Yahoo Forum Archive

Proposed categorization form

*************

MEFA entries have story forms giving basic information about the
entry, and these entries are organized by a main category and
(sometimes) a subcategory. This form will help determine which
category and subcategory your entry will compete in, and allow us to
complete the story form as accurately as possible.

STORY FORM: Please read *all* instructions, and complete all fields to
the extent required.

BASICS

Title: [nominator provided]
Author: [nominator provided]
Summary: [Provided by nominator if available on a website; if not
available, author should supply]
Rating (if incorrect, please change): [already provided]
Warnings (choose all that apply):
Extreme violence
Graphic depictions of sex
Mature themes
Non-canonical romance: m/f
Non-canonical romance: m/m or f/f
Non-canonical romance: multiple partners
Incestuous attraction
None
URL (if other site preferred, please replace): [provided by nominator]

Please choose *one* and *only one* from each of the following two lists:

My story is:
1. Fiction
2. Non-fiction (if non-fiction, please skip to number 6 in
"Subcategories")


My story is best described as a...

1. Drabble (100 words exactly, plus 15 for title)
2. Drabble cycle (a series of individual drabbles connected by a theme)
3. Ficlet (101 up to, but not including, 500 words)
4. Short Story (500-10,000 words)
5. Novella (10,001-50,000 words)
6. Novel (>50,000 words)
7. Poem (any length)


MAIN CATEGORIES

Please choose *one* and *only one* from *each* of the following lists.
Your responses will help us to try to place your story into a main
catagory, subject to main category viability rules.

A. Which of the following covers the events around which your story is
constructed?

1. The Hobbit (including any material from "Unfinished Tales" or HoME
with a bearing on the events of"The Hobbit")

2. The Lord of the Rings (up through Frodo's departure from
Middle-earth; including any material from "Unfinished Tales" or HoME
with a bearing on the events of LOTR)

3. The Silmarillion (including any material from "Unfinished Tales" or
HoME with a bearing on the events of "The Silmarillion")

4. My story covers events after Frodo's departure from Middle-earth

5. My story covers events prior to the beginning of "The Fellowship of
the Ring", but not included in "The Hobbit" or in any material from
"Unfinished Tales" or HoME.

6. My story is based on material in "Unfinished Tales" or HoME that
does not fall into any of the above categories

7. My story is based on a filmed version of "The Hobbit" or "Lord of
the Rings" (i.e., Peter Jackson's films, Bakshi's "Lord of the Rings"
cartoon, Rankin-Bass's "Return of the King" or "The Hobbit" cartoons)


B. Which of these genres best describes your story?

1. Action/Adventure
2. Alternate Universe
3. Crossover
4. Drama (includes Angst)
5. Horror
6. Humor
7. Mystery
8. Romance

C. Which of the following types of characters would you say is the
primary focus of your story?

1. Dwarves
2. Elves
3. Ents
4. Hobbits
5. Men
6. Valar/Ainur
7. Villains
8. Other
9. Story specifically interested in depicting and examining
interspecies interactions


D. Rank the categories you chose above, beginning with whatever one
seems most suitable for your story to compete in, and ending on the
catagory choice that seems least suitable.



SUBCATEGORIES

Please fill in, in *one hundred or fewer words*, the following
information. Your responses will help MEFA categorizers create
subcategories, subject to subcategory viability rules.

1. Where does your story primarily take place, or about which place
does your story revolve (e.g., Gondolin, Houses of Healing, Beleriand,
Rohan, The Angle, The Shire, Angband etc.)?


2. Who are your *main* characters, in order of priority?


3. Which time periods does the story primarily take place in/focus on
(e.g., First Age, Time of Trees, Fourth Age, etc.)?


4. If your story is based on filmed versions of Tolkien's work, which
film/set of films is it based on?

5. Is there a major canonical event around which your story revolves
(e.g., Akallabeth, destruction of Sirion, making of Khazad-dûm, Battle
of Unnumbered Tears, etc.)?

