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There should be a third alternative in the poll. Have the 2012 season with the same rules/procedures as used in prior years in place. Would this require a month's postponement of the awards season? Yes. But it would return things to a ratings system that are understood and dialog can take off for future changes from there.

I don't like either of the two choices you've offered me in your "poll".

- Erulisse (one L)

I agree with Erulisse. Why can't we just have the old rating system and give people time to hash out the new one? But if I have to choose, I would choose to let the MEFAs go on.

Fiondil

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra" <isisrising08@...> wrote:
>
> There should be a third alternative in the poll. Have the 2012 season with the same rules/procedures as used in prior years in place. Would this require a month's postponement of the awards season? Yes. But it would return things to a ratings system that are understood and dialog can take off for future changes from there.
>
> I don't like either of the two choices you've offered me in your "poll".
>
> - Erulisse (one L)
>

That said (in my previous post), I am appalled that actual threats have
been made against those who put the MEFAs on and if that is the case, I can't
blame you for wanting to leave this behind you.

I admit that I want a change in the ratings rules, but understand that time
constraints can be punishing for meeting deadlines while discussing what
would result in a complete overhaul of the criteria for rating a story. I
think it is very sad that emotions seem to have come to the forefront of the
issue on all sides, causing brusque tones and hurt feelings.

I was honored to be nominated and awed to win a MEFA last year and enjoyed
reading many stories from authors I had never heard of before. The MEFAs
provided a valuable service in the fanfic community by introducing people to
new stories and authors, not just those who were better known or promoted.
Although I will support whatever decisions you make, I really wish that
everyone could step back and take a deep breath, coming back to the negotiating
table with patience and the mutual desire to see the MEFAs strengthened and
more inclusive of the vast variety of fanfic writing that exists from Gen to
X.

- Erulisse (one L)

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Marta is away for much of the day for RL responsibilities. She will be back later this evening, if I am correct. But I will field this question (I am Elliska, one of the four admins who made this announcement).

Unfortunately, we cannot go back to the old system in a month. One of the things that much of the membership does not see is the work behind the scenes. After the awards are over, we do a post mortem and discuss what went well and what needs improvement. Our programmer, Aranel, another of the admins that made this announcement, participates in those discussions in order to know what coding changes to make. We work on the post mortum and the reprogramming of the site straight through until the next awards begin. The reason we are starting later this year (we normally start in June) is because there were so many changes to the code, including the ratings change. It took Aranel from January to now to make all those changes (remember, Aranel has a full time job and does this on the side). Putting it back wouldn't take that long, because all the changes weren't just for the ratings, of course. But it would take much longer than just a month.

Also, we made the change in the ratings because of a definite need--because our consciences would not allow us to see the same incident that prompted the change happen again. We cannot, in good conscience, go back to that system and risk that. Some good alternatives have been suggested, but again, programming them would take a long time and be a great deal of work. Unfortunately, because of the stress of this situation, we are not willing to do that.

But as we said, we do encourage others to take this award concept and make the changes in it that they see fit and run a new set of awards starting whenever they wish. Speaking only for myself here, it is my hope that with The Hobbit coming out, the fandom will be energized and so whoever decides to start a new awards will find an enthusiastic base of participants to make that new awards even more successful and fun than the MEFAs have been. To me, that would be the ultimate legacy for these awards! :-)

I am very happy you enjoyed the MEFAs. I am sure Marta will step in sometime later and second that and add to my comments. I just didn't want people to get their hopes up for this 'third option' because it simply isn't possible.

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "Sandra" <isisrising08@...> wrote:
>
> There should be a third alternative in the poll. Have the 2012 season with the same rules/procedures as used in prior years in place. Would this require a month's postponement of the awards season? Yes. But it would return things to a ratings system that are understood and dialog can take off for future changes from there.
>
> I don't like either of the two choices you've offered me in your "poll".
>
> - Erulisse (one L)
>

Hello Sandra and everyone,

I understand that you and everyone else are anxious upset about the new
rating system. However, your suggestion that we delay the awards and go
back to the old system isn't realistic. The old system was pretty seriously
flawed, as the situation at the end of last year's awards showed. Everyone
agrees that it isn't fair to authors to pull out their stories so late in
the awards, and that's precisely what I'd have to do if the exact same
situation happened in the 2012 awards.

