Yahoo Forum Archive

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "Ainaechoiriel" <mefaadmin@e...> wrote:
> Check Ballots for Main Category Races/Places: Villains
>
> Sand Circle, The (49): A L Milton
> G, Reason for Rating: N/A
> Romance Partners: N/A
> A day in the life of Anguo, an oliphaunt trainer. Short vignette in
which
> legends are retold, baths are taken, and feet are scraped.
>
> For Love of Creation (92): Andreth
> PG, Reason for Rating: adult themes
> Romance Partners: Sauron/OFC
> As he stands on the rebuilt tower of Barad-dûr while his armies
prepare to
> leave for Eregion, Annatar/Sauron contemplates the desire for
creation and
> the consequences for those who suffer from it: Fëanor, Morgoth and
Ilúvatar,
> but particularly himself.
>
> Servant of Elbereth (796): Beethoven's 7th
> G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> Romance Partners: n/a
> In Mordor, it is not only Gollum who follows Frodo and Sam ...
>
> Giving Gifts (241): Dwimordene
> G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> Romance Partners: n/a
> A boy of Harad learns a lesson from his father on the proper way to
give the
> most precious of gifts.
>
> Sweet Meat (1073): Ijemanja
> PG-13, Reason for Rating: horrific imagery, adult themes
> Romance Partners: n/a
> "Shelob was gone; and whether she lay long in her lair, nursing her
malice
> and her misery, and in slow years of darkness healed herself from
within,
> rebuilding her clustered eyes, until with hunger like death she spun
once
> more her dreadful snares in the glens of the Mountains of Shadow,
this tale
> does not tell." (LOTR, book IV, chapter X) Here, then, is the untold
tale of
> Shelob after her encounter with Sam. Her hunger is great, but she is
good at
> waiting, and there are many footfalls along her dark tunnels these
days...
>
> Red Fire, Black Blood (1121): just_sphinx
> PG, Reason for Rating: adult themes
> Romance Partners: n/a
> Morgoth reflects in the Void, ever remembering the one who escaped.
> Featuring Morgoth, Maedhros.
>
> Bitter as Willow (801): Nickey
> PG-13, Reason for Rating: For some frightening themes
> Romance Partners: N/A
> Old Man Willow has vengeance within his grasp...
>
> Cornfield, The (530): Tanaqui
> G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> Romance Partners: n/a
> Just why is there a cornfield in the middle of an otherwise very
> English-looking Shire? And how does Frodo get so far ahead of Sam
that Sam
> "loses" him?
>
>
>
> SubCategory: Races/Places: Villains: Drabble
>
> The Men of the South (233): Dwimordene
> PG, Reason for Rating: Generally dark atmosphere
> Romance Partners: none
> The villainy of war is manifold: the final stages of the battle of
Pelennor
> Field.
>
> Alas, Poor Ufthak! (200): Elena Tiriel
> G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> Romance Partners: n/a
> "'D'you remember old Ufthak? We lost him for days. Then we found him
in a
> corner; hanging up he was, but he was wide awake and glaring. How we
> laughed! She'd forgotten him, maybe, but we didn't touch him -- no good
> interfering with [Shelob]' ..." (The Two Towers, "The Choices of Master
> Samwise")
>
> Triumph Incarnate (198): Elena Tiriel
> G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> Romance Partners: n/a
> "And Sauron, sitting in his black seat in the midst of the Temple, had
> laughed when he heard the trumpets of Ar-Pharazôn sounding for
battle; and
> again he had laughed when he heard the thunder of the storm; and a third
> time, even as he laughed at his own thought, thinking what he would
do now
> in the world, being rid of the Edain for ever, he was taken in the
midst of
> his mirth, and his seat and his temple fell into the abyss. But
Sauron was
> not of mortal flesh, and though he was robbed now of that shape in
which he
> had wrought so great an evil ... yet his spirit arose out of the
deep ...
> and came back to Middle-earth...." (The Silmarillion, "Akallabêth")
>
> Orc's Best Friend (384): Forodwaith
> G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> Romance Partners: n/a
> A moment between a warg-rider and his steed.
>
> Roast Mutton (1362): Marta
> G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> Romance Partners: n/a
> Bilbo tries to burgle the trolls.
>
> Nine Riders (791): Rabidsamfan
> G, Reason for Rating: N/A
> Romance Partners: N/A
> A set of nine drabbles, one for each of the Black Riders, exploring
their
> personalities, such as they were...
>
> Long March, The (542): Tanaqui
> G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> Romance Partners: n/a
> The thoughts of one of the Haradrim seen by Sam in Ithilien, just
before the
> Rangers attack.
>
>
>
> SubCategory: Races/Places: Villains: Nazgul
>
> Shadowsong (714): Ellisande
> PG, Reason for Rating: adult themes
> Romance Partners: n/a
> "But the hearts of men are easily corrupted..." Why did Sauron's
corruption
> work so well with men and how much of the man is left after ages in the
> shadow? An attempt to look into the mind of the Lord of the Nazgul.
>
> This Too Shall Pass (742): Isabeau of Greenlea
> G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> Romance Partners: n/a
> An alternate ending to the scene at Osgiliath with Frodo and the Nazgul.
>
> Cursed Queen of Angmar (450): khazar_khum
> R, Reason for Rating: violence, torture, erotic content, mature themes
> Romance Partners: Witch-king/OFC (Ariashal)
> Ariashal of Rhudaur is the unwitting lynchpin of her father's
machinations
> with the Witch-king of Angmar. And she's cursed, too.
>
> Gift of Rule (470): Lyllyn
> PG, Reason for Rating: adult themes
> Romance Partners: n/a
> The thoughts of the Witch-king when the gift was given... and accepted.
>
> Once (485): Meril
> G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> Romance Partners: n/a
> The Lord of the Nazgûl reflects on his mortal life.
>
>
>
> SubCategory: Races/Places: Villains: Orcs
>
> Enmities (561): AmandaK
> PG, Reason for Rating: adult themes
> Romance Partners: n/a
> While men will fight for honor, renown and riches, women have other
reasons
> to fight. A retrospective look at the War of the Ring from an unusual
> viewpoint.
>
> Strange Bedfellows (250): Dwimordene
> PG, Reason for Rating: adult themes
> Romance Partners: n/a
> An incident between the different armies of Orcs, after the attack
on Parth
> Galen.
>
> The Last Stand (76): Soledad
> PG-13, Reason for Rating: Violence and Sexual Encounters
> Romance Partners: N/A
> That famous last fight between Éomer and Uglúk, seen from Uglúk's
> perspective. A feeble attempt to create a glimpse of the culture of the
> Uruk-hai... if there is such thing. I leave the judgement to you, oh
most
> gracious readers.
>
> One Dark Day in Lugbúrz (521): Starlight
> G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> Romance Partners: n/a
> The orcs of Lugburz set Gollum free.
>
> Full Circle (348): Werecat
> PG, Reason for Rating: disturbing images
> Romance Partners: n/a
> "Beasts, they've called us". So end the days of Kolgrun, last
warrior of the
> race of orcs.
>
> Wish upon a star (194): Werecat
> PG-13, Reason for Rating: Rating and warning for violence and disturbing
> subjects, although nothing graphic
> Romance Partners: interspecies (orc/OFC)
> Girl falls to Middle Earth, hoping to meet the object of her desire:
> Legolas. However, things turn quite differently from what she
expected. AU,
> of course. Parody/Black humour.
>
>
>
> SubCategory: Races/Places: Villains: Poetry
>
> Melkor (440): Joan Milligan
> PG, Reason for Rating: adult themes
> Romance Partners: n/a
> Melkor during the Great Music.
>
> Sauron (442): Joan Milligan
> G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> Romance Partners: n/a
> Sauron during the Akallabêth.
>
> Death Doth Come (936): Marta
> PG-13, Reason for Rating: horrific elements
> Romance Partners: n/a
> An extending and slight reworking of the Barrow-wight's song.
>
> Prince of Pride (577): Marta
> G, Reason for Rating: N/A
> Romance Partners: N/A
> "Out of the deeps of Ea she came to the aid of Manwe; for Melkor she
knew
> from before the making of the Music and rejected him, and he hated
her, and
> feared her more than all others whom Eru made." ("Of the Valar",
Valaquenta,
> Silmarillion) A sonnet, from Manwë's POV.
>
> Under the Lonely Mountain Cold (965): Marta
> G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> Romance Partners: n/a
> A dwarf drinking song about the death of Smaug.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Leaward
> Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 4:23 PM
> To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [MEFAwards] Re: Races/Places: Villains, Check Ballot #3
>
> Servant of Elbereth (796) is about an orc ... It doesn't list
> it in the sub-categories, but if you want to move it, it
> could be ... either way the category works, but I thought I
> would point it out.
>
> --- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "Ainaechoiriel"
> <mefaadmin@e...> wrote:
> > Check Ballots for Main Category Races/Places: Villains
> >
> > Sand Circle, The (49): A L Milton
> > G, Reason for Rating: N/A
> > Romance Partners: N/A
> > A day in the life of Anguo, an oliphaunt trainer. Short vignette in
> which
> > legends are retold, baths are taken, and feet are scraped.
> >
> > For Love of Creation (92): Andreth
> > PG, Reason for Rating: adult themes
> > Romance Partners: Sauron/OFC
> > As he stands on the rebuilt tower of Barad-dûr while his armies
> prepare to
> > leave for Eregion, Annatar/Sauron contemplates the desire for