6. If your story is a poem, what is its form (e.g., haiku, tanka,
terzanelle, sonnet, free verse etc.)?


7. If your story is non-fiction, what is its main topic?




***************

Explanation/comments

I tried to create an e-mail form that could be sent to authors whose
work had been nominated. I tried to incorporate *some* of RSFs
suggestions in a manner that seemed workable to me, and to break up
the form into manageable chunks. It is roughly 3 pages long, so think
how one might feel if one got even one of these to fill out.

The main goal is to break up categorization into conceptually
manageable chunks, for both the author and the categorizers and so
avoid overload and/or confusion. After that, the aim is to try to make
the form something that can be filled out relatively quickly and with
a minimum of thought.

So we start with BASICS, the main story form, minus category fields,
with indications of what the author should fill in for us. The two
lists under BASICS are meant to help us create filters, but also to
identify immediately two forms that may require special treatment (we
can immediately move non-fiction stories to their own category; we
could, if we wished, have poetry easily marked and filterable).

"That Which Must Be Identified" has been moved to warnings; I think
this would work since the major possibilities would be covered.
Graphic (but not NC-17 graphic) sex between canonical characters is
easily indicated, as is extreme violence (of whatever type);
non-canonical romances of both het and slash varieties are easily
indicated but without necessarily requiring the user either to
identify the characters involved in the relationship, if that
revelation is part of the story's unfolding, or requiring the author
to use the word "slash". It simplifies the form and makes it easy for
readers concerned about such things to find out whether they want to
read the story.


The CATEGORIES section is hopefully straightforward, and the easiest
part to fill out, consisting as it does of only three lists and check
boxes, and one request to order one's choices according to preference.


The SUBCATEGORIES section is question based, but limited to a certain
number of words to keep things manageable. Some examples are included
to give the author some guidance without presenting an exhaustive (or
seemingly exhaustsive... and lengthy) list. The aim is to elicit
specific information (in short form) from the author that might serve
to create categories or more carefully place the author's entry for
the convenience of categorizers, who may see themes developing that
could be used as subcategories across multiple author response forms.
This way, there's no need for categorizers to deal with the summary,
which in some cases is delibertely misleading for good reason.

What do you think? Would this work as a form? Could it (or something
like it) be turned into a webform, thus reducing the data entry end of
things for categorizers and admins? (That might also let us force
authors to log into the site at least once, and so make sure that
should a time come when they decide they want to participate, they
know already what their screennames and passwords are? This would
eliminate the problem of people contacting admins late in the game and
being unsure whether they are even registered at the site.) Are there
questions or categories missing? Are the redundancies likely to be
off-putting to authors?

Dwim

Well, I'm impressed. And even though it's long, I think it's fairly quick to
go through. (I just did a mental run through for one of my own stories, and
it took about two minutes.)
It might work even more easily as a webform. (Yay, ticky boxes!) Having
authors visit the site at least once would also be a nice side benefit, as
you say, and some of the information could be collated by the computer.
It occurs to me that there ought to be a way for an author to say "don't
reveal this aspect" of a story, for the kind of story that part of the fun
is working out who is speaking, or even leaving it open enough that the
reader can pick and choose. Is "twisty" a genre?
Must sleep now...

