Yahoo Forum Archive

The computer I read this group with is having problems with it's power
supply. It does come on, but it makes some strange sounds. I've ordered
another power supply and I have another computer here that I can canibalize,
so maybe tomorrow I'll swap out the power supply. Until then, this computer
shouldn't be left on for long periods of time.

That's why there's a delay in my answering.

Anyway, thanks for replying about my venting about the polls. Good points
everyone made. I like Naresha's compromise. And someone also had a good
idea about putting in a neutral choice of "no opinion". I'll do that in
future polls on this sort of thing. I also appreciate the posts (sorry
having some aphasia here, trouble putting sentences together to make them
say what I want them to) about how democratic it is or isn't to have so few
voting. And yes, I think we do see this in just about every other Yahoo
Group. We can't wait until we have a quorum, as someone pointed out. We'd
never have a poll that closed. So decisions have to be made, and yes, if
democracy is about freedom then those who are eligible to vote have the
freedom to not vote. (It just doesn't make the system work all that well.
We see that in our national politics as well sometimes.) Yes, this one was
a close vote. But it's a vote. Would a second poll change anything? And
then would it be fair? I think I'll go with Naresha's idea. The poll says
one block. So one block it will be. But I'll find someway to break it up
and post "reminders" something to help those of us who like those deadlines
know when it's time to move on from one category if we want a chance to vote
on the others.

And besides all that, it may not make any difference if we get the
electronic voting stuff going. Anthony has some great ideas about that.
More on that when it's more official.

Goodnight for now.


--Ainaechoiriel
MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards
Blog: <http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com/>
http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- Ainaechoiriel <mefaadmin@earthlink.net>
wrote:
---------------------------------

> I think I'll go with Naresha's idea. The poll
> says one block. So one block it will be. But
> I'll find someway to break it up and
> post "reminders" something to help those of us

> who like those deadlines know when it's time to

> move on from one category if we want a chance
> to vote on the others.

Ooh! Wow! Didn't actually expect that my
peculiar little ramblings would amount to
anything, but I'm glad it has! It might just
give us an idea of what people REALLY prefer if
we give them the opportunity to do both.

And I like the idea of the no opinion on polls as
well. May I also suggest another option as well?
Perhaps have an "Other opinion to those listed"
option on the polls? But if ppl do choose to
take that option, then they're required to post
that on the list. I've seen it on some polls at
various groups and it can do fairly well
(depending what the poll is about!) I think that
would cover just one more base and might generate
some lurkers to come forward (one can hope) and
put their ideas out there.

Resha


=====
~To forgive calls upon our love, to forget calls upon our strength~

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<snip>

> And I like the idea of the no opinion on polls as
> well. May I also suggest another option as well?
> Perhaps have an "Other opinion to those listed"
> option on the polls? But if ppl do choose to
> take that option, then they're required to post
> that on the list.

I like this idea. Maybe also require that they post it in a database,
so it's easier for Ainae to keep track of?

I think it's important to bring up a point that came up when HASA was
writing polls. One of the admins, who had studied this kind of thing
at a graduate level, pointed out that there are at least two types of
polls: opinion-gathering and policy-making polls.

I was treating this poll as an opinion-gathering one. It tells Ainae
how many of us really believe. So you can have however many options
you want (no opinion, opinion not listed, whatever). You could even
give more than two definite options, say:

- Voting season should be structured as it was this year
- Voting season should continue to be split somewhat, but more
categories should run at once for a longer time.
- All categories should run in one block.

If, however, this is a policy poll, there should only be two choices,
and they should be mutually exclusive:

- All categories should run in one block.
- All categories should not run in one block - different categories
should run at different times.

If the latter won, then we would have to decide exactly how to split
up the voting season - possibly with another policy poll. But the
point is there has to be only two choices so there's an easily
implementable winner.

Like I said, you can do an info-gathering poll with as many options as
you want, and the admins can use this info to helpo them make a
decision. But if you're going to have a simple "Whatever the outcome,
that will be the way things are run" type poll, it probably needs to
be structured as a policy poll (with only two options, and those
options covering all possibilities).

This isn't intended as a critique of this poll. I think the way it was
run is fine. I'm just saying this for future polls.

Marta

--- Marta <MartaL0712@netscape.net> wrote:

---------------------------------

<snip>

> > And I like the idea of the no opinion on
> > polls as well. May I also suggest another
> > option as well? Perhaps have an "Other
> > opinion to those listed" option on the
> > polls? But if ppl do choose to take that
> > option, then they're required to post that on

> > the list.