> creation and
> > the consequences for those who suffer from it: Fëanor, Morgoth and
> Ilúvatar,
> > but particularly himself.
> >
> > Servant of Elbereth (796): Beethoven's 7th G, Reason for
> Rating: n/a
> > Romance Partners: n/a In Mordor, it is not only Gollum who follows
> > Frodo and Sam ...
> >
> > Giving Gifts (241): Dwimordene
> > G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> > Romance Partners: n/a
> > A boy of Harad learns a lesson from his father on the proper way to
> give the
> > most precious of gifts.
> >
> > Sweet Meat (1073): Ijemanja
> > PG-13, Reason for Rating: horrific imagery, adult themes Romance
> > Partners: n/a "Shelob was gone; and whether she lay long in
> her lair,
> > nursing her
> malice
> > and her misery, and in slow years of darkness healed herself from
> within,
> > rebuilding her clustered eyes, until with hunger like death she spun
> once
> > more her dreadful snares in the glens of the Mountains of Shadow,
> this tale
> > does not tell." (LOTR, book IV, chapter X) Here, then, is the untold
> tale of
> > Shelob after her encounter with Sam. Her hunger is great, but she is
> good at
> > waiting, and there are many footfalls along her dark tunnels these
> days...
> >
> > Red Fire, Black Blood (1121): just_sphinx PG, Reason for
> Rating: adult
> > themes Romance Partners: n/a Morgoth reflects in the Void, ever
> > remembering the one who escaped.
> > Featuring Morgoth, Maedhros.
> >
> > Bitter as Willow (801): Nickey
> > PG-13, Reason for Rating: For some frightening themes Romance
> > Partners: N/A Old Man Willow has vengeance within his grasp...
> >
> > Cornfield, The (530): Tanaqui
> > G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> > Romance Partners: n/a
> > Just why is there a cornfield in the middle of an otherwise very
> > English-looking Shire? And how does Frodo get so far ahead of Sam
> that Sam
> > "loses" him?
> >
> >
> >
> > SubCategory: Races/Places: Villains: Drabble
> >
> > The Men of the South (233): Dwimordene PG, Reason for Rating:
> > Generally dark atmosphere Romance Partners: none The
> villainy of war
> > is manifold: the final stages of the battle of
> Pelennor
> > Field.
> >
> > Alas, Poor Ufthak! (200): Elena Tiriel G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> > Romance Partners: n/a "'D'you remember old Ufthak? We lost him for
> > days. Then we found him
> in a
> > corner; hanging up he was, but he was wide awake and
> glaring. How we
> > laughed! She'd forgotten him, maybe, but we didn't touch him -- no
> > good interfering with [Shelob]' ..." (The Two Towers, "The
> Choices of
> > Master
> > Samwise")
> >
> > Triumph Incarnate (198): Elena Tiriel
> > G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> > Romance Partners: n/a
> > "And Sauron, sitting in his black seat in the midst of the
> Temple, had
> > laughed when he heard the trumpets of Ar-Pharazôn sounding for
> battle; and
> > again he had laughed when he heard the thunder of the storm; and a
> > third time, even as he laughed at his own thought, thinking what he
> > would
> do now
> > in the world, being rid of the Edain for ever, he was taken in the
> midst of
> > his mirth, and his seat and his temple fell into the abyss. But
> Sauron was
> > not of mortal flesh, and though he was robbed now of that shape in
> which he
> > had wrought so great an evil ... yet his spirit arose out of the
> deep ...
> > and came back to Middle-earth...." (The Silmarillion, "Akallabêth")
> >
> > Orc's Best Friend (384): Forodwaith
> > G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> > Romance Partners: n/a
> > A moment between a warg-rider and his steed.
> >
> > Roast Mutton (1362): Marta
> > G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> > Romance Partners: n/a
> > Bilbo tries to burgle the trolls.
> >
> > Nine Riders (791): Rabidsamfan
> > G, Reason for Rating: N/A
> > Romance Partners: N/A
> > A set of nine drabbles, one for each of the Black Riders, exploring
> their
> > personalities, such as they were...
> >
> > Long March, The (542): Tanaqui
> > G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> > Romance Partners: n/a
> > The thoughts of one of the Haradrim seen by Sam in Ithilien, just
> before the
> > Rangers attack.
> >
> >
> >
> > SubCategory: Races/Places: Villains: Nazgul
> >
> > Shadowsong (714): Ellisande
> > PG, Reason for Rating: adult themes
> > Romance Partners: n/a
> > "But the hearts of men are easily corrupted..." Why did Sauron's
> corruption
> > work so well with men and how much of the man is left after ages in
> > the shadow? An attempt to look into the mind of the Lord of
> the Nazgul.
> >
> > This Too Shall Pass (742): Isabeau of Greenlea G, Reason
> for Rating:
> > n/a Romance Partners: n/a An alternate ending to the scene at
> > Osgiliath with Frodo and the Nazgul.
> >
> > Cursed Queen of Angmar (450): khazar_khum R, Reason for Rating:
> > violence, torture, erotic content, mature themes Romance Partners:
> > Witch-king/OFC (Ariashal) Ariashal of Rhudaur is the unwitting
> > lynchpin of her father's
> machinations
> > with the Witch-king of Angmar. And she's cursed, too.
> >
> > Gift of Rule (470): Lyllyn
> > PG, Reason for Rating: adult themes
> > Romance Partners: n/a
> > The thoughts of the Witch-king when the gift was given...
> and accepted.
> >
> > Once (485): Meril
> > G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> > Romance Partners: n/a
> > The Lord of the Nazgûl reflects on his mortal life.
> >
> >
> >
> > SubCategory: Races/Places: Villains: Orcs
> >
> > Enmities (561): AmandaK
> > PG, Reason for Rating: adult themes
> > Romance Partners: n/a
> > While men will fight for honor, renown and riches, women have other
> reasons
> > to fight. A retrospective look at the War of the Ring from
> an unusual
> > viewpoint.
> >
> > Strange Bedfellows (250): Dwimordene
> > PG, Reason for Rating: adult themes
> > Romance Partners: n/a
> > An incident between the different armies of Orcs, after the attack
> on Parth
> > Galen.
> >
> > The Last Stand (76): Soledad
> > PG-13, Reason for Rating: Violence and Sexual Encounters Romance
> > Partners: N/A That famous last fight between Éomer and Uglúk, seen
> > from Uglúk's perspective. A feeble attempt to create a
> glimpse of the
> > culture of the Uruk-hai... if there is such thing. I leave the
> > judgement to you, oh
> most
> > gracious readers.
> >
> > One Dark Day in Lugbúrz (521): Starlight G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> > Romance Partners: n/a The orcs of Lugburz set Gollum free.
> >
> > Full Circle (348): Werecat
> > PG, Reason for Rating: disturbing images Romance Partners: n/a
> > "Beasts, they've called us". So end the days of Kolgrun, last
> warrior of the
> > race of orcs.
> >
> > Wish upon a star (194): Werecat
> > PG-13, Reason for Rating: Rating and warning for violence and
> > disturbing subjects, although nothing graphic Romance Partners:
> > interspecies (orc/OFC) Girl falls to Middle Earth, hoping
> to meet the
> > object of her desire:
> > Legolas. However, things turn quite differently from what she
> expected. AU,
> > of course. Parody/Black humour.
> >
> >
> >
> > SubCategory: Races/Places: Villains: Poetry
> >
> > Melkor (440): Joan Milligan
> > PG, Reason for Rating: adult themes
> > Romance Partners: n/a
> > Melkor during the Great Music.
> >
> > Sauron (442): Joan Milligan
> > G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> > Romance Partners: n/a
> > Sauron during the Akallabêth.
> >
> > Death Doth Come (936): Marta
> > PG-13, Reason for Rating: horrific elements Romance
> Partners: n/a An
> > extending and slight reworking of the Barrow-wight's song.
> >
> > Prince of Pride (577): Marta
> > G, Reason for Rating: N/A
> > Romance Partners: N/A
> > "Out of the deeps of Ea she came to the aid of Manwe; for Melkor she
> knew
> > from before the making of the Music and rejected him, and he hated
> her, and
> > feared her more than all others whom Eru made." ("Of the Valar",
> Valaquenta,
> > Silmarillion) A sonnet, from Manwë's POV.
> >
> > Under the Lonely Mountain Cold (965): Marta G, Reason for
> Rating: n/a
> > Romance Partners: n/a A dwarf drinking song about the death
> of Smaug.
>
>
>
>
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--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "Ainaechoiriel" <mefaadmin@e...> wrote:
> Thought about moving it, but then thought about the Author's approval.
> Didn't specify Orc as a possible subcategory, summary doesn't
specify....so
> it will stay.
>
>
> --Ainaechoiriel
> MEFA Admin and Founder
>
> "This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond
said, "for
> it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.
>
> http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards
>
> Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Leaward
> > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 4:23 PM
> > To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [MEFAwards] Re: Races/Places: Villains, Check Ballot #3
> >
> > Servant of Elbereth (796) is about an orc ... It doesn't list
> > it in the sub-categories, but if you want to move it, it
> > could be ... either way the category works, but I thought I
> > would point it out.
> >
> > --- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "Ainaechoiriel"
> > <mefaadmin@e...> wrote:
> > > Check Ballots for Main Category Races/Places: Villains
> > >
> > > Sand Circle, The (49): A L Milton
> > > G, Reason for Rating: N/A
> > > Romance Partners: N/A
