Yahoo Forum Archive

I think when this was first mentioned I said that ASC didn't do that. And
then I remembered that they did. At least for a time. So I can't remember
where I left off on this one.

Without question, comments will be available in the YahooGroup archive, at
least until it's full and starts removing old messages. But will those
comments be collected and archived on our site, at least for a time?

That is a possiblity. ASC posts daily digests of all comments to the
newsgroup (as the voting used to be on the group but is now on the web, this
lets the group community see the comments. Which equates to use voting
on-list). But I did notice that this year, you could pull up a list of
comments by category (not by story) on the web. I don't think those
comments will stay there. I think perhaps they were also used as an audit in
a way, a confirmation that yes, your votes were counted.

Why are the comments shown at all and not just counted and forwarded on to
the authors? To encourage more reading, of course. So do we want to only
encourage our own group to more reading, or the fandom at large?

I'm for the fandom at large. To save web space, I'd agree with a term limit
on how long they stay on the site, and I'd even say that when put on the web
site, the names of the commenters are kept anonymous. But I do think it
would be a good thing to make the comments public.

Those are my thoughts. What are yours?

--Ainaechoiriel

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://www.stormpages.com/gabrielle/lotr Land of Myth and Memory
Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com



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I think I'd like to see the comments public - as you said, to encourage more reading by the entire fandom. And to encourage writers to improve their writing - to see what works for readers, and what doesn't, and not only in my own stories.

jo

Ainaechoiriel <mefaadmin@earthlink.net> wrote:
I'm for the fandom at large. To save web space, I'd agree with a term limit
on how long they stay on the site, and I'd even say that when put on the web
site, the names of the commenters are kept anonymous. But I do think it
would be a good thing to make the comments public.

Those are my thoughts. What are yours?







---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jo Dancingtree [mailto:jodancingtree@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 12:51 PM
> To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MEFAwards] Public or Private Archiving of Comments
>
> I think I'd like to see the comments public - as you said, to
> encourage more reading by the entire fandom. And to
> encourage writers to improve their writing - to see what
> works for readers, and what doesn't, and not only in my own stories.

Well, just to be fair, you'll see more of works than what doesn't because
negative comments are counterproductive. There are quite a few new folks,
so I epxlain this again.

Because we count characters to determine the point-worth of a vote, positive
or negative words will still be made of characters. 70 characters of
positive and 70 of negative carry exactly the same weight. By writing
negative commentsor even just constructive criticism, you could be helping a
story you don't like to win. That said, many of us are writers. I think we
can be creative in our feedback.

But the Golden Rule works here: If you can't think of anything good to say,
it really is best not to say anything at all. ;-)

--Ainaechoiriel

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://www.stormpages.com/gabrielle/lotr Land of Myth and Memory
Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com

I dunno. I think that if the judge knows that the comments are going out for public
consumption, they may be less candid than if they were being kept private.

And saying nothing says volumes, of course, which may also add unneeded
pressure. To say nothing of the potential for public humiliation for the authors.

Just my .02 worth...

khazar

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> Why are the comments shown at all and not just counted and

forwarded on to

> the authors? To encourage more reading, of course. So do we want

to only

> encourage our own group to more reading, or the fandom at large?
>
> I'm for the fandom at large. To save web space, I'd agree with a

term limit

> on how long they stay on the site, and I'd even say that when put

on the web

> site, the names of the commenters are kept anonymous. But I do

think it

> would be a good thing to make the comments public.

Yes, agreed. Perhaps they could stay on the site for say a week? Just
a suggestion, as I said I'm fairly challenged when it comes to web
site designs or logistics.

Stella

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dawn Martinez-Byrne [mailto:dlmbyrne@gte.net]
> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 1:36 PM
> To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MEFAwards] Public or Private Archiving of Comments
>
> I dunno. I think that if the judge knows that the comments
> are going out for public consumption, they may be less candid
> than if they were being kept private.

Yes, but those comments generally come out not only as comments but also
recommendatiosn and that's not a bad thing. You're basically not

> And saying nothing says volumes, of course, which may also
> add unneeded pressure. To say nothing of the potential for
> public humiliation for the authors.
>
> Just my .02 worth...