On 11/17/05, dwimmer_laik <dwimmer_laik@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Proposed categorization form
>
> *************
>
> MEFA entries have story forms giving basic information about the
> entry, and these entries are organized by a main category and
> (sometimes) a subcategory. This form will help determine which
> category and subcategory your entry will compete in, and allow us to
> complete the story form as accurately as possible.
>
> STORY FORM: Please read *all* instructions, and complete all fields to
> the extent required.
>
> BASICS
>
> Title: [nominator provided]
> Author: [nominator provided]
> Summary: [Provided by nominator if available on a website; if not
> available, author should supply]
> Rating (if incorrect, please change): [already provided]
> Warnings (choose all that apply):
> Extreme violence
> Graphic depictions of sex
> Mature themes
> Non-canonical romance: m/f
> Non-canonical romance: m/m or f/f
> Non-canonical romance: multiple partners
> Incestuous attraction
> None
> URL (if other site preferred, please replace): [provided by nominator]
>
> Please choose *one* and *only one* from each of the following two lists:
>
> My story is:
> 1. Fiction
> 2. Non-fiction (if non-fiction, please skip to number 6 in
> "Subcategories")
>
>
> My story is best described as a...
>
> 1. Drabble (100 words exactly, plus 15 for title)
> 2. Drabble cycle (a series of individual drabbles connected by a theme)
> 3. Ficlet (101 up to, but not including, 500 words)
> 4. Short Story (500-10,000 words)
> 5. Novella (10,001-50,000 words)
> 6. Novel (>50,000 words)
> 7. Poem (any length)
>
>
> MAIN CATEGORIES
>
> Please choose *one* and *only one* from *each* of the following lists.
> Your responses will help us to try to place your story into a main
> catagory, subject to main category viability rules.
>
> A. Which of the following covers the events around which your story is
> constructed?
>
> 1. The Hobbit (including any material from "Unfinished Tales" or HoME
> with a bearing on the events of"The Hobbit")
>
> 2. The Lord of the Rings (up through Frodo's departure from
> Middle-earth; including any material from "Unfinished Tales" or HoME
> with a bearing on the events of LOTR)
>
> 3. The Silmarillion (including any material from "Unfinished Tales" or
> HoME with a bearing on the events of "The Silmarillion")
>
> 4. My story covers events after Frodo's departure from Middle-earth
>
> 5. My story covers events prior to the beginning of "The Fellowship of
> the Ring", but not included in "The Hobbit" or in any material from
> "Unfinished Tales" or HoME.
>
> 6. My story is based on material in "Unfinished Tales" or HoME that
> does not fall into any of the above categories
>
> 7. My story is based on a filmed version of "The Hobbit" or "Lord of
> the Rings" (i.e., Peter Jackson's films, Bakshi's "Lord of the Rings"
> cartoon, Rankin-Bass's "Return of the King" or "The Hobbit" cartoons)
>
>
> B. Which of these genres best describes your story?
>
> 1. Action/Adventure
> 2. Alternate Universe
> 3. Crossover
> 4. Drama (includes Angst)
> 5. Horror
> 6. Humor
> 7. Mystery
> 8. Romance
>
> C. Which of the following types of characters would you say is the
> primary focus of your story?
>
> 1. Dwarves
> 2. Elves
> 3. Ents
> 4. Hobbits
> 5. Men
> 6. Valar/Ainur
> 7. Villains
> 8. Other
> 9. Story specifically interested in depicting and examining
> interspecies interactions
>
>
> D. Rank the categories you chose above, beginning with whatever one
> seems most suitable for your story to compete in, and ending on the
> catagory choice that seems least suitable.
>
>
>
> SUBCATEGORIES
>
> Please fill in, in *one hundred or fewer words*, the following
> information. Your responses will help MEFA categorizers create
> subcategories, subject to subcategory viability rules.
>
> 1. Where does your story primarily take place, or about which place
> does your story revolve (e.g., Gondolin, Houses of Healing, Beleriand,
> Rohan, The Angle, The Shire, Angband etc.)?
>
>
> 2. Who are your *main* characters, in order of priority?
>
>
> 3. Which time periods does the story primarily take place in/focus on
> (e.g., First Age, Time of Trees, Fourth Age, etc.)?
>
>
> 4. If your story is based on filmed versions of Tolkien's work, which
> film/set of films is it based on?
>
