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I know we needed to get in as much of the fandom as possible this
year, and maybe next year as well, but I was disappointed to find
stories by authors who have not written (or updated wips) in a couple
of years. The ones that were in progress were the ones that really
annoyed me, to be honest. I know real life interrupts, but if a story
hasn't been updated in 2 years, I really have my doubts that it will
be finished, ever, and I regretted the time it took me to read and
vote on some of those.

Anyway, my suggestion is that we have a cutoff date of some
kind...that the wips have been updated within the last 12 months.

Then as the awards continue, they could be limited to stories
published within the last year or so, although that's probably not
realistic just yet...


Larian

-----Original Message-----
From: Larian [mailto:larian_elensar@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 2:24 PM
To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [MEFAwards] Post Mortem topic - Cutoff date for eligible stories

>I know we needed to get in as much of the fandom as possible this year, and

maybe next year as well, but I was disappointed to find stories by authors
who have not written (or updated wips) in a couple of years. The ones that
were in progress were the ones that really annoyed me, to be honest. I know
real life interrupts, but if a story hasn't been updated in 2 years, I
really have my doubts that it will be finished, ever, and I regretted the
time it took me to read and vote on some of those.

Well--and I'm saying this as a reminder to everyone--you never need to read
a story you don't want to read. It's great if people read stories they
hadn't planned. That's one of the added benefits of these awards, but I
also know some felt intimidated by the number and didn't they could read
them all and so didn't vote. You don't have to read them all. You can vote
on the ones that you read that you thought deserved it. And if you read a
story and decided it didn't deserve it, you don't have to vote on it at all.

>Anyway, my suggestion is that we have a cutoff date of some kind...that the

wips have been updated within the last 12 months.

I think that is a great idea for WIPs (and I've edited the topic in the
database to say WIPs). Personally, I don't like reading WIPs. Particularly
when it's a long time between updates (because I'll have forgotten what
happened before) and it's particularly unpleasant to find a good WIP given
up on. When I started in this fandom, I got sucked into some WIPs. I still
have a few out there that I'm reading. But now that my infamous spreadsheet
of stories has over 500 complete stories that I'd like to give a shot to,
I'm rather glad to not have to start any new WIPs. I've got plenty of
completed stories to keep me more than busy.

Discuss if you want, otherwise, we'll have a poll on this one soon.

>Then as the awards continue, they could be limited to stories published

within the last year or so, although that's probably not realistic just
yet...

I'm not sure when that will ever be realistic. With ASC, we have one place
where stories are posted, and thus we know exactly what was posted in the
one year time period. With the MEFAs, unless we were to set up an archive
(and I don't particularly want to do that myself), we have to pull from any
and every archive out there (except TolkienOnline) and with 33000+ (I
haven't been there in a few weeks) LOTR stories on ff.net, there's really no
way we can limit the completed stories to those posted in the last year.
You may go out there and find the best LOTR fanfic ever written and find it
was posted in 1976! You'd want it to be elligible, right?

So elligibility on completed stories and WIPS that ARE being updated,
should still be wide open.

--Ainaechoiriel
MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards
Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com

it looks like some great ideas and discussion going on. I'll try to
throw out my 2 cents in a coherent manner.

cutoff dates:
I'm not concerned about how old a story is. I see something of a
problem in the fandom, in that it seems like (for the most part) only
the newer stories get much attention. I like the way the archives
tend to have the newest on top, but many times, once you're off the
front page, your readership drops dramatically. I love see those old
forgotten favorites get another chance in the light.

instead of a 'completed by' cutoff date, I'd rather leave that open
and instead say that a story can only be nominated one time ever.

in regards to WIPs. ...I used to read some, I don't (much) any more
for a couple of reasons. Mainly the aggravation of waiting on
updates, and especially those that you realize, over a long period,
are likely not to be finished. I'm ducking because my own 'longfic'
took me about 18 months to write and I'm **extremely** grateful for
the readers who encouraged me along the way. But I think, especially
for a contest, if it's worth reading, it's worth reading all of it.
I'd prefer not to allow WIPs at all. Once they're finished, they'll
be eligible in their regular category.


