Yahoo Forum Archive

Let's look at our categories and their awards titles: (when making
suggestions TRY for a grouping of three. I know it's not always
possible to have a brilliant thought in a group of three, but try
when possible.)

Note: when replying, make a separate post for each category, and use
a subject line to match. It will be easier to follow that way.

1. (Topic) Races & Places
a. Men
1) The Faithful of Numenor Award
2) The Kings of Gondor and Arnor Award
3) The Ruling Stewards Award

These are good, but do we want to suggest any challengers to replace
them? The order is presently historical.

b. Elves
1) The Lothlorien Award
2) The Imladris Award
3) The Grey Havens Award

Presently just three main places where one might find Elves at the
time of the Ring-War. Why no Mirkwood? Because it is used elsewhere
and it didn't play a big part in LOTR.

c. Hobbits
1) The Ring-bearer of Bag End Award
2) The Master of Buckland Award
3) The Thain of The Great Smials Award

There has been quibbling about the order. Shall we change any of
these, swap the order around, etc.?

d. Dwarves
1)
2)
3)

We need some. Shall we go with Dwarves from The Hobbit? Or ones
mentioned in LOTR? There's Gimli and Gloin. Dain is mentioned, too,
I think. Any other thoughts?


e. Villains
1)
2)
3)

Three of our biggest villains were used for Horror. Not that that
can't be changed. So that's one option: move the Awards titles from
Horror to here and find new ones for Horror. What else might we use?
Races of evil beings? The Balrog Award? The Uruk-Hai Award? The
Cave-Troll Award? Etc. Toss some suggestions out there.

f. Cross-Cultural
1)
2)
3)

We need some for here. Shall we go with cross-cultural friendships?
It's a good place for the Gimli and Legolas Award. But what else
could we use there?

2. (Topic) Genres
a. Humor
1) The Tom Bombadil Award
2) The Bilbo Baggins Award
3) The Barliman Butterbur Award

Presently using the three most humorous characters Shadow975 and I
could come up with in our brainstorming session. From LOTR, that
is. Feel free to offer suggestions (goes for any category here).

b. Adventure
1) The Battle of the Black Gate Award
2) The Battle of the Pelennor Fields Award
3) The Battle of Helm's Deep Award

Presently reflects in reverse-chronological order the three major
battles of LOTR.

c. Drama (includes Angst)
1) The Turin Turambar Award
2) The Frodo Baggins Award
3) The Nimrodel and Amroth Award

Presently reflects the three angstiest people Shadow and I could
think of in our brainstorming session. I've since been thinking
Faramir is a pretty angsty guy....

d. Romance
1) The Luthien and Beren Award
2) The Tuor and Idril Award
3) The Aragorn and Arwen Award

Presently shows the three main Elf-Man unions, in chronological order.

e. Horror
1) The Morgoth Bauglir Award
2) The Eye of Sauron Award
3) The Witch King of Angmar Award

Could be swapped to Villains, but then what would we put here? We
could put other scary things: The Mirkwood Spider Award? The
Shelob's Lair Award? The Moria Award?

f. Mystery
1) The Shadows of Cuivienen Award
2) The Barrow-Wight Award
3) The Pukel-Men Award

I've been thinking the Dead Marshes might be a good replacement for
Shadows of Cuivienen. What do you think?

g. Crossovers
1) The Pirates of the Caribbean Award
2) The Hidalgo Award
3) The Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade Award

Still a good set, but can we update them? Orlando has been in Troy
and will be in Kingdom of Heaven. Dom is in Lost. Billy Boyd was in
Master and Commander. What other movies/tv shows have our actors
been in that we might choose?

h. Alternate-Universe

We had some silly ideas for this one. Such as the "Arwen Stole
Glorfindel's Horse Award" or some such. But seriously, we do need
three awards. They CAN be silly if we want to go that way. (The
Tenth Walker Award....) or they can be serious. What say you?

i. Movie-Verse

This might be a better place for "Arwen Stole Glorfindel's Horse". ;-
) What other movie changes would make good titles?

j. Non-Fiction

This poses a challenge, doesn't it. What might we title our awards
here. Maybe for great libraries? Systems of writing (Tengwar,
whatever the Dwarvish runes are called, etc....) or languages
(Rohirric, Sindarin, Dwarvish....) Put your thinking caps on....

3. (Topic) Time/Books
a. The Silmarillion
1) The Ainulindale Award
2) The Valaquenta Award
3) The Akallabeth Award

Presently three of the main time eras/book divisions in the Silm. In
chronological order.

b. The Hobbit
1) The Shire Award
2) The Mirkwood Award
3) The Lonely Mountain Award

Presently three main places Biblo visited on his journey. In
chronological order.

c. The Lord of the Rings
1) The Fellowship fo the Ring Award
2) The Two Towers Award
3) The Return of the King Award

Presently the most obvious grouping of three in this whole list, LOTR
being a trilogy and all.

d. Post-Ring War

I'm coming up blank myself at this time. But let's discuss together
and we may come up with something brilliant.

--Ainaechoiriel
Almost done. I actually think this is the fun part. :-)

I would like to see The Shelob's Lair award in
Horror. I don't think it really fits as a
Villian award personally. The Mines of Moria
Award could become a Horror award as well. The
Eye of Sauron Award would work well in
Villians... The Wolves of Isengard Award? (for
either!) Could we fit a Palantir award of some
sort in there somehow? Sorry - I'm not familiar
enough with the books to be better at picking
things! Think of this as TBC! I shall think on
it some more and come back if I think something
up! Plus it's 220am and I need sleep! :-D

Naresha.