> > > A day in the life of Anguo, an oliphaunt trainer. Short vignette in
> > which
> > > legends are retold, baths are taken, and feet are scraped.
> > >
> > > For Love of Creation (92): Andreth
> > > PG, Reason for Rating: adult themes
> > > Romance Partners: Sauron/OFC
> > > As he stands on the rebuilt tower of Barad-dûr while his armies
> > prepare to
> > > leave for Eregion, Annatar/Sauron contemplates the desire for
> > creation and
> > > the consequences for those who suffer from it: Fëanor, Morgoth and
> > Ilúvatar,
> > > but particularly himself.
> > >
> > > Servant of Elbereth (796): Beethoven's 7th G, Reason for
> > Rating: n/a
> > > Romance Partners: n/a In Mordor, it is not only Gollum who follows
> > > Frodo and Sam ...
> > >
> > > Giving Gifts (241): Dwimordene
> > > G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> > > Romance Partners: n/a
> > > A boy of Harad learns a lesson from his father on the proper way to
> > give the
> > > most precious of gifts.
> > >
> > > Sweet Meat (1073): Ijemanja
> > > PG-13, Reason for Rating: horrific imagery, adult themes Romance
> > > Partners: n/a "Shelob was gone; and whether she lay long in
> > her lair,
> > > nursing her
> > malice
> > > and her misery, and in slow years of darkness healed herself from
> > within,
> > > rebuilding her clustered eyes, until with hunger like death she spun
> > once
> > > more her dreadful snares in the glens of the Mountains of Shadow,
> > this tale
> > > does not tell." (LOTR, book IV, chapter X) Here, then, is the untold
> > tale of
> > > Shelob after her encounter with Sam. Her hunger is great, but she is
> > good at
> > > waiting, and there are many footfalls along her dark tunnels these
> > days...
> > >
> > > Red Fire, Black Blood (1121): just_sphinx PG, Reason for
> > Rating: adult
> > > themes Romance Partners: n/a Morgoth reflects in the Void, ever
> > > remembering the one who escaped.
> > > Featuring Morgoth, Maedhros.
> > >
> > > Bitter as Willow (801): Nickey
> > > PG-13, Reason for Rating: For some frightening themes Romance
> > > Partners: N/A Old Man Willow has vengeance within his grasp...
> > >
> > > Cornfield, The (530): Tanaqui
> > > G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> > > Romance Partners: n/a
> > > Just why is there a cornfield in the middle of an otherwise very
> > > English-looking Shire? And how does Frodo get so far ahead of Sam
> > that Sam
> > > "loses" him?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > SubCategory: Races/Places: Villains: Drabble
> > >
> > > The Men of the South (233): Dwimordene PG, Reason for Rating:
> > > Generally dark atmosphere Romance Partners: none The
> > villainy of war
> > > is manifold: the final stages of the battle of
> > Pelennor
> > > Field.
> > >
> > > Alas, Poor Ufthak! (200): Elena Tiriel G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> > > Romance Partners: n/a "'D'you remember old Ufthak? We lost him for
> > > days. Then we found him
> > in a
> > > corner; hanging up he was, but he was wide awake and
> > glaring. How we
> > > laughed! She'd forgotten him, maybe, but we didn't touch him -- no
> > > good interfering with [Shelob]' ..." (The Two Towers, "The
> > Choices of
> > > Master
> > > Samwise")
> > >
> > > Triumph Incarnate (198): Elena Tiriel
> > > G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> > > Romance Partners: n/a
> > > "And Sauron, sitting in his black seat in the midst of the
> > Temple, had
> > > laughed when he heard the trumpets of Ar-Pharazôn sounding for
> > battle; and
> > > again he had laughed when he heard the thunder of the storm; and a
> > > third time, even as he laughed at his own thought, thinking what he
> > > would
> > do now
> > > in the world, being rid of the Edain for ever, he was taken in the
> > midst of
> > > his mirth, and his seat and his temple fell into the abyss. But
> > Sauron was
> > > not of mortal flesh, and though he was robbed now of that shape in
> > which he
> > > had wrought so great an evil ... yet his spirit arose out of the
> > deep ...
> > > and came back to Middle-earth...." (The Silmarillion, "Akallabêth")
> > >
> > > Orc's Best Friend (384): Forodwaith
> > > G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> > > Romance Partners: n/a
> > > A moment between a warg-rider and his steed.
> > >
> > > Roast Mutton (1362): Marta
> > > G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> > > Romance Partners: n/a
> > > Bilbo tries to burgle the trolls.
> > >
> > > Nine Riders (791): Rabidsamfan
> > > G, Reason for Rating: N/A
> > > Romance Partners: N/A
> > > A set of nine drabbles, one for each of the Black Riders, exploring
> > their
> > > personalities, such as they were...
> > >
> > > Long March, The (542): Tanaqui
> > > G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> > > Romance Partners: n/a
> > > The thoughts of one of the Haradrim seen by Sam in Ithilien, just
> > before the
> > > Rangers attack.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > SubCategory: Races/Places: Villains: Nazgul
> > >
> > > Shadowsong (714): Ellisande
> > > PG, Reason for Rating: adult themes
> > > Romance Partners: n/a
> > > "But the hearts of men are easily corrupted..." Why did Sauron's
> > corruption
> > > work so well with men and how much of the man is left after ages in
> > > the shadow? An attempt to look into the mind of the Lord of
> > the Nazgul.
> > >
> > > This Too Shall Pass (742): Isabeau of Greenlea G, Reason
> > for Rating:
> > > n/a Romance Partners: n/a An alternate ending to the scene at
> > > Osgiliath with Frodo and the Nazgul.
> > >
> > > Cursed Queen of Angmar (450): khazar_khum R, Reason for Rating:
> > > violence, torture, erotic content, mature themes Romance Partners:
> > > Witch-king/OFC (Ariashal) Ariashal of Rhudaur is the unwitting
> > > lynchpin of her father's
> > machinations
> > > with the Witch-king of Angmar. And she's cursed, too.
> > >
> > > Gift of Rule (470): Lyllyn
> > > PG, Reason for Rating: adult themes
> > > Romance Partners: n/a
> > > The thoughts of the Witch-king when the gift was given...
> > and accepted.
> > >
> > > Once (485): Meril
> > > G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> > > Romance Partners: n/a
> > > The Lord of the Nazgûl reflects on his mortal life.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > SubCategory: Races/Places: Villains: Orcs
> > >
> > > Enmities (561): AmandaK
> > > PG, Reason for Rating: adult themes
> > > Romance Partners: n/a
> > > While men will fight for honor, renown and riches, women have other
> > reasons
> > > to fight. A retrospective look at the War of the Ring from
> > an unusual
> > > viewpoint.
> > >
> > > Strange Bedfellows (250): Dwimordene
> > > PG, Reason for Rating: adult themes
> > > Romance Partners: n/a
> > > An incident between the different armies of Orcs, after the attack
> > on Parth
> > > Galen.
> > >
> > > The Last Stand (76): Soledad
> > > PG-13, Reason for Rating: Violence and Sexual Encounters Romance
> > > Partners: N/A That famous last fight between Éomer and Uglúk, seen
> > > from Uglúk's perspective. A feeble attempt to create a
> > glimpse of the
> > > culture of the Uruk-hai... if there is such thing. I leave the
> > > judgement to you, oh
> > most
> > > gracious readers.
> > >
> > > One Dark Day in Lugbúrz (521): Starlight G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> > > Romance Partners: n/a The orcs of Lugburz set Gollum free.
> > >
> > > Full Circle (348): Werecat
> > > PG, Reason for Rating: disturbing images Romance Partners: n/a
> > > "Beasts, they've called us". So end the days of Kolgrun, last
> > warrior of the
> > > race of orcs.
> > >
> > > Wish upon a star (194): Werecat
> > > PG-13, Reason for Rating: Rating and warning for violence and
> > > disturbing subjects, although nothing graphic Romance Partners:
> > > interspecies (orc/OFC) Girl falls to Middle Earth, hoping
> > to meet the
> > > object of her desire:
> > > Legolas. However, things turn quite differently from what she
> > expected. AU,
> > > of course. Parody/Black humour.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > SubCategory: Races/Places: Villains: Poetry
> > >
> > > Melkor (440): Joan Milligan
> > > PG, Reason for Rating: adult themes
> > > Romance Partners: n/a
> > > Melkor during the Great Music.
> > >
> > > Sauron (442): Joan Milligan
> > > G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> > > Romance Partners: n/a
> > > Sauron during the Akallabêth.
> > >
> > > Death Doth Come (936): Marta
> > > PG-13, Reason for Rating: horrific elements Romance
> > Partners: n/a An
> > > extending and slight reworking of the Barrow-wight's song.
> > >
> > > Prince of Pride (577): Marta
> > > G, Reason for Rating: N/A
> > > Romance Partners: N/A
> > > "Out of the deeps of Ea she came to the aid of Manwe; for Melkor she
> > knew
> > > from before the making of the Music and rejected him, and he hated
> > her, and
> > > feared her more than all others whom Eru made." ("Of the Valar",
> > Valaquenta,
> > > Silmarillion) A sonnet, from Manwë's POV.
> > >
> > > Under the Lonely Mountain Cold (965): Marta G, Reason for
> > Rating: n/a
> > > Romance Partners: n/a A dwarf drinking song about the death
> > of Smaug.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do
> > not own computers.
> > At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide!
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/S.QlOD/3MnJAA/Zx0JAA/wx3olB/TM
> > --------------------------------------------------------------
> > ------~->
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

