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One of our Staff members brought up a good question about Non-fiction
nominations and categorization. While we require top 3 choices for every
nomination to be Complete, it doesnt' always work for Non-fiction. I could
see two categories, but three might be too far a stretch.

Obviously, Genrees:Non-Fiction would be first choice. I could see one of
the Books/Time categories being a second. (An essay about Aragorn, for
example, would also fit in the LOTR category). But Drama? Humor? (possibly)


Can we make an exception to the 3 choices rule for Non-fiction?

Can we make an exception so that even only one choice can be made? While I
see this as a potential good idea, I see it also as a potential problem.
What if Non-Fiction is not viable? Where would those essays go? Last year,
we had one or two essays and they ran with fiction. Would we let this
year's essays run with fiction nominations if Non-Fiction becomes
non-viable?

Your thoughts, please?

--Ainaechoiriel

MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

<http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa> http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The
Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards

Blog: <http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com/>
http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "Ainaechoiriel" <mefaadmin@e...>
wrote:

> One of our Staff members brought up a good question about
> Non-fiction nominations and categorization. While we require top 3
> choices for every nomination to be Complete, it doesnt' always work
> for Non-fiction. I could see two categories, but three might be
> too far a stretch.
>
> Obviously, Genrees:Non-Fiction would be first choice. I could see
> one of the Books/Time categories being a second. (An essay about
> Aragorn, for example, would also fit in the LOTR category). But
> Drama? Humor? (possibly)

Well, I think an non-fiction piece can be about elves or men as well,
so the third category for races/places might apply as well.

I am just wondering where you would leave essays about things like
swords. Like for example an essay/article about the blades of
Westernesse. (That would be: Silmarillion maybe LOTR, Non-fiction, and
races/places: men or hobbits)

> Can we make an exception so that even only one choice can be made?
> While I see this as a potential good idea, I see it also as a
> potential problem. What if Non-Fiction is not viable? Where would
> those essays go? Last year, we had one or two essays and they ran
> with fiction. Would we let this year's essays run with fiction
> nominations if Non-Fiction becomes non-viable?

Hmm, I am not sure how you can run an non-fictional story with
fiction. If it is an essay about an event like a battle.. I wasn't
around last year, so which non-fiction pieces ran with the fictional
stories?

Rhapsody

So a category is only viable if there are 20+ entries? (If I'm
reading 'the rules' correctly) That's an awful lot to expect of
non-fiction but I don't think they should be lumped in with the
fictions.

I know it probably should be discussed in a post-mortem, but can't it
be that the non-fiction groups don't need as many submissions?
Because I doubt there would ever be 20 essays eligible in a single
year and yet there are some excellent/deserving non-fiction articles
that should be awarded.

Leaward

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "Ainaechoiriel" <mefaadmin@e...> wrote:
> One of our Staff members brought up a good question about Non-fiction
> nominations and categorization. While we require top 3 choices for
every
> nomination to be Complete, it doesnt' always work for Non-fiction.
I could
> see two categories, but three might be too far a stretch.
>
> Obviously, Genrees:Non-Fiction would be first choice. I could see
one of
> the Books/Time categories being a second. (An essay about Aragorn, for
> example, would also fit in the LOTR category). But Drama? Humor?
(possibly)
>
>
> Can we make an exception to the 3 choices rule for Non-fiction?
>
> Can we make an exception so that even only one choice can be made?
While I
> see this as a potential good idea, I see it also as a potential problem.
> What if Non-Fiction is not viable? Where would those essays go?
Last year,
> we had one or two essays and they ran with fiction. Would we let this
> year's essays run with fiction nominations if Non-Fiction becomes
> non-viable?
>
> Your thoughts, please?
>
> --Ainaechoiriel
>
> MEFA Admin and Founder
>
> "This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond
said, "for
> it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.
>
> <http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa> http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The
> Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards
>
> Blog: <http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com/>
> http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Apr 5, 2005 2:42 PM, Leaward <leaward_l@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
> So a category is only viable if there are 20+ entries? (If I'm
> reading 'the rules' correctly) That's an awful lot to expect of
> non-fiction but I don't think they should be lumped in with the
> fictions.
>

Where are you getting the 20+ entries? I haven't read the rules this
year, but last year it was five entries by I think a minimum of three
authors. So for example I could have two of my essays nominated, Ainae
could have two essays by her nominated, and you could have an essay
nominated - five essays, three authors. Last year that would have been
a viable category. But maybe the rules have changed.