> 5. Is there a major canonical event around which your story revolves
> (e.g., Akallabeth, destruction of Sirion, making of Khazad-dûm, Battle
> of Unnumbered Tears, etc.)?
>
> 6. If your story is a poem, what is its form (e.g., haiku, tanka,
> terzanelle, sonnet, free verse etc.)?
>
>
> 7. If your story is non-fiction, what is its main topic?
>
>
>
>
> ***************
>
> Explanation/comments
>
> I tried to create an e-mail form that could be sent to authors whose
> work had been nominated. I tried to incorporate *some* of RSFs
> suggestions in a manner that seemed workable to me, and to break up
> the form into manageable chunks. It is roughly 3 pages long, so think
> how one might feel if one got even one of these to fill out.
>
> The main goal is to break up categorization into conceptually
> manageable chunks, for both the author and the categorizers and so
> avoid overload and/or confusion. After that, the aim is to try to make
> the form something that can be filled out relatively quickly and with
> a minimum of thought.
>
> So we start with BASICS, the main story form, minus category fields,
> with indications of what the author should fill in for us. The two
> lists under BASICS are meant to help us create filters, but also to
> identify immediately two forms that may require special treatment (we
> can immediately move non-fiction stories to their own category; we
> could, if we wished, have poetry easily marked and filterable).
>
> "That Which Must Be Identified" has been moved to warnings; I think
> this would work since the major possibilities would be covered.
> Graphic (but not NC-17 graphic) sex between canonical characters is
> easily indicated, as is extreme violence (of whatever type);
> non-canonical romances of both het and slash varieties are easily
> indicated but without necessarily requiring the user either to
> identify the characters involved in the relationship, if that
> revelation is part of the story's unfolding, or requiring the author
> to use the word "slash". It simplifies the form and makes it easy for
> readers concerned about such things to find out whether they want to
> read the story.
>
>
> The CATEGORIES section is hopefully straightforward, and the easiest
> part to fill out, consisting as it does of only three lists and check
> boxes, and one request to order one's choices according to preference.
>
>
> The SUBCATEGORIES section is question based, but limited to a certain
> number of words to keep things manageable. Some examples are included
> to give the author some guidance without presenting an exhaustive (or
> seemingly exhaustsive... and lengthy) list. The aim is to elicit
> specific information (in short form) from the author that might serve
> to create categories or more carefully place the author's entry for
> the convenience of categorizers, who may see themes developing that
> could be used as subcategories across multiple author response forms.
> This way, there's no need for categorizers to deal with the summary,
> which in some cases is delibertely misleading for good reason.
>
> What do you think? Would this work as a form? Could it (or something
> like it) be turned into a webform, thus reducing the data entry end of
> things for categorizers and admins? (That might also let us force
> authors to log into the site at least once, and so make sure that
> should a time come when they decide they want to participate, they
> know already what their screennames and passwords are? This would
> eliminate the problem of people contacting admins late in the game and
> being unsure whether they are even registered at the site.) Are there
> questions or categories missing? Are the redundancies likely to be
> off-putting to authors?
>
> Dwim
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
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>
>
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> on the web.
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I like this a lot if it can be put in a form with ticky boxes on the
web. I know the couple of authors I talked to last year saw the
length of the introductory email and let it scroll up in their box -
planning to come back to it when they had time to read the whole
thing and think about it, and ended up forgetting about it, or never
getting through the whole mail.

