Yahoo Forum Archive

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Msg# 3174

AW: [MEFAwards] A couple days off, a couple days left. Post Mortem Posted by elanor of aquitania December 22, 2004 - 11:35:19 Topic ID# 3174
> I think part of the reason people voted for putting a limit
> on the WIPs (1
> year upedated) because they tend to not like to read a story that's
> abandoned.
>
> Other thoughts?

Hi again,
I am one of those aberrant persons who like also unfinished stories. I would
like "Messages" by Shakes independently of the fact if it has been abandoned
or not. (Though he recently updated after nearly a year this would be for me
a story to read only for its own merits even abandoned.) So if you really
want to discriminate between WIP and unfinished story as Naresha described I
am decidedly for the category "Unfinished Story".

Best wishes Elanor

P.S. I take the opportunity to wish you all

MERRY CHRISTMAS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR!

Juno sent me the following URL

and even I (who seldom laughs) had to laugh
when one deer after the other came alive:

http://web.icq.com/shockwave/0,,4845,00.swf

I hope this will load up alright for you.
It did work very well for me. :-)
I hope it will make you smile, too.
(Probably you need shockwave installed on your PC.)

Msg# 3177

Re: AW: [MEFAwards] A couple days off, a couple days left. Post Mor Posted by Naresha December 23, 2004 - 5:26:40 Topic ID# 3174
elanor of aquitania <elanor@codacode.net> wrote:
<snip> this would be for me a story to read only for its own merits even abandoned.


Best wishes Elanor



Well Elanor has voiced what I was trying to get at. There are stories that are massive works unto themselves but that haven't been updated in ages for whatever reason - but that doesn't mean they dont have any merits as a story.

Resha



~To forgive calls upon our love, to forget calls upon our strength~

AIM: Naresha21 MSN: candyman_gypsy@hotmail.com
ICQ: 142117881 Yahoo: fruitcake5m1
Personal LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/nareshaninya/
Writing LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/writingsofresha/

My Website! Slash Me Happy
http://www.websamba.com/SlashMeHappy

http://quiz.ravenblack.net/blood.pl?biter=Resha


---------------------------------
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Msg# 3178

Re: AW: [MEFAwards] A couple days off, a couple days left. Post Mor Posted by aelfwina December 23, 2004 - 7:54:12 Topic ID# 3174
----- Original Message -----
From: Naresha
To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 5:26 AM
Subject: Re: AW: [MEFAwards] A couple days off, a couple days left. Post Mortem recap




elanor of aquitania <elanor@codacode.net> wrote:
<snip> this would be for me a story to read only for its own merits even abandoned.


Best wishes Elanor



Well Elanor has voiced what I was trying to get at. There are stories that are massive works unto themselves but that haven't been updated in ages for whatever reason - but that doesn't mean they dont have any merits as a story.


I've only been lurking on the post-mortem so far. Yahoo won't let me in to vote on the polls for some reason. But I do want to comment on this.
When I very first started reading fanfics, I ended up getting sucked into a couple of unfinished WIPs. This put me off reading anything with "incomplete" for a long time. Now I will read them, but only if (A) I know the writer is unlikely to abandon the story from her previous track record or (B) enough chapters have been posted to make a pattern there and show it is not going to be abandoned.
That being said, not long ago, I accidentally broke my own rule. I followed some links to an archive that I seldom frequent, and started a lovely story, very well written indeed. Then I got to the third chapter, and realised "Uh-oh". Well, I sent a nice little review to the author, saying how nice the story was and hoped she'd update soon. And then I did a search and found her profile page.
And right there on her page in her own words, she said that she often left fics unfinished, and that basically she didn't care, and not to bother her to update, because she didn't want to hear it.

And I'm left sitting there wondering why she bothers to post the stories in the first place if she has so little regard for her readers.

So, I'd say "no" don't allow unfinished (as in abandoned) WIPs yes, as long as you keep the rule about updates, but abandoned, NO, not even if they write as well as JRRT himself!

Dreamflower
(Barbara)

Resha



~To forgive calls upon our love, to forget calls upon our strength~

AIM: Naresha21 MSN: candyman_gypsy@hotmail.com
ICQ: 142117881 Yahoo: fruitcake5m1
Personal LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/nareshaninya/
Writing LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/writingsofresha/

My Website! Slash Me Happy
http://www.websamba.com/SlashMeHappy

http://quiz.ravenblack.net/blood.pl?biter=Resha


---------------------------------
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Msg# 3180

Re: AW: [MEFAwards] A couple days off, a couple days left. Post Mor Posted by Laura December 23, 2004 - 9:07:57 Topic ID# 3174
Breaking away from holiday madness to respond...