Marta

> I know it probably should be discussed in a post-mortem, but can't it
> be that the non-fiction groups don't need as many submissions?
> Because I doubt there would ever be 20 essays eligible in a single
> year and yet there are some excellent/deserving non-fiction articles
> that should be awarded.
>
> Leaward
>
> --- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "Ainaechoiriel" <mefaadmin@e...> wrote:
> > One of our Staff members brought up a good question about Non-fiction
> > nominations and categorization. While we require top 3 choices for
> every
> > nomination to be Complete, it doesnt' always work for Non-fiction.
> I could
> > see two categories, but three might be too far a stretch.
> >
> > Obviously, Genrees:Non-Fiction would be first choice. I could see
> one of
> > the Books/Time categories being a second. (An essay about Aragorn, for
> > example, would also fit in the LOTR category). But Drama? Humor?
> (possibly)
> >
> >
> > Can we make an exception to the 3 choices rule for Non-fiction?
> >
> > Can we make an exception so that even only one choice can be made?
> While I
> > see this as a potential good idea, I see it also as a potential problem.
> > What if Non-Fiction is not viable? Where would those essays go?
> Last year,
> > we had one or two essays and they ran with fiction. Would we let this
> > year's essays run with fiction nominations if Non-Fiction becomes
> > non-viable?
> >
> > Your thoughts, please?
> >
> > --Ainaechoiriel
> >
> > MEFA Admin and Founder
> >
> > "This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond
> said, "for
> > it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.
> >
> > <http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa> http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The
> > Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards
> >
> > Blog: <http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com/>
> > http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> MEFAwards-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

--
"Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our greatest fear is
that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness
that most frightens us. [...] As we let our own light shine, we
unconsciously give other people permission to do the same."

(Nelson Mandela)

Maybe I'm interpreting it wrong but this is what was sent to me when I
joined...

IV. Categorization
A. Any category set by a lower level can be changed by a higher level.
1. Authors have the highest level.
a. Unless a viable category cannot be acheived.
*b. And unless a subcategory becomes a viable main category.
(Requires 20 stories.)
2. Highest authority then falls to the Administrator or Staff.
B. Any suggested category must have at least 5 stories (or poems) by
at least 2 authors to be a viable category

1. Author categories must have at least 3 authors to be viable.

... OK, I was reading the thing about 20 stories for a subcategory to
become a viable MAIN category. You're right, suggested categories
must have at least 5 stories by 2 authors.

By the way, the rules still say that it has to be a story posted
before March 31, 2004 ... Um, think by these rules, most of the
stories are ineligible ;)

So does that mean as long as they're marked as non-fiction in the main
category (considering there are 6 or 7 entries now) the non-fiction
stories will be a viable category?

