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"WIPs and Unfinished Stories are forbidden to be nominated by author"

My honest first thought on this one is "Why?"

Discuss please, though we can delete the "unfinished" part:

"WIPs are forbidden to be nominated by author"

--Ainaechoiriel

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "ainaechoiriel" <mefaadmin@e...> wrote:

>
>
> "WIPs and Unfinished Stories are forbidden to be nominated by author"
>
> My honest first thought on this one is "Why?"

Put me down as seconding that puzzled reaction.

If it's to cut down on the possibility of bias before the reading
actually begins, then we should logically ban authors from nominating
their own stories, period. But I'm not really in favor of this, since
most competitions rely on people entering themselves.

So my position: if you've got something you *want* to have compete,
and nobody is nominating it, enter it yourself and see what happens.

Dwim

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "ainaechoiriel" <mefaadmin@e...>
wrote:

>
>
> "WIPs and Unfinished Stories are forbidden to be nominated by

author"

>
> My honest first thought on this one is "Why?"
>
> Discuss please, though we can delete the "unfinished" part:
>
> "WIPs are forbidden to be nominated by author"
>
> --Ainaechoiriel

I'd vote 'no' on this one.

I *think* the thought behind this was that only the 'better'(?)read-
worthy WIPs would be nom'd, but my feeling is that it'd be confusing
and hard to police.

> "WIPs and Unfinished Stories are forbidden to be nominated by author"
>
> My honest first thought on this one is "Why?"
>
> Discuss please, though we can delete the "unfinished" part:
>
> "WIPs are forbidden to be nominated by author"
>
> --Ainaechoiriel

This resulted from the WIP/unfinished story discussion on 23-Dec-2004:

<cite> I think we should set more confidence into the nominators that they
nominate
only good stories. Or would an author herself nominate an unfinished story?
Yes? Then let's make the provision "WIPs and Unfinished Stories are
forbidden to be nominated by the author". I just made the respective entry
into the database. </cite>

As there was/is so much rancour against WIPs and abandoned stories
I thought this to be a means to put a cap on unfinished stories in the first
stages
of their fabrication. It should function as a means to reduce the inflow of
the apparently unwanted unfinished stories that I would have liked to be
allowed even if abandoned.

But this point is not dear to me, in contrast to others already nixed ;-) .
Best wishes and a happy new Year!
Elanor

Thanks, Dwim, you reminded me why this one is important to nix. Because
some other awards that rely on nominations don't let you nominate your own.
And in such a large fandom, it's easy for a little fish to get unnoticed in
that sea. I felt this way myself. This awards program will never be like
that. Because of that and because it was borrowed from aSC. Remember that
at ASC, every story that is posted to the group is eligible, unless the
author says otherwise. Every story is in by default. Good, bad, and
everything in between.

We can't do this like ASC does because of one simple thing: no one posts
stories here and we don't archive them. We have to get our stories from
another pool (or many). So we need nominations. Allowing authors to
nominate their own eligible stories simulates that default thing in ASC.
All I have to do to be in the ASC is post a story. Boom, done. So here,
all I have to do is nominate my own stories. I don't have to sit here
chewing on my fingernails hoping someone will find my story in the tens of
thousands of LOTR stories and nominate it.

So that's that.

--Ainaechoiriel
MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards
Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com



-----Original Message-----
From: dwimmer_laik [mailto:dwimmer_laik@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 5:19 PM
To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [MEFAwards] Re: PM suggestion: just found this one in the database

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "ainaechoiriel" <mefaadmin@e...> wrote:
>
>
> "WIPs and Unfinished Stories are forbidden to be nominated by author"
>
> My honest first thought on this one is "Why?"

Put me down as seconding that puzzled reaction.

If it's to cut down on the possibility of bias before the reading actually
begins, then we should logically ban authors from nominating their own
stories, period. But I'm not really in favor of this, since most
competitions rely on people entering themselves.

So my position: if you've got something you *want* to have compete, and
nobody is nominating it, enter it yourself and see what happens.

Dwim





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dwimmer_laik <dwimmer_laik@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > "WIPs and Unfinished Stories are forbidden to be
> > nominated by author"
> >
> > My honest first thought on this one is "Why?"

> Put me down as seconding that puzzled reaction.

Me three!!!

> So my position: if you've got something you *want* to > have compete, and nobody is nominating it, enter it
> yourself and see what happens.

Yeah. I see no harm in this. As Dwim says, if you have something you would like people to look at, then it's only fair for you to be able to nominate it!

Resha


~To forgive calls upon our love, to forget calls upon our strength~

AIM: Naresha21 MSN: candyman_gypsy@hotmail.com
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, Naresha
<north_shore_fruitcake@y...> wrote:

> dwimmer_laik <dwimmer_laik@y...> wrote:
> > > "WIPs and Unfinished Stories are forbidden to be
> > > nominated by author"
> > >
> > > My honest first thought on this one is "Why?"
>
> > Put me down as seconding that puzzled reaction.
>
> Me three!!!
>
> > So my position: if you've got something you *want* to > have

compete, and nobody is nominating it, enter it

> > yourself and see what happens.
>
> Yeah. I see no harm in this. As Dwim says, if you have something

you would like people to look at, then it's only fair for you to be
able to nominate it!