--- ainaechoiriel <mefaadmin@earthlink.net>
wrote:

---------------------------------
<snip>

e. Villains
1)
2)
3)

e. Horror
1) The Morgoth Bauglir Award
2) The Eye of Sauron Award
3) The Witch King of Angmar Award

Could be swapped to Villains, but then what would
we put here? We could put other scary things:
The Mirkwood Spider Award? The Shelob's Lair
Award? The Moria Award?
<snip>

=====
~To forgive calls upon our love, to forget calls upon our strength~

AIM: Naresha21 MSN: candyman_gypsy@hotmail.com
ICQ: 142117881 Yahoo: fruitcake5m1
Personal LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/nareshaninya/
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--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "ainaechoiriel" <mefaadmin@e...> wrote:

>
> Let's look at our categories and their awards titles: (when making
> suggestions TRY for a grouping of three. I know it's not always
> possible to have a brilliant thought in a group of three, but try
> when possible.)
>
> Note: when replying, make a separate post for each category, and use
> a subject line to match. It will be easier to follow that way.
>
> 1. (Topic) Races & Places
> a. Men
> 1) The Faithful of Numenor Award
> 2) The Kings of Gondor and Arnor Award
> 3) The Ruling Stewards Award
>
> These are good, but do we want to suggest any challengers to replace
> them? The order is presently historical.
>

I would recommend

1) The Numenor Award
2) The Gondor and Arnor Award
3) The Riddermark Award

Or even:

1) The Gondor Award
2) The Riddermark Award
3) The Harad Award

(for the three main mannish powers at the time of the Ring War)

Obviously if Gondor and Rohan become their own categories we will need to change this.

Marta

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "ainaechoiriel" <mefaadmin@e...> wrote:

>
> Let's look at our categories and their awards titles: (when making
> suggestions TRY for a grouping of three. I know it's not always
> possible to have a brilliant thought in a group of three, but try
> when possible.)
>
> Note: when replying, make a separate post for each category, and use
> a subject line to match. It will be easier to follow that way.
>

<snip>

> b. Elves
> 1) The Lothlorien Award
> 2) The Imladris Award
> 3) The Grey Havens Award
>
> Presently just three main places where one might find Elves at the
> time of the Ring-War. Why no Mirkwood? Because it is used elsewhere
> and it didn't play a big part in LOTR.
>

How about:

1) The Galadriel Award
2) The Elrond Half-elven Award
3) The Cirdan Award

as the three bearers of the Elven Rings?

Marta
]

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "ainaechoiriel" <mefaadmin@e...> wrote:

>
> Let's look at our categories and their awards titles: (when making
> suggestions TRY for a grouping of three. I know it's not always
> possible to have a brilliant thought in a group of three, but try
> when possible.)
>
> Note: when replying, make a separate post for each category, and use
> a subject line to match. It will be easier to follow that way.
>

<snip>

> c. Hobbits
> 1) The Ring-bearer of Bag End Award
> 2) The Master of Buckland Award
> 3) The Thain of The Great Smials Award
>
> There has been quibbling about the order. Shall we change any of
> these, swap the order around, etc.?
>

Thain needs to be "The Thain of Tookland" instead of "The Thain of the Great Smials"
award, I think? He is ruler of a whole clan, not just head of a certain hole.

Also, maybe should "The Ring-bearer of Bag End" to "The Mayor of the Shire"? Those are
the three major positions in the Shire. Thain, Master, Mayor.

Also I stand by my earlier statement that the order should be reversed:

1. Thain
2. Master
3. Mayor/Ring-bearer

Marta

> d. Dwarves
> 1)
> 2)
> 3)
>
> We need some. Shall we go with Dwarves from The Hobbit? Or ones
> mentioned in LOTR? There's Gimli and Gloin. Dain is mentioned, too,
> I think. Any other thoughts?
>

I'd go with homes of the Dwarves.

1) Moria
2) The Lonely Mountain

I'm not so sure about the third. The Iron Hills? Wahtever the mountains west of the Shire
are? Or is there a major home of the Dwarves in the Silmarillion I'm forgetting?

Marta

> f. Cross-Cultural
> 1)
> 2)
> 3)
>

1) The Legolas and Gimli Award
2) The Gandalf and Bilbo Award
3) The Merry and Eowyn Award (or possibly the Pippin and Beregond award)

Marta

Sorry, I seem to keep forgetting to change the topics.

> 2. (Topic) Genres
> a. Humor
> 1) The Tom Bombadil Award
> 2) The Bilbo Baggins Award
> 3) The Barliman Butterbur Award
>

I personally think we can have the same character feature in two different awards, so long
as the titles are unique. For example, here... we have The Bilbo Baggins Award for humour,
and I really want a "Gandalf and Bilbo" award for cross-cultural.

If that's a problem, maybe have "the Quickbeam award"? Or take a completely different
tack, and have three characters used for comic relief in the movies (perhaps
inappropriately ;-) )? In which case:

1. The Merry and Pippin Award
2. The Ents of Fangorn Award
3. The Gimli son of Gloin Award

Marta

> d. Romance
> 1) The Luthien and Beren Award
> 2) The Tuor and Idril Award
> 3) The Aragorn and Arwen Award
>
> Presently shows the three main Elf-Man unions, in chronological order.
>

I recommended earlier that we change this to the three main romances of Lord of the
Rings, as I think they would be more recognizable?

1st: The Aragorn and Arwen Award
2nd: The Faramir and Eowyn Award
3rd: The Sam and Rosie Award

Marta

> f. Mystery
> 1) The Shadows of Cuivienen Award
> 2) The Barrow-Wight Award
> 3) The Pukel-Men Award
>
> I've been thinking the Dead Marshes might be a good replacement for
> Shadows of Cuivienen. What do you think?
>

That might be good, unless you choose to put it in horror instead. I also suggested Barrow
Downs Award for horror, which I think is too similar to Barrow-wights? How about:

1) The Entwives Award
2) The Palantiri Award
3) The Pukel-men Award

Marta

> g. Crossovers
> 1) The Pirates of the Caribbean Award
> 2) The Hidalgo Award
> 3) The Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade Award
>
> Still a good set, but can we update them? Orlando has been in Troy
> and will be in Kingdom of Heaven. Dom is in Lost. Billy Boyd was in
> Master and Commander. What other movies/tv shows have our actors
> been in that we might choose?
>

My vote is for the "Troy" award because Sean Bean was that as well. Ian McKellen was in X-
Men as well, which could be good. David Wenham was in Van Helsing and Moulin Rouge
(but a bit part in Moulin Rouge, so that may not be the best idea).

I'd use a more recent movie loike that to replace "Indiana Jones" (sorry, John R-D!)

Marta

> h. Alternate-Universe
>
> We had some silly ideas for this one. Such as the "Arwen Stole
> Glorfindel's Horse Award" or some such. But seriously, we do need
> three awards. They CAN be silly if we want to go that way. (The
> Tenth Walker Award....) or they can be serious. What say you?
>

That's one way to do it. Another way might be to take three common AU plotlines. Maybe:

1. The Boromir Lives Award
2. The Faramir Goes to Rivendell Award
3. The Frodo Dies in Mordor Award

Or something like that?