Naresha wrote:
>> Well Elanor has voiced what I was trying to get at. There are
>> stories that are massive works unto themselves but that haven't been
>> updated in ages for whatever reason - but that doesn't mean they
>> dont have any merits as a story.

Ditto over here. I'm incredibly fond of WIPs and Unfinished stories myself, actually. If they remain unfinished, my very overactive imagination has no problem finishing them off in my head. (Some day I'm going to do something about that...)

As the owner of several WIPs myself, I suppose I'm a bit prejudiced. I *do* understand what the rest of you are saying, though. It can be frustrating waiting for updates or finding that the story has been abandoned after the fourth chapter. But I agree with Naresha and Elanor in this. WIPs are stories just like the rest of the stories. Unfinished stories, yes, but it's a rare glimpse into the creative process as it unfolds. And I love that about them, even if we never get to see the conclusion.

Thundera

Msg# 3181

Unfinished stories (answer to Barbara) Posted by elanor of aquitania December 23, 2004 - 9:34:56 Topic ID# 3174
> That being said, not long ago, I accidentally broke my own
> rule. I followed some links to an archive that I seldom
> frequent, and started a lovely story, very well written
> indeed. Then I got to the third chapter, and realised
> "Uh-oh". Well, I sent a nice little review to the author,
> saying how nice the story was and hoped she'd update soon.
> And then I did a search and found her profile page.
> And right there on her page in her own words, she said that
> she often left fics unfinished, and that basically she didn't
> care, and not to bother her to update, because she didn't
> want to hear it.

Hi Barbara,
I think nobody would nominate such a short WIP or unfinished story. What I
thought about are huge stories of maybe 20 chapters.
There is more mass of words and creativity to review than in a
one page short story.

And I thought the problem for the reviewers is predominantly the length of
the WIP ;-)

But if you decide against WIPs and/or unfinished stories I will certainly
live on quite happily :-)

I only think, that WIPs or Unfinished Stories can be well worth the reading.
It depends on the nominator to judiciously nominate a good WIP or unfinished
story.

As they are an important feature of web writing culture I think them to be
important also for the reviews, but that is only my own opinion :-)

> So, I'd say "no" don't allow unfinished (as in abandoned) WIPs yes, > as
long as you keep the rule about updates, but abandoned, NO, not > even if
they write as well as JRRT himself!

Ummh, you surely allow me to disagree here ;-)

I think writers who write as good as JRRT are too seldom as that we should
not allow their work even if abandoned due to real life constraints. Again
my example "Messages" by Shakes (he writes not as good as JRRT though): for
sure he writes episodes, for sure he has no real story arc as he follows the
story line of LoTR, but he has character development, he has realistic
believable characters not warm and fluffy (or solely angsty) feeling
one-dimensional unrealistic characters, he shows us the military of Gondor
as it might have functioned, not just some unbelievable soldiers carousing
through Gondorian taverns. So if he had abandoned this story the story would
have been just as good as the story is now when he updated it in the
required time interval. I really really really see no difference in
reviewing a WIP or an unfinished story.

I have the feeling, which surely can be wrong, that many of you read with a
hope for a story end which fulfils your expectations. For me that is not the
point of reviewing fanfiction. For me the point is for the fanfiction
authors to see the readers' reactions and to improve writing accordingly and
for the reviewers to give recommendations to the public as well as feed back
for the author. So an unfinished story's author perhaps needs no feed back
anymore but the public still needs a review if the story is outstanding.
These are purely my own opinions that you will not change but which I think
not so important that I would even consider to retreat pouting into a corner
when you don't agree to them. Hey, tomorrow the Christmas tree will be
lighted!

I expect to see the abolishment of the section Unfinished Stories but I will
feel sorry for them. I personally like ere to read a well written unfinished
story than to read a technically and/or emotionally unsatisfying finished
story as I value the writing style and the story's content for itself and
the speech is for me far more important than a completed story line.

I think we should set more confidence into the nominators that they nominate
only good stories. Or would an author herself nominate an unfinished story?
Yes? Then let's make the provision "WIPs and Unfinished Stories are
forbidden to be nominated by the author". I just made the respective entry
into the database.

But we have as many different opinions here as we have minds and I knew that
my views count into the minority's part :-)

So, Merry Christmas to you all!
May you have some happy days
and may God uplift your spirits to him!

Best wishes Elanor
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