>
> Resha

I'm not really in favour of people being able to nominate their own
work full stop - but if they are going to be able to then they may
as well be able to nominate any sort of work.

avonaus <avonaus@yahoo.com> wrote:

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, Naresha
<north_shore_fruitcake@y...> wrote:

> dwimmer_laik <dwimmer_laik@y...> wrote:
> > > "WIPs and Unfinished Stories are forbidden to be
> > > nominated by author"
> > >
> > > My honest first thought on this one is "Why?"
>
> > Put me down as seconding that puzzled reaction.
>
> Me three!!!
>
> > So my position: if you've got something you *want* to > have

compete, and nobody is nominating it, enter it

> > yourself and see what happens.
>
> Yeah. I see no harm in this. As Dwim says, if you have something

you would like people to look at, then it's only fair for you to be
able to nominate it!

>
> Resha

> > I'm not really in favour of people being able to
> > nominate their own work full stop - but if they are
> > going to be able to then they may as well be able to
> > nominate any sort of work.

Can I ask why? ANd exactly what do you mean by "any sort of work"???





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~To forgive calls upon our love, to forget calls upon our strength~

AIM: Naresha21 MSN: candyman_gypsy@hotmail.com
ICQ: 142117881 Yahoo: fruitcake5m1
Personal LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/nareshaninya/
Writing LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/writingsofresha/

My Website! Slash Me Happy
http://www.websamba.com/SlashMeHappy

http://quiz.ravenblack.net/blood.pl?biter=Resha


---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> > > I'm not really in favour of people being able to
> > > nominate their own work full stop - but if they are
> > > going to be able to then they may as well be able to
> > > nominate any sort of work.
>
> Can I ask why? ANd exactly what do you mean by "any sort of

work"???


Difficult to answer the why without inadvertently insulting someone
but I'll try. Please bear in mind that this is just how I feel and
how my personal ethics work - and I do realise that that doesn't
seem to be instep with the majority here. IMO - in a contest
situation where entry is only by self-nomination (eg: most cooking
contests) then of course you self-nominate (enter). In other
competitions, such as most fanfic ones that I've seen, where being
nominated is seen as some sort of honour (eg: nomination buttons are
available) then in my view one wouldn't nominate one's own work.
Now, obviously (and I'll admit that I was surprised when I realised
this) people do. It just seems such a peculair thing to do - maybe
it is a cultural thing. Anyway, to me allowing it seems to make the
nomination process a bit of a mix of things - but that's just my
opinion and I realise that I'm in a minority.

<i>ANd exactly what do you mean by "any sort of work"???
</i>

Sorry - the sort of work which was under discussion: WIPS and
incomplete works. If you are going to allow self-nomination then I
can't see why you would only allow it in some categories. Hope that
is clearer.

Avon

Avon wrote:

> In other
> competitions, such as most fanfic ones that I've seen, where being
> nominated is seen as some sort of honour (eg: nomination buttons are
> available) then in my view one wouldn't nominate one's own work.

Hi Avon,
you are not alone in this feelings ;-)
Here is another of the minority, who thinks
that nomination buttons should be given
only for stories nominated not by the authors themselves.

Best wishes Elanor

elanor of aquitania <elanor@codacode.net> wrote:
Avon wrote:

> > In other competitions, such as most fanfic ones that > > I've seen, where being nominated is seen as some
> > sort of honour (eg: nomination buttons are
> > available) then in my view one wouldn't nominate
> > one's own work.
>
> Hi Avon,
> you are not alone in this feelings ;-) Here is another > of the minority, who thinks that nomination buttons
> should be given only for stories nominated not by the > authors themselves.
>
> Best wishes Elanor

What about a compromise? Well a sort of comprimise! What if self-nominated stories need a second? It's often done in meetings - someone puts forward a vote, someone else needs to second that vote.

Resha


~To forgive calls upon our love, to forget calls upon our strength~

AIM: Naresha21 MSN: candyman_gypsy@hotmail.com
ICQ: 142117881 Yahoo: fruitcake5m1
Personal LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/nareshaninya/
Writing LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/writingsofresha/

My Website! Slash Me Happy
http://www.websamba.com/SlashMeHappy

http://quiz.ravenblack.net/blood.pl?biter=Resha


---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Resha wrote:

> What about a compromise? Well a sort of comprimise! What if
> self-nominated stories need a second? It's often done in
> meetings - someone puts forward a vote, someone else needs to
> second that vote.

Hi Resha,
do you mean a second for the nomination itself?
I think that is out as far as I understood Ainaechoiriel.
It might be rather problematic for an unknown author
to get a second during the nomination process.

But a second opinion for awarding the nomination button
could probably still be discussed.

Yet I think as soon as self nomination is allowed
it becomes politically problematic.
Well known authors would not have a problem
to get a nod from a second.

But unknown authors?
This would become another contest IMO
just for securing a nomination button.

I would think one could limit political problems
if only those self nominated stories get a
nomination button which have received
at least one review.
That could function as the seconding
by another member of this list.

