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My goodness. This is what I get for daring to sleep for six hours.

Grond, I do hope you haven't left yet. Coriel, I will restore your posting
permissions when I'm done with this post. And I'm guessing this is going to
be another case of my being "wordy".

First, let me say that I missed one post that started this ball rolling, I
think, but I've read all the others. I want to next stae my thoughts on why
I did not include NC-17s.

My brrain is a rambly brain, so bear with me. I personally, do not read
sex. Or slash. Or romance. But I am not the entire reading public and I
am not the Decency Police either. I'm just a person who liked the way one
awards program was going in Star Trek fandom and wanted to bring that to
LOTR fandom. I chose purposely to NOT exclude slash. And I'd be silly to
exclude Romance. But I did draw a line at NC-17. And that even means that
I will not be nominating one of my favorite WIPs: Dark Leaf, by JastaElf
(when, oh when, will we get an update, Jasta dear?)

I also chose not to make this an adult group. That choice was given to me
when I created the group and I had to decide. Myself. No committee, just
little ole me. And I chose NOT adult because I didn't want to exclude a
large number of readers.

Under non-adult rules, we'd probably have a hard time even posting R-rated
stories here, if we posted stories here, which we don't. NC-17 would be out
of the question. As it stands I've had to say several times (not because I
assumed people would abuse it but because I just wanted people to be warned)
that when Voting Seawson comes, all comments must be kept PG-13 or under
even when commenting on R stories. I think it would be a bit more difficult
to do this with NC-17 stories.

I just felt I needed to draw a line. And since I am drawing on
Alt.StarTrek.Creative, I felt it avalid one. There is another newsgroup
specifically for erotica. Alt.startrek.creative.erotic-moderated, and they
have their own awards (The Golden O's) every year. I don't participate in
it, so I can't say how it is run.

I don't' see this as hostile, and I hope, Grond, that you do not take it as
such. I don't think every Orc fic out there would by nature be NC-17. Not
even every sex scene is NC-17. Or torture scene, etc. I may not read
romance, but I have admitted to myself that I like a good torture story.
Dark Leaf is one of those. A very good one. But it is extremely graphic
and thus, I'd call it NC-17.

The discussion on how the awards will be run has ended in all but minor
points. As I said to someone else who put forth a motion for a Poetry
category, this can be campaigned for next year. The categories are set for
this year. If you'd like we can take up a reasoned and rational debate on
NC17 fic eligibility after this awards year in anticipation of next year.
But I'll stand hard on those two adjectives: reasoned and rational. I hate
hostility on lists, too, and have left several because of it.

However, Grond, I really hope you don't leave because of what you felt was
hostility from one member of this group. Especially when I wasn't even
around. It's my group. I'm the founder and main moderator. Sulriel and
Soledad are moderators as well. If *we*, especially *me*, were to hostile,
then I'd go running off screaming and shouting and cursing under my breath,
if I were you. Coriel is a member and has only as much responsibilty for
the group as you do, and as 93 other members do. You can't say "the group"
is hostile based on one person's posting. Unless that person is me.

Coriel, I do think you overstepped your bounds with the "Voice of Decency"
bit. I didn't feel your posts were overly hostile, but they did take on
that tone at that point. I understand your reasonings for not reading
NC17s and not wanting it in your inbox. I'm a Christian and a virgin who
believes sex only belongs in a marriage. But I don't preach here. This
isn't the place for it.

If anyone is to be the Voice of Anything here, that burden falls to me as
the one who created this group and these Awards. If I see something getting
out of line, I will speak up. If anyone sees something getting out of line,
e-mail me privately. We will try our best to work things out without
hostility and with fairness.

However, with that burden comes some power and some decision-making. NC17
was that decision. Just as Xing had that right to exclude them from ff.net,
and you have the right to include them and nothing else on your own web site
(hypothetically), I have the right to not include them in this awards
program. Even next year. Though I will discuss it with you after this
awards season. I have been known to change my mind on occasion.

Perhaps there is a lack of awards programs for NC17 fic. If that is the
case, I encourage you to do what the folks of ascem do and make your own
awards. The Mithrils (not picking on them, they are just the only other
ones I'm familiar with in this fandom) took a while to get started because
they started by committee. This program took only a couple of weeks because
it was started by me. There was no debate over simple vote or
comment-voting. No debate over judges or popular vote, etc. Just me. I
made the decision to do them the way I wanted to and invited others to join
me in the endevour.