If they can be sent a form that says "Congrats, you've been
nominated, click here to complete and accept the nominatation," I
think that would be a lot better.

Sulriel



--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "dwimmer_laik" <dwimmer_laik@y...>
wrote:

>
> Proposed categorization form
>
> *************
>
> MEFA entries have story forms giving basic information about the
> entry, and these entries are organized by a main category and
> (sometimes) a subcategory. This form will help determine which
> category and subcategory your entry will compete in, and allow us to
> complete the story form as accurately as possible.
>
> STORY FORM: Please read *all* instructions, and complete all fields

to

> the extent required.
>
> BASICS
>
> Title: [nominator provided]
> Author: [nominator provided]
> Summary: [Provided by nominator if available on a website; if not
> available, author should supply]
> Rating (if incorrect, please change): [already provided]
> Warnings (choose all that apply):
> Extreme violence
> Graphic depictions of sex
> Mature themes
> Non-canonical romance: m/f
> Non-canonical romance: m/m or f/f
> Non-canonical romance: multiple partners
> Incestuous attraction
> None
> URL (if other site preferred, please replace): [provided by

nominator]

>
> Please choose *one* and *only one* from each of the following two

lists:

>
> My story is:
> 1. Fiction
> 2. Non-fiction (if non-fiction, please skip to number 6 in
> "Subcategories")
>
>
> My story is best described as a...
>
> 1. Drabble (100 words exactly, plus 15 for title)
> 2. Drabble cycle (a series of individual drabbles connected by a

theme)

> 3. Ficlet (101 up to, but not including, 500 words)
> 4. Short Story (500-10,000 words)
> 5. Novella (10,001-50,000 words)
> 6. Novel (>50,000 words)
> 7. Poem (any length)
>
>
> MAIN CATEGORIES
>
> Please choose *one* and *only one* from *each* of the following

lists.

> Your responses will help us to try to place your story into a main
> catagory, subject to main category viability rules.
>
> A. Which of the following covers the events around which your story

is

> constructed?
>
> 1. The Hobbit (including any material from "Unfinished Tales" or

HoME

> with a bearing on the events of"The Hobbit")
>
> 2. The Lord of the Rings (up through Frodo's departure from
> Middle-earth; including any material from "Unfinished Tales" or HoME
> with a bearing on the events of LOTR)
>
> 3. The Silmarillion (including any material from "Unfinished Tales"

or

> HoME with a bearing on the events of "The Silmarillion")
>
> 4. My story covers events after Frodo's departure from Middle-earth
>
> 5. My story covers events prior to the beginning of "The Fellowship

of

> the Ring", but not included in "The Hobbit" or in any material from
> "Unfinished Tales" or HoME.
>
> 6. My story is based on material in "Unfinished Tales" or HoME that
> does not fall into any of the above categories
>
> 7. My story is based on a filmed version of "The Hobbit" or "Lord of
> the Rings" (i.e., Peter Jackson's films, Bakshi's "Lord of the

Rings"

> cartoon, Rankin-Bass's "Return of the King" or "The Hobbit"

cartoons)

>
>
> B. Which of these genres best describes your story?
>
> 1. Action/Adventure
> 2. Alternate Universe
> 3. Crossover
> 4. Drama (includes Angst)
> 5. Horror
> 6. Humor
> 7. Mystery
> 8. Romance
>
> C. Which of the following types of characters would you say is the
> primary focus of your story?
>
> 1. Dwarves
> 2. Elves
> 3. Ents
> 4. Hobbits
> 5. Men
> 6. Valar/Ainur
> 7. Villains
> 8. Other
> 9. Story specifically interested in depicting and examining
> interspecies interactions
>
>
> D. Rank the categories you chose above, beginning with whatever one
> seems most suitable for your story to compete in, and ending on the
> catagory choice that seems least suitable.
>
>
>
> SUBCATEGORIES
>
> Please fill in, in *one hundred or fewer words*, the following
> information. Your responses will help MEFA categorizers create
> subcategories, subject to subcategory viability rules.
>
> 1. Where does your story primarily take place, or about which place
> does your story revolve (e.g., Gondolin, Houses of Healing,

Beleriand,

> Rohan, The Angle, The Shire, Angband etc.)?
>
>
> 2. Who are your *main* characters, in order of priority?
>
>
> 3. Which time periods does the story primarily take place in/focus

on

> (e.g., First Age, Time of Trees, Fourth Age, etc.)?
>
>
> 4. If your story is based on filmed versions of Tolkien's work,

which

> film/set of films is it based on?
>
> 5. Is there a major canonical event around which your story revolves
> (e.g., Akallabeth, destruction of Sirion, making of Khazad-dûm,