But I admit, unknown authors
might again be put at disadvantage
as they might find less readers.

Best wishes Elanor

elanor of aquitania <elanor@codacode.net> wrote:
Resha wrote:

> What about a compromise? Well a sort of comprimise! What if
> self-nominated stories need a second? It's often done in
> meetings - someone puts forward a vote, someone else needs to
> second that vote.

> Hi Resha,
> do you mean a second for the nomination itself?
> I think that is out as far as I understood
> Ainaechoiriel. It might be rather problematic for an
> unknown author to get a second during the nomination
> process.

That was what I meant. But I can see the problems associated with it.

> I would think one could limit political problems
> if only those self nominated stories get a
> nomination button which have received at least one
> review. That could function as the seconding
> by another member of this list.
>
> But I admit, unknown authors might again be put at
> disadvantage as they might find less readers.

The other option is creating a new button for self nominators. I can understand your issues with allowing self-nomination. But we encounter problems whereve we turn it seems with this - if we disallow self-nomination, lesser-known readers are denied a chance to become more noticed. However, if we allow it, then it can become a source to receive an award nomination. That's why I suggested that a story had to receive a second nomination to be viable - it means that someone has read it and thinks that it is worthy of being nominated! I can't think of a better way of eliminating said political issues unfortunately! :-( Actually, I can't think of too many other ways period!

Resha


~To forgive calls upon our love, to forget calls upon our strength~

AIM: Naresha21 MSN: candyman_gypsy@hotmail.com
ICQ: 142117881 Yahoo: fruitcake5m1
Personal LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/nareshaninya/
Writing LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/writingsofresha/

My Website! Slash Me Happy
http://www.websamba.com/SlashMeHappy

http://quiz.ravenblack.net/blood.pl?biter=Resha


---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Elanor said it well on this one: it's for the unknown authors to have a fair
shake. And that means also that no, there will not be a separate button for
self-nominations. I won't make unknown authors into second-class citizens.
Also, it might influence a reader/voter, by making them think that a
self-nominated story is inferior--before they even read it. I've been on
the outside of too many other awards to want to make others feel that way.

The test of whether a self-nominated story was worthy of being nominated is
how it does in the awards.


--Ainaechoiriel
MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards
Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Naresha [mailto:north_shore_fruitcake@yahoo.com.au]
Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 6:51 AM
To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: AW: AW: [MEFAwards] Re: PM suggestion: just found this one in
the database (nominations)




elanor of aquitania <elanor@codacode.net> wrote:
Resha wrote:

> What about a compromise? Well a sort of comprimise! What if
> self-nominated stories need a second? It's often done in meetings -
> someone puts forward a vote, someone else needs to second that vote.

> Hi Resha,
> do you mean a second for the nomination itself?
> I think that is out as far as I understood Ainaechoiriel. It might be
> rather problematic for an unknown author to get a second during the
> nomination process.

That was what I meant. But I can see the problems associated with it.

> I would think one could limit political problems if only those self
> nominated stories get a nomination button which have received at least
> one review. That could function as the seconding by another member of
> this list.
>
> But I admit, unknown authors might again be put at disadvantage as
> they might find less readers.

The other option is creating a new button for self nominators. I can
understand your issues with allowing self-nomination. But we encounter
problems whereve we turn it seems with this - if we disallow
self-nomination, lesser-known readers are denied a chance to become more
noticed. However, if we allow it, then it can become a source to receive an
award nomination. That's why I suggested that a story had to receive a
second nomination to be viable - it means that someone has read it and
thinks that it is worthy of being nominated! I can't think of a better way
of eliminating said political issues unfortunately! :-( Actually, I can't
think of too many other ways period!

Resha


~To forgive calls upon our love, to forget calls upon our strength~

AIM: Naresha21 MSN: candyman_gypsy@hotmail.com
ICQ: 142117881 Yahoo: fruitcake5m1
Personal LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/nareshaninya/
Writing LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/writingsofresha/

My Website! Slash Me Happy
http://www.websamba.com/SlashMeHappy

http://quiz.ravenblack.net/blood.pl?biter=Resha


---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Fine by me, Ainae!!! Was just making another of
my odd suggestions! :-)

--- Ainaechoiriel <mefaadmin@earthlink.net>
wrote:
---------------------------------
Elanor said it well on this one: it's for the
unknown authors to have a fair
shake. And that means also that no, there will
not be a separate button for
self-nominations. I won't make unknown authors
into second-class citizens.
Also, it might influence a reader/voter, by
making them think that a
self-nominated story is inferior--before they
even read it. I've been on
the outside of too many other awards to want to
make others feel that way.

The test of whether a self-nominated story was
worthy of being nominated is
how it does in the awards.

=====
~To forgive calls upon our love, to forget calls upon our strength~

AIM: Naresha21 MSN: candyman_gypsy@hotmail.com
ICQ: 142117881 Yahoo: fruitcake5m1
Personal LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/nareshaninya/
Writing LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/writingsofresha/

My Website! Slash Me Happy
http://www.websamba.com/SlashMeHappy

http://quiz.ravenblack.net/blood.pl?biter=Resha

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