As someone who has had experiece at these kinds of awards, you hardly have
time to count other people's comments. The only one that really counts
(other than vote counters) is the author getting the comment, or not. Since
people can nominate their own stories, no one gets left out as "not
nominated" unless they don't want to be. This isn't like the academy
awards. And trust me, even when you don't win, you are thankful for even
the small comments. Sure, getting pages is better, but even getting a
little makes you feel good. I have been involved in awards like this at
alt.startrek.creative since 1996 and it has always been a positive
experience. Even when I didn't even have an eligible story.

--Ainaechoiriel

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://www.stormpages.com/gabrielle/lotr Land of Myth and Memory
Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ainaechoiriel [mailto:mefaadmin@earthlink.net]
> Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 2:38 PM
> To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [MEFAwards] Public or Private Archiving of Comments

> > I dunno. I think that if the judge knows that the comments
> are going
> > out for public consumption, they may be less candid than if
> they were
> > being kept private.
>
> Yes, but those comments generally come out not only as
> comments but also recommendatiosn and that's not a bad thing.
> You're basically not

Sorry. Got busy at work and forgot to finish my sentence. You're basically
not just writing to the author but writing to the audience: This story was
fantastic. Author really knows how to drive a pace and not lose her readers.
The characterizations were just perfect, just like I see them in the cinema
in my head. And the dialogue! How author could balance scuh seriousness
with such deft humor, I'm not sure I'll ever know! It was perfect! Etc."

(No, that is not a real comment. I made it up just now with no particular
story or author in mind. That, obviously, is a glowing vote and would be
worth a few points.)
And about stories not getting any votes...That happens at ASC because any
story posted, crap or not, is eligible. The cream generally comes to the
top. Here, we nominate. True, we can nominate our own, as can anyone who
joins. But hoepfully, we'll be thinking about the cream and leaving the
drek out. Hopefully there will be few, if any, stories with absolutely no
votes. This could happen, however, even with good stories for these two
reasons: No one will likely have time to read every story. Only those who
read a particular story will vote on it. If a story doesn't get read, for
whatever reason, it will likely not get any votes.

I think I wrote a darn good story this year, if I do say so msyelf. Still,
on asc, it got two rather short votes. Maybe some didn't read it. I know
that some of those who did read it didn't vote because RL just wouldn't let
them. I got a third vote the day after voting was cut off because the voter
had the date wrong. So it didn't count. None of that makes me think less
of my story. It's just circumstances, and there are a lot of factors that
go into why something doesn't get a vote. Was it posted too early and no
one remembers it? Was it posted too late and no one had time to read it?
Were there other voters like me who tried to catch up on all the reading
during award time and thus, only read the short stories? Was it that most
of the voters this year hadn't read the other two parts of the trilogy?
Valerie is homeless and couldn't get to a computer at the library. It
*could* be because the story, well, stunk, but it doesn't always mean that.

Maybe someone who read those two short votes decided to give my story a
read. I know that one person I commented for decided to give a different
story of mine (that ran 6 years ago) a read. My best story. And so far,
he's impressed. I treasure even the short comments. And the longer one
that didn't count.


And LOTR fanfiction is a bigger fandom than Trek is nowadays. We have the
potential of nominated hundreds of stories. No one is possibly going to be
able to read all of them. Some stories may not get votes simply because of
the size of the pool, though I hope every story will have at least one
reader. I don't want to limit the size of the pool though. That one
special as-yet-undiscovered gem might get left behind.

--Ainaechoiriel
Who posted another Helm's Deep banner and an Eye of Sauron

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://www.stormpages.com/gabrielle/lotr Land of Myth and Memory
Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com

As someone who has had experiece at these kinds of awards, you hardly have
time to count other people's comments. The only one that really counts
(other than vote counters) is the author getting the comment, or not. Since
people can nominate their own stories, no one gets left out as "not
nominated" unless they don't want to be. This isn't like the academy
awards. And trust me, even when you don't win, you are thankful for even
the small comments. Sure, getting pages is better, but even getting a
little makes you feel good. I have been involved in awards like this at
alt.startrek.creative since 1996 and it has always been a positive
experience. Even when I didn't even have an eligible story.

--Ainaechoiriel

Sounds fine to me, then.

khazar

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