You suggested that we delay the awards and discuss the ratings systems in
more detail now. But that's an unrealistic request for several reasons. For
one thing, MEFAs aside, I don't have time to participate in a detailed
discussion like that would require right now. More importantly, the other
awards organizers and I simply aren't interested in rehashing this policy
for one last year. I'm willing to continue working with the MEFAs through
one more, for two real reasons. First, we are very nearly ready to start
the awards so, compared to most years, there's not that much work left to
do in order to get ready for it. And perhaps more importantly, I had
already said there would be MEFAs in 2012, before I had any indication
people had such passionate concerns about ratings. That is why I was
willing to run the MEFAs for one last year if that's what people wanted.

However, I'm not willing to make such major changes, nor am I willing to
delay things and start the whole process of lining up volunteers all over
again. That's not reasonable, given the circumstances. Of course, if anyone
thinks the 2012 content advisory system (or any other aspect of the
awards!) makes the awards not worth having, then you are free to vote that
way in the polls going on now. I can also put you on our don't-nominate
list whichever way the polls go.

I realize that a binary poll like this seems restrictive. It is, in many
ways. Unfortunately, other options like the ones you suggest would simply
require more time and effort than I'm willing to invest in the MEFAs.

Btw, Elliska was right that I'm not going to be around for a lot of today.
I'm headed out in an hour and won't be online again until at *least* 4 PM
(probably later). I'll answer as many emails as I can before then, and as
many as I can tonight when I get back. Thanks for the patience!

Marta

On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 5:41 AM, Sandra <isisrising08@aol.com> wrote:

> **
>
>
> There should be a third alternative in the poll. Have the 2012 season with
> the same rules/procedures as used in prior years in place. Would this
> require a month's postponement of the awards season? Yes. But it would
> return things to a ratings system that are understood and dialog can take
> off for future changes from there.
>
> I don't like either of the two choices you've offered me in your "poll".
>
> - Erulisse (one L)
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I have a suggestion which would require no new coding and no major re-hashing of policy: leave the ratings system as is, but remove the mandatory ratings panel review for stories rated '5' and trust the authors to rate their stories appropriately. Commit to a deadline for complaints (not allowing complaints after a certain date) and commit to a speedy turnaround on complaints (I think HASA lets you keep a story checked out for review for a week). Trust the ratings panel to recuse themselves when appropriate (to avoid appearance of bias and/or because they just don't have time one particular week).

Requires no new coding on anyone's part, requires no re-work of the rating system, requires less work (most likely) for the ratings panel, and doesn't make those of us who've written stories with a 5 rating feel stigmatized.

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, Marta <marta.fandom@...> wrote:
>
> Hello Sandra and everyone,
>
> I understand that you and everyone else are anxious upset about the new
> rating system. However, your suggestion that we delay the awards and go
> back to the old system isn't realistic. The old system was pretty seriously
> flawed, as the situation at the end of last year's awards showed. Everyone
> agrees that it isn't fair to authors to pull out their stories so late in
> the awards, and that's precisely what I'd have to do if the exact same
> situation happened in the 2012 awards.
>
> You suggested that we delay the awards and discuss the ratings systems in
> more detail now. But that's an unrealistic request for several reasons. For
> one thing, MEFAs aside, I don't have time to participate in a detailed
> discussion like that would require right now. More importantly, the other
> awards organizers and I simply aren't interested in rehashing this policy
> for one last year. I'm willing to continue working with the MEFAs through
> one more, for two real reasons. First, we are very nearly ready to start
> the awards so, compared to most years, there's not that much work left to
> do in order to get ready for it. And perhaps more importantly, I had
> already said there would be MEFAs in 2012, before I had any indication
> people had such passionate concerns about ratings. That is why I was
> willing to run the MEFAs for one last year if that's what people wanted.
>
> However, I'm not willing to make such major changes, nor am I willing to
> delay things and start the whole process of lining up volunteers all over
> again. That's not reasonable, given the circumstances. Of course, if anyone
> thinks the 2012 content advisory system (or any other aspect of the
> awards!) makes the awards not worth having, then you are free to vote that
> way in the polls going on now. I can also put you on our don't-nominate
> list whichever way the polls go.
>
> I realize that a binary poll like this seems restrictive. It is, in many
> ways. Unfortunately, other options like the ones you suggest would simply
> require more time and effort than I'm willing to invest in the MEFAs.
>
> Btw, Elliska was right that I'm not going to be around for a lot of today.
> I'm headed out in an hour and won't be online again until at *least* 4 PM
> (probably later). I'll answer as many emails as I can before then, and as
> many as I can tonight when I get back. Thanks for the patience!
>
> Marta
>
> On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 5:41 AM, Sandra <isisrising08@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > There should be a third alternative in the poll. Have the 2012 season with
> > the same rules/procedures as used in prior years in place. Would this
> > require a month's postponement of the awards season? Yes. But it would
> > return things to a ratings system that are understood and dialog can take
> > off for future changes from there.
> >
> > I don't like either of the two choices you've offered me in your "poll".
> >
> > - Erulisse (one L)
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