Marta

> i. Movie-Verse
>
> This might be a better place for "Arwen Stole Glorfindel's Horse". ;-
> ) What other movie changes would make good titles?
>

How about three main departures in the three movies

(FotR) 1. The "Arwen Steals Asfaloth" Award
1. The "Let's Skip the Old Forest" Award

(TTT) 2. The "Elves at Helm's Deep" Award
2. The "evil!Faramir" Award
2. The "Aragorn Dies" Award

(RotK) *sigh*... entirely too many here...
1. The "Denethor's Missing Palantir" Award
2. The "Retaking Osgiliath" Award
3. The "Go Home, Sam" Award
4. The "Legolas vs. the Mumak" Award
5. The "Arwen Dies" Award
6. The "Merry at the Black Gate" Award
7. The "Scouring? What Scouring?" Award

Marta

> j. Non-Fiction
>
> This poses a challenge, doesn't it. What might we title our awards
> here. Maybe for great libraries? Systems of writing (Tengwar,
> whatever the Dwarvish runes are called, etc....) or languages
> (Rohirric, Sindarin, Dwarvish....) Put your thinking caps on....
>

I'd go with sites of libraries. How about:

1. The Imladris award
2. The Orthanc Award
3. The Minas Tirith Award

Marta

> b. The Hobbit
> 1) The Shire Award
> 2) The Mirkwood Award
> 3) The Lonely Mountain Award
>
> Presently three main places Biblo visited on his journey. In
> chronological order.
>

If we go with my suggestion to use "The Lonely Mountain" for Dwarves we'll have to use
something else. Laketown, Beorn's House, the Misty Mountains, something like that?

Marta

> d. Post-Ring War
>

How about three areas that *weren't* absorbed into the Reunified Kingdom?

1. The Shire Award
2. The Fangorn Award
3. The Druedain Forest Award

Or maybe three Elves that stayed into the Fourth Age?

1. The Celeborn Award
2. The Legolas Award
3. The Elrohir and Elladan Award

Or maybe three areas that saw piece in the Fourth Age?

1. The Ithilien Award
2. The Mordor Award
3. The Breeland Award

Or how about the *sons* of Aragorn, Faramir, and Eomer?

1. The Eldarion Award
2. The Elboron Award
3. The Elfwine Award

Marta

Marta wrote:

>> I'd go with homes of the Dwarves.
>> 1) Moria
>> 2) The Lonely Mountain
>> I'm not so sure about the third. The Iron Hills? Wahtever the
>> mountains west of the Shire are? Or is there a major home of the
>> Dwarves in the Silmarillion I'm forgetting?

I suggested the Aglarond Award for #3, but if you're looking for the mountains west of the Shire, those would be the Blue Mountains. Or if we wanted to do Silm references, there's the dwarven cities of Belegost and Nogrod. Of course, the dwarves can lay claim to the elven strongholds of Menegroth, Nargothrond, and Thranduil's halls, too. Dwarves took part in the construction of all three. Or Mount Gundabad where the Grey Mountains and Misty Mountains meet. Some believe Durin woke there, and it was a huge meeting place for dwarves until the Orcs overran it.

Thundera

Marnie wrote:

>> How about three main departures in the three movies
>>
>> (FotR) 1. The "Arwen Steals Asfaloth" Award
>> 1. The "Let's Skip the Old Forest" Award
>>
>>(TTT) 2. The "Elves at Helm's Deep" Award
>> 2. The "evil!Faramir" Award
>> 2. The "Aragorn Dies" Award
>>
>>(RotK) *sigh*... entirely too many here...
>> 1. The "Denethor's Missing Palantir" Award
>> 2. The "Retaking Osgiliath" Award
>> 3. The "Go Home, Sam" Award
>> 4. The "Legolas vs. the Mumak" Award
>> 5. The "Arwen Dies" Award
>> 6. The "Merry at the Black Gate" Award
>> 7. The "Scouring? What Scouring?" Award

::snort:: Huge support over here for the "Scouring? What Scouring?" Award. I very much like that one. Can I add another one to the RotK? What about the "Disappearance of the Grey Company" Award. I understood why the Rangers weren't in the third film, but it still irked me.

Thundera

Marta wrote:

>> I'd go with sites of libraries. How about:
>>
>> 1. The Imladris award
>> 2. The Orthanc Award
>> 3. The Minas Tirith Award

I like those. Could we add "scrolls" to the title to make it sound more...scholarly? Something like "The Imladris Scrolls Award" and "The Orthanc Scrolls Award." Just a thought.

Thundera

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "Laura" <thunderalaura@j...> wrote:

>
> Marta wrote:
> >> I'd go with homes of the Dwarves.
> >> 1) Moria
> >> 2) The Lonely Mountain
> >> I'm not so sure about the third. The Iron Hills? Wahtever the
> >> mountains west of the Shire are? Or is there a major home of the
> >> Dwarves in the Silmarillion I'm forgetting?
>
> I suggested the Aglarond Award for #3,

<snip>

Oh yes, Aglarond works fine for me. I had completely forgot about it. Thanks for the
suggestion. :-)

Marta

> >> (FotR) 1. The "Arwen Steals Asfaloth" Award
> >> 1. The "Let's Skip the Old Forest" Award
> >>
> >>(TTT) 2. The "Elves at Helm's Deep" Award
> >> 2. The "evil!Faramir" Award
> >> 2. The "Aragorn Dies" Award
> >>
> >>(RotK) *sigh*... entirely too many here...
> >> 1. The "Denethor's Missing Palantir" Award
> >> 2. The "Retaking Osgiliath" Award
> >> 3. The "Go Home, Sam" Award
> >> 4. The "Legolas vs. the Mumak" Award
> >> 5. The "Arwen Dies" Award
> >> 6. The "Merry at the Black Gate" Award
> >> 7. The "Scouring? What Scouring?" Award
>
> ::snort:: Huge support over here for the "Scouring? What Scouring?" Award. I very much

like that one. Can I add another one to the RotK? What about the "Disappearance of the
Grey Company" Award. I understood why the Rangers weren't in the third film, but it still
irked me.

>
> Thundera

I felt much the same way. I *wanted* to see Halbarad, for one thing. But I'll save that rant
for another place...