On 6/10/05, Leaward <leaward_l@yahoo.com> wrote:
> That's fine, I didn't say it had to be moved, I just wasn't sure if
> you did want all Orc stories together or not. It's fine where it is.
>
> From the very start the whole 'categorizing' idea has been confusing
> to me, and I'm really glad I didn't volunteer to be a categorizer.
> I've watched what you guys have gone through to do this and know the
> stress you're under. But for the post-mortem, perhaps we could
> discuss that a better description could be added to the author
> nomination letter or rules or whatever about how important the
> sub-category is. To me, since the sub-category section came beneath
> the main category sections, I thought that came AFTER the first three
> choices and so it was more of a throw-away item only to be used if the
> first three weren't viable. And there were no guidelines as to what
> type of sub-categories should be suggested -- for instance, though I
> could guess Mirkwood or Lothlorien or Rohan might be sub-categories, I
> would never have guessed to have put 'Grey Company' in as a
> sub-category, yet one has been created. And though I personally have
> two Grey Company stories, only one got put in the Grey Company
> category. They're fine with me where they are but a lot of the
> category moves looks rather ... arbitrary and inconsistent. I'm not
> criticizing, I'm just saying I find the whole process confusing. (And
> as an author liaison, I got to see a lot of the behind-the-scenes
> stuff that has been going on.)
>
> (I still don't understand how novels of 50,000+ words have to compete
> with short 1,000 word stories ... it wouldn't happen that way in a
> regular competition ... Why do we have to say the story length anyway
> since other than Drabbles that category seems to have been ignored?)
>
> Lea
>
>
> --- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "Ainaechoiriel" <mefaadmin@e...> wrote:
> > Thought about moving it, but then thought about the Author's approval.
> > Didn't specify Orc as a possible subcategory, summary doesn't
> specify....so
> > it will stay.
> >
> >
> > --Ainaechoiriel
> > MEFA Admin and Founder
> >
> > "This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond
> said, "for
> > it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.
> >
> > http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards
> >
> > Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> > > [mailto:MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Leaward
> > > Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2005 4:23 PM
> > > To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [MEFAwards] Re: Races/Places: Villains, Check Ballot #3
> > >
> > > Servant of Elbereth (796) is about an orc ... It doesn't list
> > > it in the sub-categories, but if you want to move it, it
> > > could be ... either way the category works, but I thought I
> > > would point it out.
> > >
> > > --- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "Ainaechoiriel"
> > > <mefaadmin@e...> wrote:
> > > > Check Ballots for Main Category Races/Places: Villains
> > > >
> > > > Sand Circle, The (49): A L Milton
> > > > G, Reason for Rating: N/A
> > > > Romance Partners: N/A
> > > > A day in the life of Anguo, an oliphaunt trainer. Short vignette in
> > > which
> > > > legends are retold, baths are taken, and feet are scraped.
> > > >
> > > > For Love of Creation (92): Andreth
> > > > PG, Reason for Rating: adult themes
> > > > Romance Partners: Sauron/OFC
> > > > As he stands on the rebuilt tower of Barad-dûr while his armies
> > > prepare to
> > > > leave for Eregion, Annatar/Sauron contemplates the desire for
> > > creation and
> > > > the consequences for those who suffer from it: Fëanor, Morgoth and
> > > Ilúvatar,
> > > > but particularly himself.
> > > >
> > > > Servant of Elbereth (796): Beethoven's 7th G, Reason for
> > > Rating: n/a
> > > > Romance Partners: n/a In Mordor, it is not only Gollum who follows
> > > > Frodo and Sam ...
> > > >
> > > > Giving Gifts (241): Dwimordene
> > > > G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> > > > Romance Partners: n/a
> > > > A boy of Harad learns a lesson from his father on the proper way to
> > > give the
> > > > most precious of gifts.
> > > >
> > > > Sweet Meat (1073): Ijemanja
> > > > PG-13, Reason for Rating: horrific imagery, adult themes Romance
> > > > Partners: n/a "Shelob was gone; and whether she lay long in
> > > her lair,
> > > > nursing her
> > > malice
> > > > and her misery, and in slow years of darkness healed herself from
> > > within,
> > > > rebuilding her clustered eyes, until with hunger like death she spun
> > > once
> > > > more her dreadful snares in the glens of the Mountains of Shadow,
> > > this tale
> > > > does not tell." (LOTR, book IV, chapter X) Here, then, is the untold
> > > tale of
> > > > Shelob after her encounter with Sam. Her hunger is great, but she is
> > > good at
> > > > waiting, and there are many footfalls along her dark tunnels these
> > > days...
> > > >
> > > > Red Fire, Black Blood (1121): just_sphinx PG, Reason for
> > > Rating: adult
> > > > themes Romance Partners: n/a Morgoth reflects in the Void, ever
> > > > remembering the one who escaped.
> > > > Featuring Morgoth, Maedhros.
> > > >
> > > > Bitter as Willow (801): Nickey
> > > > PG-13, Reason for Rating: For some frightening themes Romance
> > > > Partners: N/A Old Man Willow has vengeance within his grasp...
> > > >
> > > > Cornfield, The (530): Tanaqui
> > > > G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> > > > Romance Partners: n/a
> > > > Just why is there a cornfield in the middle of an otherwise very
> > > > English-looking Shire? And how does Frodo get so far ahead of Sam
> > > that Sam
> > > > "loses" him?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > SubCategory: Races/Places: Villains: Drabble
> > > >
> > > > The Men of the South (233): Dwimordene PG, Reason for Rating:
> > > > Generally dark atmosphere Romance Partners: none The
> > > villainy of war
> > > > is manifold: the final stages of the battle of
> > > Pelennor
> > > > Field.
> > > >
> > > > Alas, Poor Ufthak! (200): Elena Tiriel G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> > > > Romance Partners: n/a "'D'you remember old Ufthak? We lost him for
> > > > days. Then we found him
> > > in a
> > > > corner; hanging up he was, but he was wide awake and
> > > glaring. How we
> > > > laughed! She'd forgotten him, maybe, but we didn't touch him -- no
> > > > good interfering with [Shelob]' ..." (The Two Towers, "The
> > > Choices of
> > > > Master
> > > > Samwise")
> > > >
> > > > Triumph Incarnate (198): Elena Tiriel
> > > > G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> > > > Romance Partners: n/a
> > > > "And Sauron, sitting in his black seat in the midst of the
> > > Temple, had
> > > > laughed when he heard the trumpets of Ar-Pharazôn sounding for
> > > battle; and
> > > > again he had laughed when he heard the thunder of the storm; and a
> > > > third time, even as he laughed at his own thought, thinking what he
> > > > would
> > > do now
> > > > in the world, being rid of the Edain for ever, he was taken in the
> > > midst of
> > > > his mirth, and his seat and his temple fell into the abyss. But
> > > Sauron was
> > > > not of mortal flesh, and though he was robbed now of that shape in
> > > which he
> > > > had wrought so great an evil ... yet his spirit arose out of the