I would vote for SurgicalSteel's option for this year.

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "surgeon_ruth" <surgsteel@...> wrote:
>
> I have a suggestion which would require no new coding and no major re-hashing of policy: leave the ratings system as is, but remove the mandatory ratings panel review for stories rated '5' and trust the authors to rate their stories appropriately. Commit to a deadline for complaints (not allowing complaints after a certain date) and commit to a speedy turnaround on complaints (I think HASA lets you keep a story checked out for review for a week). Trust the ratings panel to recuse themselves when appropriate (to avoid appearance of bias and/or because they just don't have time one particular week).
>
> Requires no new coding on anyone's part, requires no re-work of the rating system, requires less work (most likely) for the ratings panel, and doesn't make those of us who've written stories with a 5 rating feel stigmatized.
>
> --- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, Marta <marta.fandom@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Sandra and everyone,
> >
> > I understand that you and everyone else are anxious upset about the new
> > rating system. However, your suggestion that we delay the awards and go
> > back to the old system isn't realistic. The old system was pretty seriously
> > flawed, as the situation at the end of last year's awards showed. Everyone
> > agrees that it isn't fair to authors to pull out their stories so late in
> > the awards, and that's precisely what I'd have to do if the exact same
> > situation happened in the 2012 awards.
> >
> > You suggested that we delay the awards and discuss the ratings systems in
> > more detail now. But that's an unrealistic request for several reasons. For
> > one thing, MEFAs aside, I don't have time to participate in a detailed
> > discussion like that would require right now. More importantly, the other
> > awards organizers and I simply aren't interested in rehashing this policy
> > for one last year. I'm willing to continue working with the MEFAs through
> > one more, for two real reasons. First, we are very nearly ready to start
> > the awards so, compared to most years, there's not that much work left to
> > do in order to get ready for it. And perhaps more importantly, I had
> > already said there would be MEFAs in 2012, before I had any indication
> > people had such passionate concerns about ratings. That is why I was
> > willing to run the MEFAs for one last year if that's what people wanted.
> >
> > However, I'm not willing to make such major changes, nor am I willing to
> > delay things and start the whole process of lining up volunteers all over
> > again. That's not reasonable, given the circumstances. Of course, if anyone
> > thinks the 2012 content advisory system (or any other aspect of the
> > awards!) makes the awards not worth having, then you are free to vote that
> > way in the polls going on now. I can also put you on our don't-nominate
> > list whichever way the polls go.
> >
> > I realize that a binary poll like this seems restrictive. It is, in many
> > ways. Unfortunately, other options like the ones you suggest would simply
> > require more time and effort than I'm willing to invest in the MEFAs.
> >
> > Btw, Elliska was right that I'm not going to be around for a lot of today.
> > I'm headed out in an hour and won't be online again until at *least* 4 PM
> > (probably later). I'll answer as many emails as I can before then, and as
> > many as I can tonight when I get back. Thanks for the patience!
> >
> > Marta
> >
> > On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 5:41 AM, Sandra <isisrising08@> wrote:
> >
> > > **
> > >
> > >
> > > There should be a third alternative in the poll. Have the 2012 season with
> > > the same rules/procedures as used in prior years in place. Would this
> > > require a month's postponement of the awards season? Yes. But it would
> > > return things to a ratings system that are understood and dialog can take
> > > off for future changes from there.
> > >
> > > I don't like either of the two choices you've offered me in your "poll".
> > >
> > > - Erulisse (one L)
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>