I'm glad you liked my "Scouring? What Scouring?" idea. Does anyone else have any
additions? And Ainae, how shall we decide which one to go with.

Marta

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "Laura" <thunderalaura@j...> wrote:

>
>
> Marta wrote:
> >> I'd go with sites of libraries. How about:
> >>
> >> 1. The Imladris award
> >> 2. The Orthanc Award
> >> 3. The Minas Tirith Award
>
> I like those. Could we add "scrolls" to the title to make it sound more...scholarly?

Something like "The Imladris Scrolls Award" and "The Orthanc Scrolls Award." Just a
thought.

>
> Thundera

That would work, though I'd suggest "Scrolls of [X]" rather than "[X] Scrolls". Or maybe
even "Archives of [X]"?

Marta

Just a quick note: I'm going through these collecting suggestions on
the web since they're not in my inbox.

We already did change the Ring-Bearer of Bag End to The Mayor of
Hobbiton.

--Ainae

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "Marta" <MartaL0712@n...> wrote:
>
> --- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "ainaechoiriel" <mefaadmin@e...>
wrote:
> >
> > Let's look at our categories and their awards titles: (when
making
> > suggestions TRY for a grouping of three. I know it's not always
> > possible to have a brilliant thought in a group of three, but try
> > when possible.)
> >
> > Note: when replying, make a separate post for each category, and
use
> > a subject line to match. It will be easier to follow that way.
> >
>
> <snip>
> > c. Hobbits
> > 1) The Ring-bearer of Bag End Award
> > 2) The Master of Buckland Award
> > 3) The Thain of The Great Smials Award
> >
> > There has been quibbling about the order. Shall we change any of
> > these, swap the order around, etc.?
> >
>
> Thain needs to be "The Thain of Tookland" instead of "The Thain of
the Great Smials"
> award, I think? He is ruler of a whole clan, not just head of a
certain hole.
>
> Also, maybe should "The Ring-bearer of Bag End" to "The Mayor of
the Shire"? Those are
> the three major positions in the Shire. Thain, Master, Mayor.
>
> Also I stand by my earlier statement that the order should be
reversed:
>
> 1. Thain
> 2. Master
> 3. Mayor/Ring-bearer
>
> Marta

Ooh! If we go with texts, how about the Red Book of Westmarch?

> --- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "Laura" <thunderalaura@j...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Marta wrote:
> > >> I'd go with sites of libraries. How about:
> > >>
> > >> 1. The Imladris award
> > >> 2. The Orthanc Award
> > >> 3. The Minas Tirith Award
> >
> > I like those. Could we add "scrolls" to the title to make it sound more...scholarly?
> Something like "The Imladris Scrolls Award" and "The Orthanc Scrolls Award." Just a
> thought.
> >
> > Thundera
>
> That would work, though I'd suggest "Scrolls of [X]" rather than "[X] Scrolls". Or

maybe

> even "Archives of [X]"?
>
> Marta

>> I'd go with sites of libraries. How about:
>>
>> 1. The Imladris award
>> 2. The Orthanc Award
>> 3. The Minas Tirith Award

> I like those. Could we add "scrolls" to the
> title to make it sound more...scholarly?
> Something like "The Imladris Scrolls Award"
> and "The Orthanc Scrolls Award." Just a

thought.


Well given Ainae likes long titles... Howza bout
something like:

The Library of Imladris Award
The Scrolls of Orthanc Award
The Archives of Minas Tirith Award

??? What do ppl think? Just trying to put some
more variety into the titles!

Naresha

=====
~To forgive calls upon our love, to forget calls upon our strength~

AIM: Naresha21 MSN: candyman_gypsy@hotmail.com
ICQ: 142117881 Yahoo: fruitcake5m1
Personal LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/nareshaninya/
Writing LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/writingsofresha/

My Website! Slash Me Happy
http://www.websamba.com/SlashMeHappy

http://quiz.ravenblack.net/blood.pl?biter=Resha

Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.
http://au.movies.yahoo.com

--- Marta <MartaL0712@netscape.net> wrote:

---------------------------------

> i. Movie-Verse
>
> This might be a better place for "Arwen Stole

Glorfindel's Horse". ;-

> ) What other movie changes would make good

titles?

>

How about three main departures in the three
movies

> (FotR) 1. The "Arwen Steals Asfaloth" Award

1. The "Let's Skip the Old Forest"
Award

> (TTT) 2. The "Elves at Helm's Deep" Award

2. The "evil!Faramir" Award
2. The "Aragorn Dies" Award

> (RotK) *sigh*... entirely too many here...

1. The "Denethor's Missing Palantir"
Award
2. The "Retaking Osgiliath" Award
3. The "Go Home, Sam" Award
4. The "Legolas vs. the Mumak" Award
5. The "Arwen Dies" Award
6. The "Merry at the Black Gate" Award
7. The "Scouring? What Scouring?" Award

----

I like definately agree with "The Elves at Helm's
Deep award" and the "Arwen stole Asfolath Award"
but as for the RotK ones... The only
criticism/suggestion I would like to make is
perhaps find one that is equally well known as
the two I mentioned above. I for one don't
really know too many of those ones that are being
talked about - I remember some of the scenes in
the film, but they don't seem to be as well
talked about as BIG departures from the book. I
can't think of one atm b/c I'm not familiar
enough with the books, btu I'd like to see a
better know RotK departure for the third award.
But I do like the idea of having one from each
film/book.


Naresha

=====
~To forgive calls upon our love, to forget calls upon our strength~

AIM: Naresha21 MSN: candyman_gypsy@hotmail.com
ICQ: 142117881 Yahoo: fruitcake5m1
Personal LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/nareshaninya/
Writing LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/writingsofresha/

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http://www.websamba.com/SlashMeHappy

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--- Marta <MartaL0712@netscape.net> wrote:

---------------------------------

> d. Romance
> 1) The Luthien and Beren Award
> 2) The Tuor and Idril Award
> 3) The Aragorn and Arwen Award
>

> I recommended earlier that we change this to
> the three main romances of Lord of the Rings,
> as I think they would be more recognizable?
>
> 1st: The Aragorn and Arwen Award
> 2nd: The Faramir and Eowyn Award
> 3rd: The Sam and Rosie Award

Personally, I don't think them being
"recognisable" is too much of an issue. I don't
know a lot outside of LotR - but even I know of
Beren and Luthien! And for me - no offence Marta
- I don't think of Faramir/Eowyn and Sam/Rosie as
being icons of Tolkien romanticism. I mean.. Sam
adn Rosie was going to happen - just a matter of
when. With ppl like Aragorn and Arwen, there is
always that element of angst attached to it.