Battle

> of Unnumbered Tears, etc.)?
>
> 6. If your story is a poem, what is its form (e.g., haiku, tanka,
> terzanelle, sonnet, free verse etc.)?
>
>
> 7. If your story is non-fiction, what is its main topic?
>
>
>
>
> ***************
>
> Explanation/comments
>
> I tried to create an e-mail form that could be sent to authors whose
> work had been nominated. I tried to incorporate *some* of RSFs
> suggestions in a manner that seemed workable to me, and to break up
> the form into manageable chunks. It is roughly 3 pages long, so

think

> how one might feel if one got even one of these to fill out.
>
> The main goal is to break up categorization into conceptually
> manageable chunks, for both the author and the categorizers and so
> avoid overload and/or confusion. After that, the aim is to try to

make

> the form something that can be filled out relatively quickly and

with

> a minimum of thought.
>
> So we start with BASICS, the main story form, minus category

fields,

> with indications of what the author should fill in for us. The two
> lists under BASICS are meant to help us create filters, but also to
> identify immediately two forms that may require special treatment

(we

> can immediately move non-fiction stories to their own category; we
> could, if we wished, have poetry easily marked and filterable).
>
> "That Which Must Be Identified" has been moved to warnings; I think
> this would work since the major possibilities would be covered.
> Graphic (but not NC-17 graphic) sex between canonical characters is
> easily indicated, as is extreme violence (of whatever type);
> non-canonical romances of both het and slash varieties are easily
> indicated but without necessarily requiring the user either to
> identify the characters involved in the relationship, if that
> revelation is part of the story's unfolding, or requiring the author
> to use the word "slash". It simplifies the form and makes it easy

for

> readers concerned about such things to find out whether they want to
> read the story.
>
>
> The CATEGORIES section is hopefully straightforward, and the easiest
> part to fill out, consisting as it does of only three lists and

check

> boxes, and one request to order one's choices according to

preference.

>
>
> The SUBCATEGORIES section is question based, but limited to a

certain

> number of words to keep things manageable. Some examples are

included

> to give the author some guidance without presenting an exhaustive

(or

> seemingly exhaustsive... and lengthy) list. The aim is to elicit
> specific information (in short form) from the author that might

serve

> to create categories or more carefully place the author's entry for
> the convenience of categorizers, who may see themes developing that
> could be used as subcategories across multiple author response

forms.

> This way, there's no need for categorizers to deal with the summary,
> which in some cases is delibertely misleading for good reason.
>
> What do you think? Would this work as a form? Could it (or something
> like it) be turned into a webform, thus reducing the data entry end

of

> things for categorizers and admins? (That might also let us force
> authors to log into the site at least once, and so make sure that
> should a time come when they decide they want to participate, they
> know already what their screennames and passwords are? This would
> eliminate the problem of people contacting admins late in the game

and

> being unsure whether they are even registered at the site.) Are

there

> questions or categories missing? Are the redundancies likely to be
> off-putting to authors?
>
> Dwim
>

> If they can be sent a form that says "Congrats, you've been
> nominated, click here to complete and accept the nominatation," I
> think that would be a lot better.
>
> Sulriel

My thinking exactly. An 11 K e-mail, such as was sent this year, is
rather intimidating. If we can get them to log in and just tick off
boxes, then hopefully, by the time they come to the questionaire
section, they'll be on a roll and just go easily along to the end of
the form.

I've added two more SUBCATEGORIES questions to handle your
essay/article distinction and another to cover weird subgenres (filk,
metafic, pastiche, etc.). I've also put an ending question under the
heading ATTENTION MEFA CATEGORIZERS that should let the person tell
us, just by listing numbers, whether any questions s/he answered would
give away the plot unacceptably, so don't use that information in
categorizing.

I can repost with additions if people want, or we can have at the form
as it currently stands and see what else people think of it. Maybe
posting it at the LJ would also be good? So LJers can poke at it, too?

Re: 'mirror image' category/subcategory (henceforth c/s) combinations,
such as Rohan: Romance and Romance: Rohan, I agree these should be
eliminated, as they seem a tad ridiculous.