Lea

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, Marta Layton <melayton@g...> wrote:
> On Apr 5, 2005 2:42 PM, Leaward <leaward_l@y...> wrote:
> >
> > So a category is only viable if there are 20+ entries? (If I'm
> > reading 'the rules' correctly) That's an awful lot to expect of
> > non-fiction but I don't think they should be lumped in with the
> > fictions.
> >
>
> Where are you getting the 20+ entries? I haven't read the rules this
> year, but last year it was five entries by I think a minimum of three
> authors. So for example I could have two of my essays nominated, Ainae
> could have two essays by her nominated, and you could have an essay
> nominated - five essays, three authors. Last year that would have been
> a viable category. But maybe the rules have changed.
>
> Marta
>
> > I know it probably should be discussed in a post-mortem, but can't it
> > be that the non-fiction groups don't need as many submissions?
> > Because I doubt there would ever be 20 essays eligible in a single
> > year and yet there are some excellent/deserving non-fiction articles
> > that should be awarded.
> >
> > Leaward
> >
> > --- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "Ainaechoiriel"
<mefaadmin@e...> wrote:
> > > One of our Staff members brought up a good question about
Non-fiction
> > > nominations and categorization. While we require top 3 choices for
> > every
> > > nomination to be Complete, it doesnt' always work for Non-fiction.
> > I could
> > > see two categories, but three might be too far a stretch.
> > >
> > > Obviously, Genrees:Non-Fiction would be first choice. I could see
> > one of
> > > the Books/Time categories being a second. (An essay about
Aragorn, for
> > > example, would also fit in the LOTR category). But Drama? Humor?
> > (possibly)
> > >
> > >
> > > Can we make an exception to the 3 choices rule for Non-fiction?
> > >
> > > Can we make an exception so that even only one choice can be made?
> > While I
> > > see this as a potential good idea, I see it also as a potential
problem.
> > > What if Non-Fiction is not viable? Where would those essays go?
> > Last year,
> > > we had one or two essays and they ran with fiction. Would we
let this
> > > year's essays run with fiction nominations if Non-Fiction becomes
> > > non-viable?
> > >
> > > Your thoughts, please?
> > >
> > > --Ainaechoiriel
> > >
> > > MEFA Admin and Founder
> > >
> > > "This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond
> > said, "for
> > > it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.
> > >
> > > <http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa>
http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The
> > > Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards
> > >
> > > Blog: <http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com/>
> > > http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> > To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > MEFAwards-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
> --
> "Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our greatest fear is
> that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness
> that most frightens us. [...] As we let our own light shine, we
> unconsciously give other people permission to do the same."
>
> (Nelson Mandela)

Hi Leaward,

On Apr 5, 2005 3:28 PM, Leaward <leaward_l@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Maybe I'm interpreting it wrong but this is what was sent to me when I
> joined...
>

<snip>
Thanks for citing that - I can always do with a good reminder.

> By the way, the rules still say that it has to be a story posted
> before March 31, 2004 ... Um, think by these rules, most of the
> stories are ineligible ;)
>

Lol, yes. That does need to be revised - stories must be posted by
March 31, *2005*.

> So does that mean as long as they're marked as non-fiction in the main
> category (considering there are 6 or 7 entries now) the non-fiction
> stories will be a viable category?
>

I think so. This is how I understand it:

1. A category is viable if it receives five nominations by two
authors. This isn't usually a problem.

2. A subcategory is viable if it receives five nominations by two
authors. This can be a problem for mandatory subcategories like WIPs.
What if there are only three WIPs nominated with "Silmarillion" as
their first choice? We either have to move them to other appropriate
categories that *do* have a viable WIP subcategory, or move WIPs from
other categories into "Silmarillion". Maybe Elves also has three WIPs,
and two of those deal with Silmarillion elves; those two Elves WIPs
could be moved to Silmarillion, and the third one would have to be
moved to some other category.

3. This year we have something called graduated categories. That means
if a subcategory gets really big it can become its own category. For
instance, what if there are 23 stories set in Gondor nominated for the
Men category? That's a pretty big subcategory, bigger than many main
categories. Gondor could then graduate to become its own main
category.

So 5 stories and 2 authors = viable category or sub-category
20 stories = viable *graduated* category - a new category that we
weren't originally going to offer.

Marta
--
"Our greatest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our greatest fear is
that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness
that most frightens us. [...] As we let our own light shine, we
unconsciously give other people permission to do the same."

(Nelson Mandela)

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, Marta Layton <melayton@g...> wrote:

>
> > By the way, the rules still say that it has to be a story posted
> > before March 31, 2004 ... Um, think by these rules, most of the
> > stories are ineligible ;)
> >
>
> Lol, yes. That does need to be revised - stories must be posted by
> March 31, *2005*.

Eek. Thanks. I had it right on the web version, but not on the text.
Thanks.

> > So does that mean as long as they're marked as non-fiction in

the main

> > category (considering there are 6 or 7 entries now) the non-

fiction

> > stories will be a viable category?

Yes. It looks like we'll have enough this year (if we get all the
permissions, etc.), but we still have to decide if non-fiction
nominations require 3 choices to be Complete, just like every other
story. Or do we allow an execption in their case? And if so, what
about when we don't have enough to be viable?

> I think so. This is how I understand it:
>
> 1. A category is viable if it receives five nominations by two
> authors. This isn't usually a problem.