More suggestions:

The Túrin Turambar and Nienor Níniel Award
The Finwë and Miriel Award
The Treebeard (Fangorn) and Wandlimb (Fimbrethil)
Award
The Tom Bombadil and Goldberry Award
The Eöl and Aredhel Award

=====
~To forgive calls upon our love, to forget calls upon our strength~

AIM: Naresha21 MSN: candyman_gypsy@hotmail.com
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Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.
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I prefer Marta's suggestion's over having the three main human-elf
romances. I mean, apart from Luthien and Beren, the elf-human
relationships aren't the greatest of Tolkien romanticism icons either.
At least, that's how it always appeared to me.
It was quite uncommon for an elf and another species to become
romantically involved. However, I feel Luthien and Beren should still
be up there, simply because of their symbolism.

Another problem with having romance as

> 1) The Luthien and Beren Award
> 2) The Tuor and Idril Award
> 3) The Aragorn and Arwen Award

is Aegnor and Andreth don't get mentioned this way. I know they didn't
get married, but I think their relationship is significant. There's
also Mithrellas and the first Lord of Dol Amroth.

Also, what if the winners' story had nothing to do with elves or
humans? Marta's sugggestion would also bring similar problems. Perhaps
we could have four different options-elf/elf, elf/men, men/men,
hobbit/hobbit- for first, second, and third place? Then the winner
could pick which one is more fitting to their story. For example...

Romance
1) a. Elrond and Celebrian
b. Luthien and Beren
c. Faramir and Eowyn
d. Samwise and Rosie

2) a. Galadriel and Celeborn
b. Arwen and Aragorn
c. Gilraen and Arathorn II
d. Peregrin and Diamond

3) a. Feanor and Nerdanel
b. Tuor and Idril
c. Denethor and Finduilas
d. Drogo and Primula

Perhaps it's a bit much. ^__^

Well... that's my two slips of latinum.
~Bridilliel

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 20:04:09 +1100 (EST), Naresha
<north_shore_fruitcake@yahoo.com.au> wrote:

>
> --- Marta <MartaL0712@netscape.net> wrote:
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
> > d. Romance
> > 1) The Luthien and Beren Award
> > 2) The Tuor and Idril Award
> > 3) The Aragorn and Arwen Award
> >
>
> > I recommended earlier that we change this to
> > the three main romances of Lord of the Rings,
> > as I think they would be more recognizable?
> >
> > 1st: The Aragorn and Arwen Award
> > 2nd: The Faramir and Eowyn Award
> > 3rd: The Sam and Rosie Award
>
>
> Personally, I don't think them being
> "recognisable" is too much of an issue. I don't
> know a lot outside of LotR - but even I know of
> Beren and Luthien! And for me - no offence Marta
> - I don't think of Faramir/Eowyn and Sam/Rosie as
> being icons of Tolkien romanticism. I mean.. Sam
> adn Rosie was going to happen - just a matter of
> when. With ppl like Aragorn and Arwen, there is
> always that element of angst attached to it.
>
> More suggestions:
>
> The Túrin Turambar and Nienor Níniel Award
> The Finwë and Miriel Award
> The Treebeard (Fangorn) and Wandlimb (Fimbrethil)
> Award
> The Tom Bombadil and Goldberry Award
> The Eöl and Aredhel Award
>
> =====
> ~To forgive calls upon our love, to forget calls upon our strength~
>
> AIM: Naresha21 MSN: candyman_gypsy@hotmail.com
> ICQ: 142117881 Yahoo: fruitcake5m1
> Personal LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/nareshaninya/
> Writing LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/writingsofresha/
>
> My Website! Slash Me Happy
> http://www.websamba.com/SlashMeHappy
>
> http://quiz.ravenblack.net/blood.pl?biter=Resha
>
> Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.
> http://au.movies.yahoo.com
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

-----Original Message-----
From: Bridilliel Nealay [mailto:Bridilliel@gmail.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2005 12:03 PM
To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MEFAwards] Re: New Categories and Awards Titles (Romance)

>I prefer Marta's suggestion's over having the three main human-elf

romances. I mean, apart from Luthien and Beren, the elf-human
relationships aren't the greatest of Tolkien romanticism icons either.
At least, that's how it always appeared to me.
It was quite uncommon for an elf and another species to become
romantically involved. However, I feel Luthien and Beren should still
be up there, simply because of their symbolism.

The reason I picked the three main Elf/Man unions was because they WERE
rare. And each of the three were important.

>Another problem with having romance as
> 1) The Luthien and Beren Award
> 2) The Tuor and Idril Award
> 3) The Aragorn and Arwen Award

is Aegnor and Andreth don't get mentioned this way. I know they didn't
get married, but I think their relationship is significant. There's
also Mithrellas and the first Lord of Dol Amroth.

Yes, Luthien and Beren were first. But Tuor and Idril were very important,
too. Their offspring is Earindil. And we all know who he is. If he hadn't
been part Man and part Elf, he couldn't have been the one to do what he did.
Andreth and Aegnor cannot be put into the same category. They are a story.
And Mithrellas and the first Lord of Dol Amroth is a legend (though perhaps
based in truth, a legend still). We all can agree that Luthien and Beren
and Aragorn and Arwen are very important, but take a closer look at Idril
and Tuor and you'll see that these two are far more important than the other
pairs you mentioned.

>Also, what if the winners' story had nothing to do with elves or

humans? Marta's sugggestion would also bring similar problems. Perhaps
we could have four different options-elf/elf, elf/men, men/men,
hobbit/hobbit- for first, second, and third place? Then the winner
could pick which one is more fitting to their story. For example...

You perhaps weren't around when this came up last year. The Awards titles
have nothing to do with the stories that win. They have to do with the
category. Period. Any Adventure story could win the Battle of Helm's Deep
Award. It didn't have to feature Helm's Deep. So "no" to all your breakdown
of suggestions.

--Ainaechoiriel
Whose sigs have gotten lost again.