> > > deep ...
> > > > and came back to Middle-earth...." (The Silmarillion, "Akallabêth")
> > > >
> > > > Orc's Best Friend (384): Forodwaith
> > > > G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> > > > Romance Partners: n/a
> > > > A moment between a warg-rider and his steed.
> > > >
> > > > Roast Mutton (1362): Marta
> > > > G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> > > > Romance Partners: n/a
> > > > Bilbo tries to burgle the trolls.
> > > >
> > > > Nine Riders (791): Rabidsamfan
> > > > G, Reason for Rating: N/A
> > > > Romance Partners: N/A
> > > > A set of nine drabbles, one for each of the Black Riders, exploring
> > > their
> > > > personalities, such as they were...
> > > >
> > > > Long March, The (542): Tanaqui
> > > > G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> > > > Romance Partners: n/a
> > > > The thoughts of one of the Haradrim seen by Sam in Ithilien, just
> > > before the
> > > > Rangers attack.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > SubCategory: Races/Places: Villains: Nazgul
> > > >
> > > > Shadowsong (714): Ellisande
> > > > PG, Reason for Rating: adult themes
> > > > Romance Partners: n/a
> > > > "But the hearts of men are easily corrupted..." Why did Sauron's
> > > corruption
> > > > work so well with men and how much of the man is left after ages in
> > > > the shadow? An attempt to look into the mind of the Lord of
> > > the Nazgul.
> > > >
> > > > This Too Shall Pass (742): Isabeau of Greenlea G, Reason
> > > for Rating:
> > > > n/a Romance Partners: n/a An alternate ending to the scene at
> > > > Osgiliath with Frodo and the Nazgul.
> > > >
> > > > Cursed Queen of Angmar (450): khazar_khum R, Reason for Rating:
> > > > violence, torture, erotic content, mature themes Romance Partners:
> > > > Witch-king/OFC (Ariashal) Ariashal of Rhudaur is the unwitting
> > > > lynchpin of her father's
> > > machinations
> > > > with the Witch-king of Angmar. And she's cursed, too.
> > > >
> > > > Gift of Rule (470): Lyllyn
> > > > PG, Reason for Rating: adult themes
> > > > Romance Partners: n/a
> > > > The thoughts of the Witch-king when the gift was given...
> > > and accepted.
> > > >
> > > > Once (485): Meril
> > > > G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> > > > Romance Partners: n/a
> > > > The Lord of the Nazgûl reflects on his mortal life.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > SubCategory: Races/Places: Villains: Orcs
> > > >
> > > > Enmities (561): AmandaK
> > > > PG, Reason for Rating: adult themes
> > > > Romance Partners: n/a
> > > > While men will fight for honor, renown and riches, women have other
> > > reasons
> > > > to fight. A retrospective look at the War of the Ring from
> > > an unusual
> > > > viewpoint.
> > > >
> > > > Strange Bedfellows (250): Dwimordene
> > > > PG, Reason for Rating: adult themes
> > > > Romance Partners: n/a
> > > > An incident between the different armies of Orcs, after the attack
> > > on Parth
> > > > Galen.
> > > >
> > > > The Last Stand (76): Soledad
> > > > PG-13, Reason for Rating: Violence and Sexual Encounters Romance
> > > > Partners: N/A That famous last fight between Éomer and Uglúk, seen
> > > > from Uglúk's perspective. A feeble attempt to create a
> > > glimpse of the
> > > > culture of the Uruk-hai... if there is such thing. I leave the
> > > > judgement to you, oh
> > > most
> > > > gracious readers.
> > > >
> > > > One Dark Day in Lugbúrz (521): Starlight G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> > > > Romance Partners: n/a The orcs of Lugburz set Gollum free.
> > > >
> > > > Full Circle (348): Werecat
> > > > PG, Reason for Rating: disturbing images Romance Partners: n/a
> > > > "Beasts, they've called us". So end the days of Kolgrun, last
> > > warrior of the
> > > > race of orcs.
> > > >
> > > > Wish upon a star (194): Werecat
> > > > PG-13, Reason for Rating: Rating and warning for violence and
> > > > disturbing subjects, although nothing graphic Romance Partners:
> > > > interspecies (orc/OFC) Girl falls to Middle Earth, hoping
> > > to meet the
> > > > object of her desire:
> > > > Legolas. However, things turn quite differently from what she
> > > expected. AU,
> > > > of course. Parody/Black humour.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > SubCategory: Races/Places: Villains: Poetry
> > > >
> > > > Melkor (440): Joan Milligan
> > > > PG, Reason for Rating: adult themes
> > > > Romance Partners: n/a
> > > > Melkor during the Great Music.
> > > >
> > > > Sauron (442): Joan Milligan
> > > > G, Reason for Rating: n/a
> > > > Romance Partners: n/a
> > > > Sauron during the Akallabêth.
> > > >
> > > > Death Doth Come (936): Marta
> > > > PG-13, Reason for Rating: horrific elements Romance
> > > Partners: n/a An
> > > > extending and slight reworking of the Barrow-wight's song.
> > > >
> > > > Prince of Pride (577): Marta
> > > > G, Reason for Rating: N/A
> > > > Romance Partners: N/A
> > > > "Out of the deeps of Ea she came to the aid of Manwe; for Melkor she
> > > knew
> > > > from before the making of the Music and rejected him, and he hated
> > > her, and
> > > > feared her more than all others whom Eru made." ("Of the Valar",
> > > Valaquenta,
> > > > Silmarillion) A sonnet, from Manwë's POV.
> > > >
> > > > Under the Lonely Mountain Cold (965): Marta G, Reason for
> > > Rating: n/a
> > > > Romance Partners: n/a A dwarf drinking song about the death
> > > of Smaug.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> > > --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do
> > > not own computers.
> > > At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide!
> > >
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/S.QlOD/3MnJAA/Zx0JAA/wx3olB/TM
> > >
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> > > ------~->
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
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> That's fine, I didn't say it had to be moved, I just wasn't sure if
> you did want all Orc stories together or not.  It's fine where it is.
>
> From the very start the whole 'categorizing' idea has been confusing
> to me, and I'm really glad I didn't volunteer to be a categorizer.
> I've watched what you guys have gone through to do this and know the
> stress you're under.  But for the post-mortem, perhaps we could
> discuss that a better description could be added to the author
> nomination letter or rules or whatever about how important the
> sub-category is.  To me, since the sub-category section came beneath
> the main category sections, I thought that came AFTER the first three
> choices and so it was more of a throw-away item only to be used if the
> first three weren't viable. And there were no guidelines as to what
> type of sub-categories should be suggested -- for instance, though I
> could guess Mirkwood or Lothlorien or Rohan might be sub-categories, I
> would never have guessed to have put 'Grey Company' in as a
> sub-category, yet one has been created.  And though I personally have
> two Grey Company stories, only one got put in the Grey Company
> category. They're fine with me where they are but a lot of the
> category moves looks rather ... arbitrary and inconsistent.  I'm not
> criticizing, I'm just saying I find the whole process confusing.  (And
> as an author liaison, I got to see a lot of the behind-the-scenes
> stuff that has been going on.)
>