You can do the same thing. You'd probably get some people from this list to
also participate in yours. And others not. As I said before, we all choose
what we want to read. We are all free to do that. But I do draw the line
at NC17 stories being nominated and voted on here. You can read them all
you want.

Please, Grond, stay. Please Coriel, stay. Please be tolerant of each other
and check the hostility at the door.

--Ainaechoiriel

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://www.stormpages.com/gabrielle/lotr Land of Myth and Memory
Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ainae, dear. .. I really do think we should have some kind of
moderator award. I would have ... maybe 15 points by now and
Soledad hasn't stirred up anything at all. <pout>

<making notes to self for next year>

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "Ainaechoiriel" <mefaadmin@e...>
wrote:> > My goodness. This is what I get for daring to sleep for
six hours.> . And I'm guessing this is going to> be another case of
my being "wordy".>

The Mithrils are currently (until this weekend)
accepting nominations of NC-17 (as well as
lower-rated) fic. Please feel free to nominate, if you
have not already done so.

Very recently, the My Precious Awards and the Golden
Mushroom Awards also allowed adult material as part of
the contests. If readers are interested in finding
well-known and well-loved bits of adult-rated
material, please wander over to those sites and take a
look around.

There is room in this fandom for everybody, just
sometimes we have to shift around a little.

viv

--- Ainaechoiriel <mefaadmin@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Perhaps there is a lack of awards programs for NC17
> fic.

=====
Spacellama Palace: http://spacellama.net




__________________________________
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Sorry; no offense or hostility to Grond was intended or (purposefully) implied.
I was merely voicing a concern, and that is how we speak in our household.

Coriel

----- Original Message -----
From: Ainaechoiriel
To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 1:04 PM
Subject: [MEFAwards] Whoa! (was: Ratings, NC-17s, and Voices of Decency)



My goodness. This is what I get for daring to sleep for six hours.

Grond, I do hope you haven't left yet. Coriel, I will restore your posting
permissions when I'm done with this post. And I'm guessing this is going to
be another case of my being "wordy".

First, let me say that I missed one post that started this ball rolling, I
think, but I've read all the others. I want to next stae my thoughts on why
I did not include NC-17s.

My brrain is a rambly brain, so bear with me. I personally, do not read
sex. Or slash. Or romance. But I am not the entire reading public and I
am not the Decency Police either. I'm just a person who liked the way one
awards program was going in Star Trek fandom and wanted to bring that to
LOTR fandom. I chose purposely to NOT exclude slash. And I'd be silly to
exclude Romance. But I did draw a line at NC-17. And that even means that
I will not be nominating one of my favorite WIPs: Dark Leaf, by JastaElf
(when, oh when, will we get an update, Jasta dear?)

I also chose not to make this an adult group. That choice was given to me
when I created the group and I had to decide. Myself. No committee, just
little ole me. And I chose NOT adult because I didn't want to exclude a
large number of readers.

Under non-adult rules, we'd probably have a hard time even posting R-rated
stories here, if we posted stories here, which we don't. NC-17 would be out
of the question. As it stands I've had to say several times (not because I
assumed people would abuse it but because I just wanted people to be warned)
that when Voting Seawson comes, all comments must be kept PG-13 or under
even when commenting on R stories. I think it would be a bit more difficult
to do this with NC-17 stories.

I just felt I needed to draw a line. And since I am drawing on
Alt.StarTrek.Creative, I felt it avalid one. There is another newsgroup
specifically for erotica. Alt.startrek.creative.erotic-moderated, and they
have their own awards (The Golden O's) every year. I don't participate in
it, so I can't say how it is run.

I don't' see this as hostile, and I hope, Grond, that you do not take it as
such. I don't think every Orc fic out there would by nature be NC-17. Not
even every sex scene is NC-17. Or torture scene, etc. I may not read
romance, but I have admitted to myself that I like a good torture story.
Dark Leaf is one of those. A very good one. But it is extremely graphic
and thus, I'd call it NC-17.

The discussion on how the awards will be run has ended in all but minor
points. As I said to someone else who put forth a motion for a Poetry
category, this can be campaigned for next year. The categories are set for
this year. If you'd like we can take up a reasoned and rational debate on
NC17 fic eligibility after this awards year in anticipation of next year.
But I'll stand hard on those two adjectives: reasoned and rational. I hate
hostility on lists, too, and have left several because of it.