My suggestion would be: go ahead and make them *initially*. But then,
when the first pass of categorization is done, make the following
judgment:

1. Determine whether a major category (Dwarves, for instance) is in
peril of becoming non-viable if it were to lose the fics in the mirror
image subcat.

2. If this is not a danger, then for whichever of the 'mirroring' c/s
pairs has fewer fics in it, move its entries to the c/s with the
greater number of them. It makes the c/s more substantial (more fics,
yay), and may help graduate the subcat to a full cat in its own right.
If we have all the info from something *like* the SUBCATEGORIES
questionnaire, then it should be easy to create subcats for the new
category if desirable.

3. If it *is* a danger, then move the larger mirror image c/s into the
smaller one, to keep the major category in play.

4. If *both* categories are in danger of becoming non-viable if they
lose fics in the mirror image subcats (doubtful, but for the sake of
completeness), see whether other information gleaned from something
like a questionnaire would let you create a different set of
subcategories that don't overlap but which still make sense.

Dwim

Hi Dwim,

I have a question and some suggestions regarding your proposed form.

The question: Does this form assume we are retaining the present
three category divisions of Books/Time, Genres, and Races/Places
(even if the names change somewhat)?

The suggestions: Under Main Categories, I think that just as B and C
are clearly labeled as "genre" and "character types," A should be
clearly labeled as "time period." Using familiar terms like Fourth
Age and Pre-quest, followed by definitions, would help as well.
Under #5, I think "not included in `The Hobbit'" is too vague. I
think you mean "following the end of `The Hobbit'," right? Otherwise
could be interpreted as ANYTHING not in "The Hobbit," including all
prior ages.

Following are my specific comments/suggestions, inserted in caps in
your copy:

A. Which of the following TIME PERIODS covers the events around which
your story is constructed?

1. The Hobbit (including any material from "Unfinished Tales" or HoME
with a bearing on the events of "The Hobbit")

2. The Lord of the Rings (up through Frodo's departure from
Middle-earth; including any material from "Unfinished Tales" or HoME
with a bearing on the events of LOTR)

3. The Silmarillion (including any material from "Unfinished Tales" or
HoME with a bearing on the events of "The Silmarillion")

4. FOURTH AGE (events after Frodo's departure from Middle-earth)

5. PRE-QUEST (EVENTS FALLING BETWEEN THE END OF "THE HOBBIT" AND THE
BEGINNING OF "THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING," AND ANY RELATED MATERIAL
from "Unfinished Tales" or HoME)

6. My story is based on material in "Unfinished Tales" or HoME that
does not fall into any of the above categories. [THIS MAY CONFUSE
SOME PEOPLE AND DOES NOT SEEM STRICTLY TIME PERIOD-RELATED; SUGGEST
REPLACING WITH "OTHER (SPECIFY)"]

7. [THIS SHOULD BE MOVED TO GENRE]
My story is based on a filmed version of "The Hobbit" or "Lord of
the Rings" (i.e., Peter Jackson's films, Bakshi's "Lord of the Rings"
cartoon, Rankin-Bass's "Return of the King" or "The Hobbit" cartoons)

Under subcategories, do you mean 100 or fewer words per question, or
total? As a volunteer categorizer, the prospect of up to 100 words
per question makes me cringe…that's a lot of verbiage for
categorizers to wade through! I'd much rather see this stuff in drop-
down boxes, if it can be a webform.

Oh, and if we're going to ask for poetry forms, how about including
limericks?