-----Original Message-----
From: Naresha [mailto:north_shore_fruitcake@yahoo.com.au]
Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2005 11:53 PM
To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MEFAwards] Re: New Categories and Awards Titles (Nonfiction)

>Well given Ainae likes long titles... Howza bout

something like:

>The Library of Imladris Award

The Scrolls of Orthanc Award
The Archives of Minas Tirith Award

>??? What do ppl think? Just trying to put some

more variety into the titles!

Thank you! I wasn't quite sure what to do with those suggestions yet, but I
knew I didn't want them to all be Scrolls of, Scrolls of, Scrolls of. I do
like the variety!

--Ainaechoiriel

MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards

Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com

My thoughts on award titles

> d. Dwarves

If not places, which would be good, how about famous dwarves:

1) The Durin the Deathless Award
2) The Thorin Oakenshield Award
3) The Gimli Son of Gloin Award

Which is also one from the Silm, more or less, one from The Hobbit,
and one from LOTR

> f. Cross-Cultural

If we don't use Luthien and Beren in Romance, they could also fit in
here.

> d. Romance

I like
1) Arwen and Aragorn
2) Faramir and Eowyn
3) Sam and Rosie

> h. Alternate-Universe

Common AU plots would be good. I'm not too familiar with what some
would be, besides Boromir Lives. Tenth Walker, maybe?

> i. Movie-Verse

I still like
1) Arwen at the Fords
2) Elves at Helms Deep
3) Going to Osgiliath

If we really wanted one from each movie, we could use "Sam, Go Home."
But then we'd have to choose from Elves at Helms Deep and Goining to
Osgiliath for TTT, and both of those are more significant changes to
the plot, to me.

> j. Non-Fiction

How about famous writings:
1) The Red Book of Westmarch
2) The Book of Mazarbul (sp?)
3) The Scroll of Isildur
also
Translations from the Elvish
There and Back Again

> d. Post-Ring War

I really like
1) Eldarion
2) Elboron
3) Elfwine

As the three leaders of Men in the next generation. The Fourth Age is
the Age of Men, after all.

>I actually think this is the fun part. :-)

Me too!

Elana

--- Ainaechoiriel <mefaadmin@earthlink.net>
wrote:

> > The Library of Imladris Award
> > The Scrolls of Orthanc Award
> > The Archives of Minas Tirith Award
>
> Thank you! I wasn't quite sure what to do with
> those suggestions yet, but I knew I didn't want
> them to all be Scrolls of, Scrolls of, Scrolls
> of. I do like the variety!
>
> --Ainaechoiriel

LOL! Thought you might! I like scrolls - but
generally the type that have jam and apple and
stuff inside them! ;-P

Resha


=====
~To forgive calls upon our love, to forget calls upon our strength~

AIM: Naresha21 MSN: candyman_gypsy@hotmail.com
ICQ: 142117881 Yahoo: fruitcake5m1
Personal LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/nareshaninya/
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Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.
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I know Ainae has replied on this - but just to
add another perspective to it all... :-P

To do your system would require us to create 12,
or 16 different banners minimum. Given we vote
on the designs - I'm assuming we will do the same
thing this year as last year - we need variety.
We seemed to have a little trouble getting the
bare miniumum of three for each category in the
2004 MEFAs - so god only knows how we would get
nearly 20 for just one category!!!

Resha, just adding her two cents as usual.


--- Bridilliel Nealay <Bridilliel@gmail.com>
wrote:

---------------------------------

Also, what if the winners' story had nothing to
do with elves or humans? Marta's sugggestion
would also bring similar problems. Perhaps
we could have four different options-elf/elf,
elf/men, men/men, hobbit/hobbit- for first,
second, and third place? Then the winner could
pick which one is more fitting to their story.
For example...

Romance
1) a. Elrond and Celebrian
b. Luthien and Beren
c. Faramir and Eowyn
d. Samwise and Rosie

2) a. Galadriel and Celeborn
b. Arwen and Aragorn
c. Gilraen and Arathorn II
d. Peregrin and Diamond

3) a. Feanor and Nerdanel
b. Tuor and Idril
c. Denethor and Finduilas
d. Drogo and Primula


=====
~To forgive calls upon our love, to forget calls upon our strength~

AIM: Naresha21 MSN: candyman_gypsy@hotmail.com
ICQ: 142117881 Yahoo: fruitcake5m1
Personal LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/nareshaninya/
Writing LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/writingsofresha/

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http://quiz.ravenblack.net/blood.pl?biter=Resha

Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.
http://au.movies.yahoo.com

> > > The Library of Imladris Award
> > > The Scrolls of Orthanc Award
> > > The Archives of Minas Tirith Award
> >

I especially like these choices.

Sulriel

I really like these two:

"Scouring? What Scouring?"
"Disappearance of the Grey Company"

and for a third, I think Halbarad could have his own award.

"What happened to Halbarad?" Award

(..and I have several thoughts about the Grey Company and Swan
Knights sitting out the battle, but I'll resist.)

Sulriel

The Library of Imladris Award
The Scrolls of Orthanc Award
The Archives of Minas Tirith Award


Excellent choices expanding on the size of the collections as well.

RiverOtter

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "sulriel" <Sulriel@h...> wrote:

>
> > > > The Library of Imladris Award
> > > > The Scrolls of Orthanc Award
> > > > The Archives of Minas Tirith Award
> > >
>
>
> I especially like these choices.
>
> Sulriel

As do I.

Marta

sulriel wrote:

>> I really like these two:
>>
>> "Scouring? What Scouring?"
>> "Disappearance of the Grey Company"
>>
>> and for a third, I think Halbarad could have his own award.
>>
>> "What happened to Halbarad?" Award
>>
>> (..and I have several thoughts about the Grey Company and Swan
>> Knights sitting out the battle, but I'll resist.)

Oh, yeah, that's where all the horses went at the Morannon. Didn't you know? ;) When Aragorn, Gandalf, Gimli, Legolas, Eomer, and co. ditched the horses, Imrahil, Beregond, and Halbarad took them away and enjoyed popcorn and sodas on the sidelines. **wanders away grumbling**


Thundera Tiger

(quotes are from Elana...)

[Dwarves]

> If not places, which would be good, how about famous dwarves:
>
> 1) The Durin the Deathless Award
> 2) The Thorin Oakenshield Award
> 3) The Gimli Son of Gloin Award
>
> Which is also one from the Silm, more or less, one from The Hobbit,
> and one from LOTR
>

Those would be good categories. But is there any art of Thorin? I
don't even remember that many book illustrations of Thorin
specifically, and while I haven't seen all the fanart available by
any means, I can't remember *any* with him. (I guess there might be
the same problem for Durin, but I think you could use art of Moria
for those banners, not just of Durin himself.)

