is what we want. That's what
we'll have to work on during Post-Mortem.


> I understand this point, and I agree! But surely this is why
> we have warnings and summaries?

It didn't stop me this year. From the Browse Stories page, we don't have
romance partners and I can't remember if we have ratings and reasons. Any,
3 stories I thought looked interesting thus far from the sumamries turned
out to be slash when I went to the story itself. Admittedly, I'm looking at
the entire list of nominations, sorted alphabetically and I'm not always
paying attention to what category they are in before I open the link.

> If a story is about Legolas
> he should be mentioned in the summary. (We could maybe even
> filter by this, again if it's technically feasible. Authors
> could provide, say, 3-4 major characters, and then the reader
> could filter by stories that are listed as featuring that category.)

We'll have to have Anthony very involved in the post-mortem so he can help
us know what we can and can't do technically.

> I agree. If you don't want to respond to this now you don't have to.
> It's just food for thought at this point.

The bad part is that we're all going to have to repeat all this in November.


One other point:

Making new categories only when all other categories are done....

Sounds good on paper. But let me remind you that we were at least 1 1/2
weeks overdue on categorizing this year. I will admit that it was actually
EASIER last year to categorize manually with spreadsheets than it was with
the website this year. I love the website for everything else, but this was
a problem area. Categorization was totally a nightmare for me. I can't
even wrap my mind around it right now. Not how we did it last year and not
how we managed it this year. I've got too much on my plate: Reading season
when I'm not reading enough stories, having a boyfriend (good but it does
cut back on one's time), my house falling apart, work [which I'm supposed to
be doing right now ;-)], downloading stuff to make DVDs, burning DVD's,
cataloging all my VHS tapes, wondering when I'll ever have time to write
again, worrying that my secret alter ego's readers have been waiting 5
months for an update!, thinking about writing but not getting around to it,
getting behind in tons of e-mails (including feedback and reviews and
betas!), wondering if I'll ever manage a post at HA again, and remembering
that Legolas and I made an appearance at the latest hot tub party but then
promptly were never heard from again....

So really, please let this be that last post on this until Post-Mortem.
It's a time set aside for this. There are no nominations then, no stories
that must be read for a deadline, no voting. Sure, it doesn't mean I don't
have all those other things to do, but it does knock out all other MEFA
stuff but that.

And let me also throw in a reminder that my stress tolerance level is a -4.
I've had memory loss, fatigue, stiff muscles, backaches, and aphasia (yes,
aphasia) caused by stress. I really don't want to get that way again. Let
it be in it's time. I believe there's even a database already set up for
putting down ideas until it's time to discuss them. And Marta, if you're
willing, I'd love it if you could sort of help moderate Post-Mortem. Maybe
just help put forth one topic at a time, help me keep down the chaos level
so my brain doesn't turn to cottage cheese. Interested?

Okay, gotta go back to work now.

--Ainaechoiriel
MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards

Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com

Msg# 5015

Re: Another problem Posted by Naresha July 28, 2005 - 11:31:57 Topic ID# 4995
Can't help unfortunately, but Suite101 looks like
it may be one of those problem sites! Well...
issuey anyway! Pity there can't be a nice little
"I got paid for this!" sticker somewhere on it!
LOL

Resha, sleepy and silly!

> Underdogs in Middle-earth.
>
> It's on Suite101. Anyone know if the author got
> paid for it? We already made some stories by
> anotehr author inelegible because they were
> profic. I really hope this one isn't. I'd have
> to wrestle with this so late in the game.


~To forgive calls upon our love, to forget calls upon our strength~

AIM: Naresha21 MSN: candyman_gypsy@hotmail.com
ICQ: 142117881 Yahoo: fruitcake5m1
Personal LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/nareshaninya/
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My Website! Slash Me Happy
http://www.websamba.com/SlashMeHappy

http://quiz.ravenblack.net/blood.pl?biter=Resha






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