> (I still don't understand how novels of 50,000+ words have to compete
> with short 1,000 word stories ... it wouldn't happen that way in a
> regular competition ...  Why do we have to say the story length anyway
> since other than Drabbles that category seems to have been ignored?)
>

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "Leaward" <leaward_l@y...> wrote:
<snip>
> From the very start the whole 'categorizing' idea has been confusing
> to me, and I'm really glad I didn't volunteer to be a categorizer.
> I've watched what you guys have gone through to do this and know the
> stress you're under. But for the post-mortem, perhaps we could
> discuss that a better description could be added to the author
> nomination letter or rules or whatever about how important the
> sub-category is. To me, since the sub-category section came beneath
> the main category sections, I thought that came AFTER the first
> three choices and so it was more of a throw-away item only to be
> used if the first three weren't viable.

Yes, that was my impression as well during the liaison period.

> And there were no guidelines as to what type of sub-categories
> should be suggested -- for instance, though I could guess Mirkwood
> or Lothlorien or Rohan might be sub-categories, I would never have
> guessed to have put 'Grey Company' in as a sub-category, yet one
> has been created. And though I personally have two Grey Company
> stories, only one got put in the Grey Company category. They're
> fine with me where they are but a lot of the category moves looks
> rather ... arbitrary and inconsistent. I'm not criticizing, I'm
> just saying I find the whole process confusing.

I did Drama. Drama holds a Mirkwood subcategory based on what is
listed in the subcategory. But the amount of stories was less then
20, so it could never be graduated as a subcategory. The same with
Hobbits (I did that one as well), a lot of 'The Shire' mentioned as
sub-category, but not enough nominations to let it graduate. That is
how it was explained to me and how it got categorised. I sticked to
the subcategories as much as possible and if a subcategory got too
big I looked at it and made a new one. This is how Races/Places:
Hobbits: Merry & Pippin or Races/Places: Hobbits: Pippin was made,
just to give you some more insight. This is how I treated the four
main categories that I did, remaining as close to what the author
wished. This way: everybody can win!

But anyway... this morning, before you made the post, I happened to
add the wish for a more transparent and clearer procedure regarding
this, at least about subcategories that graduate, because I still
don't fully understand what happened and how the categoriser did it.
All for post-mortem!