You'd be surprised. We had to work hard to make some categories
viable last year. This year, we've decided not to work so hard. If a
main category isn't viable, it won't run.

> 2. A subcategory is viable if it receives five nominations by two
> authors. This can be a problem for mandatory subcategories like

WIPs.

> What if there are only three WIPs nominated with "Silmarillion" as
> their first choice? We either have to move them to other appropriate
> categories that *do* have a viable WIP subcategory, or move WIPs

from

> other categories into "Silmarillion". Maybe Elves also has three

WIPs,

> and two of those deal with Silmarillion elves; those two Elves WIPs
> could be moved to Silmarillion, and the third one would have to be
> moved to some other category.

We'd try the 2nd choice with an Incomplete subcategory. The only
time this changes is when an incomplete story gets completed after
Nomination Season. We'd move it to a completed-story category and
leave the Incomplete subcategory as it is, even if it's not
technically viable. This year, we are going to try to go with
everyone's first choice. If that doesn't work, their second. We
don't want to do much moving to make catogories viable, as opposed to
moving stories out of an unviable category. The exception to that
would be when two like and compatible subcategories are unviable and
would make a viable subcategory together.

> 3. This year we have something called graduated categories. That

means

> if a subcategory gets really big it can become its own category. For
> instance, what if there are 23 stories set in Gondor nominated for

the

> Men category? That's a pretty big subcategory, bigger than many main
> categories. Gondor could then graduate to become its own main
> category.
>
> So 5 stories and 2 authors = viable category or sub-category
> 20 stories = viable *graduated* category - a new category that we
> weren't originally going to offer.

Yes. Last year, we had Rohan, and Numenor categories. Which weren't
very large. But we had Men/Gondor that was huge. People wondered
why Gondor hadn't been a main category. Reason: I hadn't brainstormed
it that way. And they wondered why other places were left out. Same
reason. So this year, we decided on having all Places be graduated.
They'll become a main category if they have enough stories (20).
Other subcategories can graduate as well. Some can't. (Ex. Men/Drama
can't graduate into Drama, because there is already a Drama category).

Hope that helps.

--Ainaechoiriel
MEFA Admin and Founder

I think it is fair if we bent the rules a little
for non-fiction. It's nto fair to lump them in
with fiction and it IS going to be hard to get 3
categories for them too. Perhaps NonFiction
should run even if it only gets a couple of
submissions? At least this year as it is only a
new category!

Resha

~To forgive calls upon our love, to forget calls upon our strength~

AIM: Naresha21 MSN: candyman_gypsy@hotmail.com
ICQ: 142117881 Yahoo: fruitcake5m1
Personal LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/nareshaninya/
Writing LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/writingsofresha/

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http://quiz.ravenblack.net/blood.pl?biter=Resha

Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.
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> Yes. It looks like we'll have enough this year
> (if we get all the permissions, etc.), but we
> still have to decide if non-fiction
> nominations require 3 choices to be Complete,
> just like every other story. Or do we allow an
> execption in their case? And if so, what
> about when we don't have enough to be viable?

Perhaps 2??? Nonfiction is a category in itself,
yes? And then ask that a second one is picked in
regards to the main subject matter? If they then
wish to pick a third, then all is good!

Perhaps in post mortem, we should dicuss having a
comments box in the nomination form for next
year. It could come in handy for something like
this. I know a couple of my nominations, I
bumped them up a rating from the author's and
would like to be able to note that somewhere. Or
maybe an "Authors's Rating" and "Nominator's
Rating"... Why do I have so many ideas when I'm
about to go to bed?! Yeesh! :-)

Resha


~To forgive calls upon our love, to forget calls upon our strength~

AIM: Naresha21 MSN: candyman_gypsy@hotmail.com
ICQ: 142117881 Yahoo: fruitcake5m1
Personal LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/nareshaninya/
Writing LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/writingsofresha/

My Website! Slash Me Happy
http://www.websamba.com/SlashMeHappy

http://quiz.ravenblack.net/blood.pl?biter=Resha

Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.
http://au.movies.yahoo.com

Well, I would support making an exception for non-fiction since it is
not simply a rare category of fiction, it's actually a wholly
different and opposed beast from fiction. So it's actually kind of
funny that we have a non-fiction category in a fan*fiction* award, or
so it seems to me. I'd still say there must be at least two authors
for it to be competitive, and it must always be a separate category ad
not compete against *fiction*. That's like making Howard Zinn compete
against Monty Python's "Life of Brian" or "The Meaning of Life".