Maybe we could broaden the second award to include *all* of The
Hobbit dwarves? Maybe, "The Thorin Oakenshield and Company Award" or
something like that? I can think of some nice bookart with the whole
company of Dwarves, and you could use movie shots from the Council
scene, since I guess at least one of those dwarves is supposed to be
Gloin.

[Cross-cultural]

> If we don't use Luthien and Beren in Romance, they could also fit in
> here.
>

That would be a good one for here. Or even Thingol and Melian?

[Romance]

> I like
> 1) Arwen and Aragorn
> 2) Faramir and Eowyn
> 3) Sam and Rosie
>
>

Of course I like those myself (having suggested them...) but I
understand that some people have objections. I suggested these three
names for two reasons:

1. More people have read _The Lord of the Rings_ than _The
Silmarillion_. (There aren't any romances in _The Hobbit_, at least
not that I can remember offhand.) So I think more people will be
familiar with those couples than are familiar with Beren/Luthien and
Tuor/Idril.

2. Of the stories entered this year, I'm almost certain there weren't
any Tuor/Idril ones, and I don't think there were any Beren/Luthien
ones either, or at least not very many. On the other hand,
Faramir/Eowyn was its own subcategory, and there was also a Hobbits
one. (I know, not exclusively Sam/Rosie...) It makes sense to honour
these popular pairings with an award themed to them.

I wasn't trying to comment on the importance in canon of one pairing
over another... more on their relative popularity in the fandom. And
I'm hardly impartial! As I've said, before I don't care much for
Elves, and until recently I didn't read Silmfics at all. So I'm not
that familiar with who gets a lot written about them and who doesn't.

[Movie-verse]

> I still like
> 1) Arwen at the Fords
> 2) Elves at Helms Deep
> 3) Going to Osgiliath
>
> If we really wanted one from each movie, we could use "Sam, Go

Home."

> But then we'd have to choose from Elves at Helms Deep and Goining

to

> Osgiliath for TTT, and both of those are more significant changes to
> the plot, to me.
>

I see what you're saying, an I don't have any major objections to
that. Is there any way to phrase the last one so it applies to all
the changes in Osgiliath from book-verse, both in TTT and ROTK.
Perhaps "The 'Osgiliath is Overrun' Award"?

Marta

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marta [mailto:MartaL0712@netscape.net]
> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 1:32 PM
> To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [MEFAwards] Re: New Categories and Awards Titles (several)
>
>
>
> (quotes are from Elana...)
>
> [Dwarves]
> > If not places, which would be good, how about famous dwarves:
> >
> > 1) The Durin the Deathless Award
> > 2) The Thorin Oakenshield Award
> > 3) The Gimli Son of Gloin Award
> >
> > Which is also one from the Silm, more or less, one from The Hobbit,
> > and one from LOTR
> >
>
> Those would be good categories. But is there any art of
> Thorin? I don't even remember that many book illustrations of
> Thorin specifically, and while I haven't seen all the fanart
> available by any means, I can't remember *any* with him. (I
> guess there might be the same problem for Durin, but I think
> you could use art of Moria for those banners, not just of
> Durin himself.)
>
> Maybe we could broaden the second award to include *all* of
> The Hobbit dwarves? Maybe, "The Thorin Oakenshield and
> Company Award" or something like that? I can think of some
> nice bookart with the whole company of Dwarves, and you could
> use movie shots from the Council scene, since I guess at
> least one of those dwarves is supposed to be Gloin.

Remember that art such as that may be copyrighted. I will say again here
for everyone's benefit, the MEFAs will not be held responsible for not
having permission for someone's art. The person submitting the banner that
uses said art should make sure they are free to do so. If it is submitted,
I will assume that it is. That's one reason I used screencaps for most of
mine. If I capture them or scan them, mix them, etc., they're good. Other
options for people is to draw their own. Just don't go using Alan Lee's
drawings, for example, without making sure you're not breaking any laws or
likely to get us sued.

>
> [Cross-cultural]
> > If we don't use Luthien and Beren in Romance, they could
> also fit in
> > here.
> >
>
> That would be a good one for here. Or even Thingol and Melian?

I added them to both Cross-Cultural and Romance. ;-) Suggestions, of
course. Nothing final yet.

> [Romance]
> > I like
> > 1) Arwen and Aragorn
> > 2) Faramir and Eowyn
> > 3) Sam and Rosie
> >
> >
>
> Of course I like those myself (having suggested them...) but
> I understand that some people have objections. I suggested
> these three names for two reasons:
>
> 1. More people have read _The Lord of the Rings_ than _The
> Silmarillion_. (There aren't any romances in _The Hobbit_, at
> least not that I can remember offhand.) So I think more
> people will be familiar with those couples than are familiar
> with Beren/Luthien and Tuor/Idril.
>
> 2. Of the stories entered this year, I'm almost certain there
> weren't any Tuor/Idril ones, and I don't think there were any
> Beren/Luthien ones either, or at least not very many. On the
> other hand, Faramir/Eowyn was its own subcategory, and there
> was also a Hobbits one. (I know, not exclusively
> Sam/Rosie...) It makes sense to honour these popular pairings
> with an award themed to them.

Remember that the titles don't need to reflect the stories, but the
category. And Tuor and Idril and Luthien and Beren certainly did that, even
if there were no stories about them.

> I wasn't trying to comment on the importance in canon of one
> pairing over another... more on their relative popularity in
> the fandom. And I'm hardly impartial! As I've said, before I
> don't care much for Elves, and until recently I didn't read
> Silmfics at all. So I'm not that familiar with who gets a lot
> written about them and who doesn't.

Don't care much for Elves? What's wrong with you woman?! ;-)

>
> [Movie-verse]
> > I still like
> > 1) Arwen at the Fords
> > 2) Elves at Helms Deep
> > 3) Going to Osgiliath
> >
> > If we really wanted one from each movie, we could use "Sam, Go
> Home."
> > But then we'd have to choose from Elves at Helms Deep and Goining
> to
> > Osgiliath for TTT, and both of those are more significant
> changes to
> > the plot, to me.
> >
>
> I see what you're saying, an I don't have any major
> objections to that. Is there any way to phrase the last one
> so it applies to all the changes in Osgiliath from
> book-verse, both in TTT and ROTK.
> Perhaps "The 'Osgiliath is Overrun' Award"?
>

I think there are going to be a LOT of polls. I'm trying to figure how to do
this with the fewest polls possible, but I'm just not sure.