> (And as an author liaison, I got to see a lot of the behind-the-
> scenes stuff that has been going on.)

Yups I know. I have seen the same as you have, but I was also
involved as categoriser.

All good points, and there is plenty of room for improvement... next
year. Because... boy it has been a ride! I am still exhausted.

Rhapsody

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, C Dodd <rabidsamfan@v...> wrote:
<snip>

> Thing is, I'm a librarian.

Hey sweet! We're almost in the same profession. More information
systems & retrieval (& training) here.. but I know the basics of
cataloguing and so on very well.

> I know that all categorization schemes are arbitrary. (Even
> alphabetization can vary according to some arbitrary choices.)The
> minute we start putting things in a hierarchy some considerations
> are going to be left by the wayside and other considerations are
> going to take on an inflated priority. When you throw category
> viability based on numbers into the mix, it's bound to mean some
> clipped corners as pegs are fit into holes.

Yes and no. Categorization is based on a philosophy (think of UDC,
Dewey, NLM and so on), if that principle is clear & transparent:
everybody can work with the system. But if you have to start from
scratch and everybody has their own take/view on it... you need to
have some base guidelines/instructions to begin with. Dare to make
decisions. Categorise on form, remain true to that, categorise on
given subcategories only: remain true to that. If you mix things...
people are bound to get lost. It would be the same in the library
when you say: ok all the red books first, then green, then blue. But
then all of a sudden you decide to mix the colours because you want
to have them all on subject together....

So there you are as patron, going for the section red, but then you
encounter a space where everything is mixed up.. the pattern gets
lost. It is all about making information accessible in a customer
friendly way...

> So I pretty much just accepted what I've been told, and am ready to
> run with that...

Just bear in mind that check ballot season was intended to be
finished before reading season, including the lovely views and
filters on them. My feeling is that this is all to come.

> (But, darn it, now I've got me *another* postmortem discussion
> idea. Oh, Marta...!)

Yeah, a nice soap box isn't it?

Rhapsody

>
> Yes and no. Categorization is based on a philosophy (think of UDC,
> Dewey, NLM and so on), if that principle is clear & transparent:
> everybody can work with the system. But if you have to start from
> scratch and everybody has their own take/view on it... you need to
> have some base guidelines/instructions to begin with. Dare to make
> decisions. Categorise on form, remain true to that, categorise on
> given subcategories only: remain true to that. If you mix things...
> people are bound to get lost. It would be the same in the library
> when you say: ok all the red books first, then green, then blue. But
> then all of a sudden you decide to mix the colours because you want
> to have them all on subject together....
>
> So there you are as patron, going for the section red, but then you
> encounter a space where everything is mixed up.. the pattern gets
> lost. It is all about making information accessible in a customer
> friendly way...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Leaward
> Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 7:20 AM
> To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [MEFAwards] Re: Races/Places: Villains, Check Ballot #3
>
> That's fine, I didn't say it had to be moved, I just wasn't
> sure if you did want all Orc stories together or not. It's
> fine where it is.
>
> From the very start the whole 'categorizing' idea has been
> confusing to me, and I'm really glad I didn't volunteer to be
> a categorizer.
> I've watched what you guys have gone through to do this and
> know the stress you're under. But for the post-mortem,
> perhaps we could discuss that a better description could be
> added to the author nomination letter or rules or whatever
> about how important the sub-category is. To me, since the
> sub-category section came beneath the main category sections,
> I thought that came AFTER the first three choices and so it
> was more of a throw-away item only to be used if the first
> three weren't viable. And there were no guidelines as to what
> type of sub-categories should be suggested -- for instance,
> though I could guess Mirkwood or Lothlorien or Rohan might be
> sub-categories, I would never have guessed to have put 'Grey
> Company' in as a sub-category, yet one has been created. And
> though I personally have two Grey Company stories, only one
> got put in the Grey Company category. They're fine with me
> where they are but a lot of the category moves looks rather
> ... arbitrary and inconsistent. I'm not criticizing, I'm
> just saying I find the whole process confusing. (And as an
> author liaison, I got to see a lot of the behind-the-scenes
> stuff that has been going on.)

> (I still don't understand how novels of 50,000+ words have to
> compete with short 1,000 word stories ... it wouldn't happen
> that way in a regular competition ... Why do we have to say
> the story length anyway since other than Drabbles that
> category seems to have been ignored?)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of C Dodd
> Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 8:27 AM
> To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MEFAwards] Re: Races/Places: Villains, Check Ballot #3
>
> From an author point of view the category/subcategory thing
> was confusing for me too, and some of that came up because
> drabbles get split out twice, once as a story type and once
> as a subcategory.

>
> Now I figure that you pulled out drabbles for the same reason
> that you pulled out poetry, particularly since (thank you!)
> you have been strict about the definition. And as a drabble
> writer, I like the notion of drabbles competing with
> drabbles. But at the same time I felt like my drabble series
> "Nine Riders" was about the Nazgul and once I knew that the
> subcategory "Nazgul" existed (which I didn't, until the check
> ballot stage) I could see that it belonged just as much in
> that subcategory as it did the drabble subcategory.

>
> While it was in the nomination phase, I did suggest a
> subcategory of "character exposition" for that story which
> was not picked up because
> a) no one else knew about it and b) it wasn't very good. If
> I'd known there was a subcategory for the Nazgul I'd have
> used it, but I didn't know where to look for a list of
> subcategories, and even if I had known, my understanding was
> limited and I thought that the subcategories had to be more
> encompassing than that.

>
> Thing is, I'm a librarian. I know that all categorization
> schemes are arbitrary. (Even alphabetization can vary
> according to some arbitrary choices.)

> The minute we start
> putting things in a hierarchy some considerations are going
> to be left by the wayside and other considerations are going
> to take on an inflated priority. When you throw category
> viability based on numbers into the mix, it's bound to mean
> some clipped corners as pegs are fit into holes.

> So I pretty much just accepted what I've been told, and am
> ready to run with that...
>
> (But, darn it, now I've got me *another* postmortem discussion idea.
> Oh, Marta...!)

>And there were no guidelines as to what type of sub-categories
> should be suggested -- for instance, though I could guess Mirkwood
> or Lothlorien or Rohan might be sub-categories, I would never have
> guessed to have put 'Grey Company' in as a sub-category, yet one
> has been created. And though I personally have two Grey Company

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "Ainaechoiriel" <mefaadmin@e...> wrote:
<snip>

> > Thing is, I'm a librarian. I know that all categorization
> > schemes are arbitrary. (Even alphabetization can vary
> > according to some arbitrary choices.)
>
> Where do you put the Mc's? Some put them at the beginning of M.
> Some after Ma (or a potential Mb). Some put them at the end of M.

That depends on how the authorname is written ;) MacDonalds gets Mac
an McDonalds gets a McD ;) That is, with coding you shorten the author
name to three letters (generally used in the branches of industry I
worked in).

Rhapsody

> I had trouble too at first coming up with categories, though it got
> easier the more stories I nominated, and the more stories others
> nominated that I could look at to see what they had chosen. A
> standard list might be helpful next year. Marta, could you add that
> to your list if you haven't yet?

>

> Anyway, back to skills. Not everyone who writes drabbles can write

> It takes a different skill. You can write a review about an author as a
> poet or drabbler. Does it take different skills to write a long

> a short? That's a debate, too. I write both and see each as harder and
> easier than the other in different ways. I think I'm the same

> way. I didn't know I was a drabbler until this year. I had

> idea I could write a parody filk until this year either. I

> those as separate skills.