> I like this idea. Maybe also require that they
> post it in a database, so it's easier for Ainae
> to keep track of?

Yup! Definately a good idea! I wrote all that
pretty late, so I'm surprised I was even that
coherent! :-P It was just a general idea - open
to elaboration

> I think it's important to bring up a point that

> came up when HASA was writing polls. One of the
> admins, who had studied this kind of thing
> at a graduate level, pointed out that there are
> at least two types of polls: opinion-gathering
> and policy-making polls.
>

<snip>

>
> Like I said, you can do an info-gathering poll
> with as many options as you want, and the
> admins can use this info to helpo them make a
> decision. But if you're going to have a
> simple "Whatever the outcome, that will be the
> way things are run" type poll, it probably
> needs to be structured as a policy poll (with
> only two options, and those options covering
> all possibilities).
>
> This isn't intended as a critique of this poll.
> I think the way it was run is fine. I'm just
> saying this for future polls.

I get what you're saying, Marta, - and they're
all good points! - but I do think that it might
be taking it a just a little bit too far for what
we are doing. I think we can have a poll that
results in policy without cutting it down to only
2 options - I mean, we only had two options on
this one and look how much debate it has sparked!
I think maybe for the MEFAs it might work better
to have more than 2 options. Because then it
gives people more chance to voice a more accurate
opinion. That might also help break up such
closely voted polls as this one was.

Anyway... There's my two cents again! :-P
Resha

=====
~To forgive calls upon our love, to forget calls upon our strength~

AIM: Naresha21 MSN: candyman_gypsy@hotmail.com
ICQ: 142117881 Yahoo: fruitcake5m1
Personal LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/nareshaninya/
Writing LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/writingsofresha/

My Website! Slash Me Happy
http://www.websamba.com/SlashMeHappy

http://quiz.ravenblack.net/blood.pl?biter=Resha

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I'm doing two things at once here (also trying to install the DSL
software on my new Apple), so if any of this is confusing... well,
just ask.

[allowing 'option not listed' choice on polls]

> > I like this idea. Maybe also require that they
> > post it in a database, so it's easier for Ainae
> > to keep track of?
>
> Yup! Definately a good idea! I wrote all that
> pretty late, so I'm surprised I was even that
> coherent! :-P It was just a general idea - open
> to elaboration
>

Of course. That's why I was elaborating. ;-)

[opinion-gathering vs. policy-making polls]

> I get what you're saying, Marta, - and they're
> all good points! - but I do think that it might
> be taking it a just a little bit too far for what
> we are doing.

That's entirely possible. I'm new to the contests side of the fandom.

> I think we can have a poll that
> results in policy without cutting it down to only
> 2 options - I mean, we only had two options on
> this one and look how much debate it has sparked!

Very true! I guess maybe I should clarify a bit.

Any poll can "result in policy" in a loose sense - Ainae or whoever is
making the decision can see that the majority of people feel a certain
way, and decide that s/he will go with what majority says in this
case. I'm guessing that what we all want is always at least a
consideration in deciding policy - otherwise, what's the point of this
post-mortem? So any way that helps Ainae get a hold on how we really
feel is a good thing.

I think this is still an opinion-gathering poll. Sure, a policy came
out of it, but the policy wasn't directly due to the outcome of the
poll. Someone still had to make a decision - perhaps influenced by
what the poll had said, but Ainae could have said, after the poll,
"Thanks for your opinion, but I really feel strongly about this so
we're doing it my way" or "It's too close - we need more decision and
maybe eventually another poll."

On the other hand, Ainae could have given us a policy-making poll.
Something like:

*****
Q: How should voting season be split up? Whichever option gets the
most votes, that will be how we do things next year.

A1: The voting season should not be split. All categories should be
open at the same time.
A2: There should be some splitting. One subgroup of categories should
run then close, and a second group should run then close, etc. In this
case all categories are not open at once.
*****

Think about what would happen with this type of poll if we had more
than two options. Whatever option gets the most votes, that will
automatically become policy. But that option may not have gotten the
majority of the votes. Which isn't a great situation IMO.

Marta

> I think maybe for the MEFAs it might work better
> to have more than 2 options. Because then it
> gives people more chance to voice a more accurate
> opinion. That might also help break up such
> closely voted polls as this one was.
>
> Anyway... There's my two cents again! :-P
> Resha
>