However, Grond, I really hope you don't leave because of what you felt was
hostility from one member of this group. Especially when I wasn't even
around. It's my group. I'm the founder and main moderator. Sulriel and
Soledad are moderators as well. If *we*, especially *me*, were to hostile,
then I'd go running off screaming and shouting and cursing under my breath,
if I were you. Coriel is a member and has only as much responsibilty for
the group as you do, and as 93 other members do. You can't say "the group"
is hostile based on one person's posting. Unless that person is me.

Coriel, I do think you overstepped your bounds with the "Voice of Decency"
bit. I didn't feel your posts were overly hostile, but they did take on
that tone at that point. I understand your reasonings for not reading
NC17s and not wanting it in your inbox. I'm a Christian and a virgin who
believes sex only belongs in a marriage. But I don't preach here. This
isn't the place for it.

If anyone is to be the Voice of Anything here, that burden falls to me as
the one who created this group and these Awards. If I see something getting
out of line, I will speak up. If anyone sees something getting out of line,
e-mail me privately. We will try our best to work things out without
hostility and with fairness.

However, with that burden comes some power and some decision-making. NC17
was that decision. Just as Xing had that right to exclude them from ff.net,
and you have the right to include them and nothing else on your own web site
(hypothetically), I have the right to not include them in this awards
program. Even next year. Though I will discuss it with you after this
awards season. I have been known to change my mind on occasion.

Perhaps there is a lack of awards programs for NC17 fic. If that is the
case, I encourage you to do what the folks of ascem do and make your own
awards. The Mithrils (not picking on them, they are just the only other
ones I'm familiar with in this fandom) took a while to get started because
they started by committee. This program took only a couple of weeks because
it was started by me. There was no debate over simple vote or
comment-voting. No debate over judges or popular vote, etc. Just me. I
made the decision to do them the way I wanted to and invited others to join
me in the endevour.

You can do the same thing. You'd probably get some people from this list to
also participate in yours. And others not. As I said before, we all choose
what we want to read. We are all free to do that. But I do draw the line
at NC17 stories being nominated and voted on here. You can read them all
you want.

Please, Grond, stay. Please Coriel, stay. Please be tolerant of each other
and check the hostility at the door.

--Ainaechoiriel

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://www.stormpages.com/gabrielle/lotr Land of Myth and Memory
Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "sulriel" <Sulriel@h...> wrote:

> Ainae, dear. .. I really do think we should have some kind of
> moderator award. I would have ... maybe 15 points by now and
> Soledad hasn't stirred up anything at all. <pout>

Huh? Is that a good thing or a bad thing? <g>

Soledad

> -----Original Message-----
> From: coriel_elfwyn [mailto:coriel_elfwyn@outdrs.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 1:26 PM
> To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MEFAwards] Whoa! (was: Ratings, NC-17s, and
> Voices of Decency)
>
> Sorry; no offense or hostility to Grond was intended or
> (purposefully) implied.
> I was merely voicing a concern, and that is how we speak in
> our household.

Speaking for the group, I accept your apology. Thank you and I'm glad
you're sticking around.

--Ainaechoiriel

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://www.stormpages.com/gabrielle/lotr Land of Myth and Memory
Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com

There are also archives which feature adult rated material. I regularly
post on Open Scrolls, which showcases het material and welcomes NC-17.



Ariel

www.bagendwest.net



-----Original Message-----
From: Viv [mailto:spacellamaprincess@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 1:31 PM
To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [MEFAwards] Whoa! (was: Ratings, NC-17s, and Voices of
Decency)



The Mithrils are currently (until this weekend)
accepting nominations of NC-17 (as well as
lower-rated) fic. Please feel free to nominate, if you
have not already done so.

Very recently, the My Precious Awards and the Golden
Mushroom Awards also allowed adult material as part of
the contests. If readers are interested in finding
well-known and well-loved bits of adult-rated
material, please wander over to those sites and take a
look around.

There is room in this fandom for everybody, just
sometimes we have to shift around a little.

viv

--- Ainaechoiriel <mefaadmin@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Perhaps there is a lack of awards programs for NC17
> fic.

=====
Spacellama Palace: http://spacellama.net




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover



_____

Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]