>
> That depends on how the authorname is written ;) MacDonalds gets Mac
> an McDonalds gets a McD ;) That is, with coding you shorten the author
> name to three letters (generally used in the branches of industry I
> worked in).
>
> Rhapsody
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
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> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

On 10 Jun 2005, at 09:26, C Dodd wrote:

> Now I figure that you pulled out drabbles for the same reason that you
> pulled out poetry, particularly since (thank you!) you have been
> strict about the definition. And  as a drabble writer, I like the
> notion of drabbles competing with drabbles.

Yes, I am glad that we're strict about it. I know that several of my
double drabbles were originally tagged as drabbles, but that's only
because I thought that the 200-word drabble was a legitimate variation
on the drabble. (Because they're called double drabble... that was my
misunderstanding.) Anyway, I'm glad that the drabble definition is
clearer now, so I'll be able to put my things in the right place next
year. I think they're all properly sorted now.

> But at the same time I
> felt like my drabble series "Nine Riders" was about the Nazgul and
> once I knew that the subcategory "Nazgul" existed (which I didn't,
> until the check ballot stage) I could see that it belonged just as
> much in that subcategory as it did the drabble subcategory.
>

I understand your concern, and drabble series seem to straddle the line
between drabble and ficlet. I know of one series that has one drabble
for each queen of Gondor -- so that's 2600 words. Each of them is a
drabble, but together they tell a much fuller story than any single
drabble ever could. I think we need to discuss this more in the
post-mortem. My thought is that we should consider giving authors of
drabble series the option of placing them in drabble subcategories, or
in non-drabble subcategories.

Another thought (which I suggested last year) is to have a "drabble"
category, which we could then shape into appropriate subcategories. So
all drabbles and drabble series would *have* to have Gr: Drabble as
their first choice category. From there we would put them into
appropriate subcategories. This would amount to having Gr:
Drabble/Hobbit instead of RP: Hobbits/Drabble, for instance. This would
let us set up a subcategory for Drabble Series. But again, that's
something to discuss in the fall. I'll add both of these to the list.

> While it was in the nomination phase, I did suggest a subcategory of
> "character exposition" for that story which was not picked up because
> a) no one else knew about it and b) it wasn't very good.  If I'd known
> there was a subcategory for the Nazgul I'd have used it, but I didn't
> know where to look for a list of subcategories, and even if I had
> known, my understanding was limited and I thought that the
> subcategories had to be more encompassing than that.
>

No one knows what the subcategories will be because the categorisers
themselves don't know until after nomination season is over. Then we
sit down, look at the subcategories, and try to find ones in common.

If it would help, I can come up with a list of the subcategories for
the last two years to give people examples of the kinds of things they
might suggest.

> (But, darn it, now I've got me *another* postmortem discussion idea.
> Oh, Marta...!)
>

*snork* Now you know what I feel like! Go ahead and add it to the
database.

Marta
*****
Home is where you hang your @.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> I had trouble too at first coming up with categories, though it got
> easier the more stories I nominated, and the more stories others
> nominated that I could look at to see what they had chosen. A standard
> list might be helpful next year. Marta, could you add that to your
> list if you haven't yet?
>

> Yes, I am glad that we're strict about it. I know that several of my
> double drabbles were originally tagged as drabbles, but that's only
> because I thought that the 200-word drabble was a legitimate variation
> on the drabble. (Because they're called double drabble... that was my
> misunderstanding.) Anyway, I'm glad that the drabble definition is
> clearer now, so I'll be able to put my things in the right place next
> year. I think they're all properly sorted now.
>

>
> Another thought (which I suggested last year) is to have a "drabble"
> category, which we could then shape into appropriate subcategories. So
> all drabbles and drabble series would *have* to have Gr: Drabble as
> their first choice category. From there we would put them into
> appropriate subcategories. This would amount to having Gr:
> Drabble/Hobbit instead of RP: Hobbits/Drabble, for instance. This would
> let us set up a subcategory for Drabble Series. But again, that's
> something to discuss in the fall. I'll add both of these to the list.
>

>
> No one knows what the subcategories will be because the categorisers
> themselves don't know until after nomination season is over. Then we
> sit down, look at the subcategories, and try to find ones in common.
>
> If it would help, I can come up with a list of the subcategories for
> the last two years to give people examples of the kinds of things they
> might suggest.

>
> *snork* Now you know what I feel like! Go ahead and add it to the
> database.
>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of C Dodd
> Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 10:09 PM
> To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MEFAwards] drabbles and categorisation; was:
> Re: Races/Places: Villains, Check Ballot #3
>
> On 6/10/05, Marta Layton <melayton@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Not knowing the origin of drabbles when I started writing
> them (what was it -- fourteen months ago?) I started calling
> 200 words "droubbles" and 300 words "trabbles" to
> differentiate them from proper drabbles. (And yes, I call
> 150 words a sesquidrabble.) As a result,
> although I don't know how directly, LJ now has a community called
> "toilanddrouble". I actually find any exact word length
> enough of a challenge to differentiate it from an open form,
> but since I much prefer the word "drabble" to mean 100 words
> precisely I'll continue to use my coined terms for the variations.

> > Another thought (which I suggested last year) is to have a
> "drabble"
> > category, which we could then shape into appropriate
> subcategories. So
> > all drabbles and drabble series would *have* to have Gr: Drabble as
> > their first choice category. From there we would put them into
> > appropriate subcategories. This would amount to having Gr:
> > Drabble/Hobbit instead of RP: Hobbits/Drabble, for instance. This
> > would let us set up a subcategory for Drabble Series. But again,
> > that's something to discuss in the fall. I'll add both of
> these to the list.
> >
> That's one way of approaching it, certainly.

> >
> Since I have no idea how to add things to the database, I
> actually already sent you a note about my idea in a side
> e-mail. (That is, if I got the address right.) It's a
> little rambly, but I'm full of cold meds today. It can wait
> till the postmortem as long as it doesn't get lost, tho.

> > Thing is, I'm a librarian. I know that all categorization
> > schemes are arbitrary. (Even alphabetization can vary
> > according to some arbitrary choices.)
>
> Where do you put the Mc's? Some put them at the beginning of M.
> Some after Ma (or a potential Mb). Some put them at the end of M.

>
> In a message dated 6/10/2005 3:00:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> rhapsody74@g... writes:
>
> > > Thing is, I'm a librarian. I know that all categorization
> > > schemes are arbitrary. (Even alphabetization can vary
> > > according to some arbitrary choices.)
> >
> > Where do you put the Mc's? Some put them at the beginning of M.
> > Some after Ma (or a potential Mb). Some put them at the end of M.
>
>
>
>
> I'm not a librarian, but I work at BWI, which sells books to public
> libraries, and I can tell you that everyone does things differently.

> diversity in infinite combinations and all that....
>
> Isabeau

>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>On 10 Jun 2005, at 14:57, MarigoldCotton@aol.com wrote:
>
>> I had trouble too at first coming up with categories, though it got
>> easier the more stories I nominated, and the more stories others
>> nominated that I could look at to see what they had chosen. A standard
>> list might be helpful next year. Marta, could you add that to your
>> list if you haven't yet?
>>
>
>I'd be glad to. But just so I'm understanding, you want a list of
>*sub*categories? I also typed up a categorisation guide at some point,
>but I never found it at http://home.earthlink.net/~ainae/mefa/ . Ainae,
>do you remember that? Did it ever get up to the website and I just
>can't find it.
>
>Marta
>*****
>Home is where you hang your @.
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>