(added)===> another thought here, in order to encourage authors who
haven't finished their work ... what about submitting only the
prologue and first chapter, or two chapters of a WIP, (regardless of
how much of it is written only that much would be voted on). ...
that would allow feedback on the characterization and setting up the
plot, etc, without bogging down the readers in 100k words of an
unfinished story.author votes:


I read Aina's posting nixing the idea, but I'm not convinced it
wouldn't be a good idea to only have one author competition. Every
author listed one time no matter how many stories they had nominated,
but I'd recommend placing many more than three. Maybe list the top
three or five in order, and the top 25 as a group. .. something along
those lines. ... My thoughts are this, that regardless of style or
genre, the author speaks to people or they don't. characterization,
plotting, pace and flow ... the same elements are in place
regardless that they are used differently in poetry than they are in
romance or action/adventure.

Sulriel

Don't know that I really have a say in all this, since I was unable to participate in any of the reading, voting, etc. BUUUT, I would like to see a catagory added for next year.

Crossovers are included, why not AUs? Many, many, MANY wonderful AUs out there and they should be recognized.

And, since I am sticking my nose in things, shouldn't those stories published in the previous calendar year be the only ones eligible? Close of 2004 to nominating season 2005, i.e.

Also, IMHO, WIP should be in a separate catagory, regardless of topic. Only finished pieces should be included in the other awards.

I'll go back to the corner now.


RubyG



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- sulriel <Sulriel@htcomp.net> wrote:

>
> it looks like some great ideas and discussion going on. I'll try to
> throw out my 2 cents in a coherent manner.
>
> cutoff dates:
> I'm not concerned about how old a story is. I see something of a
> problem in the fandom, in that it seems like (for the most part) only
> the newer stories get much attention. I like the way the archives
> tend to have the newest on top, but many times, once you're off the
> front page, your readership drops dramatically. I love see those old
> forgotten favorites get another chance in the light.

That's a good point. I guess I was a little concerned with some older stories
whose authors (I'd heard) had left the fandom and were pursuing other
interests. Didn't seem quite right to give them too much of my time and
attention, but that's just me maybe...

>
> instead of a 'completed by' cutoff date, I'd rather leave that open
> and instead say that a story can only be nominated one time ever.

That seems reasonable to me.

>
> in regards to WIPs. ...I used to read some, I don't (much) any more
> for a couple of reasons. Mainly the aggravation of waiting on
> updates, and especially those that you realize, over a long period,
> are likely not to be finished. I'm ducking because my own 'longfic'
> took me about 18 months to write and I'm **extremely** grateful for
> the readers who encouraged me along the way. But I think, especially
> for a contest, if it's worth reading, it's worth reading all of it.
> I'd prefer not to allow WIPs at all. Once they're finished, they'll
> be eligible in their regular category.
>
>
> (added)===> another thought here, in order to encourage authors who
> haven't finished their work ... what about submitting only the
> prologue and first chapter, or two chapters of a WIP, (regardless of
> how much of it is written only that much would be voted on). ...
> that would allow feedback on the characterization and setting up the
> plot, etc, without bogging down the readers in 100k words of an
> unfinished story.author votes:

That's a good idea. I like it.

> Sulriel

Back for a bit before I head off to choir....

-----Original Message-----
From: Larian Elensar [mailto:larian_elensar@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 5:54 PM
To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MEFAwards] Re: Post Mortem topic - Cutoff date for eligible
stories



--- sulriel <Sulriel@htcomp.net> wrote:

>That's a good point. I guess I was a little concerned with some older

stories whose authors (I'd heard) had left the fandom and were pursuing
other interests. Didn't seem quite right to give them too much of my time
and attention, but that's just me maybe...

Oh, I still love getting comments about my Angel/Buffy stories. Only two
and only written a few years ago.

> instead of a 'completed by' cutoff date, I'd rather leave that open
> and instead say that a story can only be nominated one time ever.

That seems reasonable to me.