--Ainaechoiriel

MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards

Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com

Hi Ainae,

Sorry I've taken a few days getting back to you. I seem to have
finally shaken my head cold, at least a bit, and so I can stare at a
computer screen long enough to answer this.

> > (quotes are from Elana...)
> >
> > [Dwarves]
> > > If not places, which would be good, how about famous dwarves:
> > >
> > > 1) The Durin the Deathless Award
> > > 2) The Thorin Oakenshield Award
> > > 3) The Gimli Son of Gloin Award
> > >
> > > Which is also one from the Silm, more or less, one from The

Hobbit,

> > > and one from LOTR
> > >
> >
> > Those would be good categories. But is there any art of
> > Thorin? I don't even remember that many book illustrations of
> > Thorin specifically, and while I haven't seen all the fanart
> > available by any means, I can't remember *any* with him. (I
> > guess there might be the same problem for Durin, but I think
> > you could use art of Moria for those banners, not just of
> > Durin himself.)
> >
> > Maybe we could broaden the second award to include *all* of
> > The Hobbit dwarves? Maybe, "The Thorin Oakenshield and
> > Company Award" or something like that? I can think of some
> > nice bookart with the whole company of Dwarves, and you could
> > use movie shots from the Council scene, since I guess at
> > least one of those dwarves is supposed to be Gloin.
>
> Remember that art such as that may be copyrighted. I will say again

here

> for everyone's benefit, the MEFAs will not be held responsible for

not

> having permission for someone's art. The person submitting the

banner that

> uses said art should make sure they are free to do so. If it is

submitted,

> I will assume that it is. That's one reason I used screencaps for

most of

> mine. If I capture them or scan them, mix them, etc., they're good.

Other

> options for people is to draw their own. Just don't go using Alan

Lee's

> drawings, for example, without making sure you're not breaking any

laws or

> likely to get us sued.
>

Thanks for re-iterating that. (As the *cause* for this particular
rule, I don't think you can repeat it too often! I'm still embarrassed
at having used someone else's fanart without thinking to ask for
permission. *blushes*)

I'm not that familiar with fanart. *Are* there any pictures of just
Thorin out there? (You'd certainly need to get permission, but I think
most fan-artists are more approachable than professional illustrators.
) And like I said, you could use screencaps from the Council of Elrond
of the dwarf-extras (one of them *has* to be Gloin ;-) )

This is the last I'll say on this subject - it's really not that
important. But what about the Khazad-dum / Erebor / Aglarond scheme?
Maybe we should do a poll on whether the Dwarves awards names should
come from Dwarven homelands, or famous dwarves?

> > [Cross-cultural]

<snip>

> > [Romance]
> > > I like
> > > 1) Arwen and Aragorn
> > > 2) Faramir and Eowyn
> > > 3) Sam and Rosie
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Of course I like those myself (having suggested them...) but
> > I understand that some people have objections. I suggested
> > these three names for two reasons:
> >
> > 1. More people have read _The Lord of the Rings_ than _The
> > Silmarillion_. (There aren't any romances in _The Hobbit_, at
> > least not that I can remember offhand.) So I think more
> > people will be familiar with those couples than are familiar
> > with Beren/Luthien and Tuor/Idril.
> >
> > 2. Of the stories entered this year, I'm almost certain there
> > weren't any Tuor/Idril ones, and I don't think there were any
> > Beren/Luthien ones either, or at least not very many. On the
> > other hand, Faramir/Eowyn was its own subcategory, and there
> > was also a Hobbits one. (I know, not exclusively
> > Sam/Rosie...) It makes sense to honour these popular pairings
> > with an award themed to them.
>
> Remember that the titles don't need to reflect the stories, but the
> category. And Tuor and Idril and Luthien and Beren certainly did

that, even

> if there were no stories about them.
>

I understand what you're saying -- but I think they should be what
most people think of when they think of this category. I've admitted
to being a total Silm-phobic (although I did write my first Silm poem
last night *sigh* - damn pesky muses, the type of story I won't write
is ever-shrinking.)

Sorry, got distracted there. I was saying I don't think in Silm terms,
and the first time I read those categories I actually had to think for
quite a few seconds

Anyway, this is another one of those things I'm not going to fight you
on. I've tried to explain my reasoning as best I can, and I think some
people have commented both for and against it. Maybe this should be
the subject of another poll? Give people two choices - Elf-man couples
or my suggestions - and whichever wins is the scheme we go with. That
is, unless this is one of your non-negotiables.

> > I wasn't trying to comment on the importance in canon of one
> > pairing over another... more on their relative popularity in
> > the fandom. And I'm hardly impartial! As I've said, before I
> > don't care much for Elves, and until recently I didn't read
> > Silmfics at all. So I'm not that familiar with who gets a lot
> > written about them and who doesn't.
>
> Don't care much for Elves? What's wrong with you woman?! ;-)
>

I honestly don't know why. I guess Men just seems so much more dynamic
to me. Plus Men, for all the intricacies of their culture, seem less
enigmatic to me than elves. So many elves are just mentioned in
passing, and aren't really developed in the same way Men are.

> > [Movie-verse]
> > > I still like
> > > 1) Arwen at the Fords
> > > 2) Elves at Helms Deep
> > > 3) Going to Osgiliath
> > >
> > > If we really wanted one from each movie, we could use "Sam, Go
> > Home."
> > > But then we'd have to choose from Elves at Helms Deep and

Goining

> > to
> > > Osgiliath for TTT, and both of those are more significant
> > changes to
> > > the plot, to me.
> > >
> >
> > I see what you're saying, an I don't have any major
> > objections to that. Is there any way to phrase the last one
> > so it applies to all the changes in Osgiliath from
> > book-verse, both in TTT and ROTK.
> > Perhaps "The 'Osgiliath is Overrun' Award"?
> >
>
> I think there are going to be a LOT of polls. I'm trying to figure

how to do

> this with the fewest polls possible, but I'm just not sure.
>

I don't know whether we really need a poll on this one. I think most
people who have commented like those three.

But you're right, we probably *will* need a lot of polls.

Marta