The other option is simply to scrap that category because it seems
very unlikely ever to have anywhere near twenty entries, and very
likely to have only two some years.

Dwim


--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, Naresha <north_shore_fruitcake@y...>
wrote:

> I think it is fair if we bent the rules a little
> for non-fiction. It's nto fair to lump them in
> with fiction and it IS going to be hard to get 3
> categories for them too. Perhaps NonFiction
> should run even if it only gets a couple of
> submissions? At least this year as it is only a
> new category!
>
> Resha
>
> ~To forgive calls upon our love, to forget calls upon our strength~
>
> AIM: Naresha21 MSN: candyman_gypsy@h...
> ICQ: 142117881 Yahoo: fruitcake5m1
> Personal LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/nareshaninya/
> Writing LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/writingsofresha/
>
> My Website! Slash Me Happy
> http://www.websamba.com/SlashMeHappy
>
> http://quiz.ravenblack.net/blood.pl?biter=Resha
>
> Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.
> http://au.movies.yahoo.com

In case of differences between nominator's story info and author's, always
go with the author. The author knows her/his story best. So, in your
example about rating, I'd replace the rating the nominator put in with the
rating the author put in.

--Ainaechoiriel

MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards

Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Naresha [mailto:north_shore_fruitcake@yahoo.com.au]
> Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 11:06 AM
> To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MEFAwards] Re: Good question about Non-Fiction
> nominations
>
>
> > Yes. It looks like we'll have enough this year (if we get all the
> > permissions, etc.), but we still have to decide if non-fiction
> > nominations require 3 choices to be Complete, just like every other
> > story. Or do we allow an execption in their case? And if so, what
> > about when we don't have enough to be viable?
>
>
> Perhaps 2??? Nonfiction is a category in itself, yes? And
> then ask that a second one is picked in regards to the main
> subject matter? If they then wish to pick a third, then all is good!
>
> Perhaps in post mortem, we should dicuss having a comments
> box in the nomination form for next year. It could come in
> handy for something like this. I know a couple of my
> nominations, I bumped them up a rating from the author's and
> would like to be able to note that somewhere. Or maybe an
> "Authors's Rating" and "Nominator's Rating"... Why do I have
> so many ideas when I'm about to go to bed?! Yeesh! :-)
>
> Resha
>
>
> ~To forgive calls upon our love, to forget calls upon our strength~
>
> AIM: Naresha21 MSN: candyman_gypsy@hotmail.com
> ICQ: 142117881 Yahoo: fruitcake5m1
> Personal LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/nareshaninya/
> Writing LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/writingsofresha/
>
> My Website! Slash Me Happy
> http://www.websamba.com/SlashMeHappy
>
> http://quiz.ravenblack.net/blood.pl?biter=Resha
>
> Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.
> http://au.movies.yahoo.com
>
>
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I don't know about next year, but I doubt it will be a problem this year. The NonFiction category currently has 11 entries and 9 authors, which makes it viable. Hooray!

Thundera (who is ridiculous excited about essays and the dwarf category this year)



-- Naresha <north_shore_fruitcake@yahoo.com.au> wrote:


I think it is fair if we bent the rules a little
for non-fiction. It's nto fair to lump them in
with fiction and it IS going to be hard to get 3
categories for them too. Perhaps NonFiction
should run even if it only gets a couple of
submissions? At least this year as it is only a
new category!

Resha

~To forgive calls upon our love, to forget calls upon our strength~

AIM: Naresha21 MSN: candyman_gypsy@hotmail.com
ICQ: 142117881 Yahoo: fruitcake5m1
Personal LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/nareshaninya/
Writing LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/writingsofresha/

My Website! Slash Me Happy
http://www.websamba.com/SlashMeHappy

http://quiz.ravenblack.net/blood.pl?biter=Resha

Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! Movies.
http://au.movies.yahoo.com




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