That already is the case, except for WIPs, which may run once as incomplete
and once as complete.

>
> (added)===> another thought here, in order to encourage authors who
> haven't finished their work ... what about submitting only the
> prologue and first chapter, or two chapters of a WIP, (regardless of
> how much of it is written only that much would be voted on). ...
> that would allow feedback on the characterization and setting up the
> plot, etc, without bogging down the readers in 100k words of an
> unfinished story.author votes:

>That's a good idea. I like it.

So do I, but I thought of a snag....We don't post stories. We just nominate
them. They are housed elsewhere.

So, is it plausible to just say somewhere: "You only need to read the first
chapter of any WIP to vote on it"

--Ainaechoiriel
MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards
Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Amy Miller [mailto:amy_j12000@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2004 5:44 PM
To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [MEFAwards] Catagories

>Don't know that I really have a say in all this, since I was unable to

participate in any of the reading, voting, etc. BUUUT, I would like to see a
catagory added for next year.

If you're a member you have a say. If you're new as of after Voting Season,
though, you may not have much to go on. You still have a say in any changes
we suggest.

>Crossovers are included, why not AUs? Many, many, MANY wonderful AUs out

there and they should be recognized.

We had quite a few AU's recognized, I think, just not a main category. Are
you suggesting it? Well, put it in the database. It's certainly worth
consideration.

>And, since I am sticking my nose in things, shouldn't those stories

published in the previous calendar year be the only ones eligible? Close of
2004 to nominating season 2005, i.e.

No, it's not feasible because of the hugeness of the fandom. We can maybe
see on ff.net when a story was posted, but not on all sites. An old story
could easily be reposted elsewhere and look "new". And besides, there might
be a gazillion wonderful stories written before we started the MEFAs. And a
trillion that were but we just didn't find 'em. At ASC, maybe a few hundred
stories get posted in a year. Here, thousands! Tens of thousands!

>Also, IMHO, WIP should be in a separate catagory, regardless of topic. Only

finished pieces should be included in the other awards.

I'd put that one to a poll, perhaps, but I think it's the same as for
completed stories. A drama is not a humor piece is not a horror story, etc.

>I'll go back to the corner now.

No reason to hide. Stick around.

--Ainaechoiriel
MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards
Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com

>And, since I am sticking my nose in things, shouldn't those stories

published in the previous calendar year be the only ones eligible? Close of
2004 to nominating season 2005, i.e.

No, it's not feasible because of the hugeness of the fandom. We can maybe
see on ff.net when a story was posted, but not on all sites. An old story
could easily be reposted elsewhere and look "new". And besides, there might
be a gazillion wonderful stories written before we started the MEFAs. And a
trillion that were but we just didn't find 'em. At ASC, maybe a few hundred
stories get posted in a year. Here, thousands! Tens of thousands!

This is a tricky one, because while some sites have dates, others don't.
And a story may have been first at ff, buried for a couple of years, then
moved to OSA--where a new publication date is assigned.

I personally like limiting it to the last year, eliminating all those that
were nominated last year(minus the WIP). But it is tough to check.

khazar

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

-----Original Message-----
From: Dawn Martinez-Byrne [mailto:dlmbyrne@gte.net]
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 2004 3:06 PM
To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MEFAwards] Catagories

>This is a tricky one, because while some sites have dates, others don't.

And a story may have been first at ff, buried for a couple of years, then
moved to OSA--where a new publication date is assigned.

Exactly. There's no way to police the published dates unless we do open
ourselves up as an archive. Personally, I've already got enough on my
plate, and not money to pay someone to do this.

>I personally like limiting it to the last year, eliminating all those that

were nominated last year(minus the WIP). But it is tough to check.

The first isn't feasible but the second has been the case since the
beginning. In fact, I'm working on our 2004 Nominations database. I'm
trying to get the WIPs out right now. Then all that will be left is title
and author. That's where we can see what was previously nominated and is
not elligible again. I'm going to put the WIPs in a new database. They are
elligible only once more...when they are finished.

--Ainaechoiriel
MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards
Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com