Kathy (Inkling)




--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "dwimmer_laik" <dwimmer_laik@y...>
wrote:

>
> Proposed categorization form
>
> *************
>
> MEFA entries have story forms giving basic information about the
> entry, and these entries are organized by a main category and
> (sometimes) a subcategory. This form will help determine which
> category and subcategory your entry will compete in, and allow us to
> complete the story form as accurately as possible.
>
> STORY FORM: Please read *all* instructions, and complete all fields

to

> the extent required.
>
> BASICS
>
> Title: [nominator provided]
> Author: [nominator provided]
> Summary: [Provided by nominator if available on a website; if not
> available, author should supply]
> Rating (if incorrect, please change): [already provided]
> Warnings (choose all that apply):
> Extreme violence
> Graphic depictions of sex
> Mature themes
> Non-canonical romance: m/f
> Non-canonical romance: m/m or f/f
> Non-canonical romance: multiple partners
> Incestuous attraction
> None
> URL (if other site preferred, please replace): [provided by

nominator]

>
> Please choose *one* and *only one* from each of the following two

lists:

>
> My story is:
> 1. Fiction
> 2. Non-fiction (if non-fiction, please skip to number 6 in
> "Subcategories")
>
>
> My story is best described as a...
>
> 1. Drabble (100 words exactly, plus 15 for title)
> 2. Drabble cycle (a series of individual drabbles connected by a

theme)

> 3. Ficlet (101 up to, but not including, 500 words)
> 4. Short Story (500-10,000 words)
> 5. Novella (10,001-50,000 words)
> 6. Novel (>50,000 words)
> 7. Poem (any length)
>
>
> MAIN CATEGORIES
>
> Please choose *one* and *only one* from *each* of the following

lists.

> Your responses will help us to try to place your story into a main
> catagory, subject to main category viability rules.
>
> A. Which of the following covers the events around which your story

is

> constructed?
>
> 1. The Hobbit (including any material from "Unfinished Tales" or

HoME

> with a bearing on the events of"The Hobbit")
>
> 2. The Lord of the Rings (up through Frodo's departure from
> Middle-earth; including any material from "Unfinished Tales" or HoME
> with a bearing on the events of LOTR)
>
> 3. The Silmarillion (including any material from "Unfinished Tales"

or

> HoME with a bearing on the events of "The Silmarillion")
>
> 4. My story covers events after Frodo's departure from Middle-earth
>
> 5. My story covers events prior to the beginning of "The Fellowship

of

> the Ring", but not included in "The Hobbit" or in any material from
> "Unfinished Tales" or HoME.
>
> 6. My story is based on material in "Unfinished Tales" or HoME that
> does not fall into any of the above categories
>
> 7. My story is based on a filmed version of "The Hobbit" or "Lord of
> the Rings" (i.e., Peter Jackson's films, Bakshi's "Lord of the

Rings"

> cartoon, Rankin-Bass's "Return of the King" or "The Hobbit"

cartoons)

>
>
> B. Which of these genres best describes your story?
>
> 1. Action/Adventure
> 2. Alternate Universe
> 3. Crossover
> 4. Drama (includes Angst)
> 5. Horror
> 6. Humor
> 7. Mystery
> 8. Romance
>
> C. Which of the following types of characters would you say is the
> primary focus of your story?
>
> 1. Dwarves
> 2. Elves
> 3. Ents
> 4. Hobbits
> 5. Men
> 6. Valar/Ainur
> 7. Villains
> 8. Other
> 9. Story specifically interested in depicting and examining
> interspecies interactions
>
>
> D. Rank the categories you chose above, beginning with whatever one
> seems most suitable for your story to compete in, and ending on the
> catagory choice that seems least suitable.
>
>
>
> SUBCATEGORIES
>
> Please fill in, in *one hundred or fewer words*, the following
> information. Your responses will help MEFA categorizers create
> subcategories, subject to subcategory viability rules.
>
> 1. Where does your story primarily take place, or about which place
> does your story revolve (e.g., Gondolin, Houses of Healing,

Beleriand,

> Rohan, The Angle, The Shire, Angband etc.)?
>
>
> 2. Who are your *main* characters, in order of priority?
>
>
> 3. Which time periods does the story primarily take place in/focus

on

> (e.g., First Age, Time of Trees, Fourth Age, etc.)?
>
>
> 4. If your story is based on filmed versions of Tolkien's work,

which

> film/set of films is it based on?
>
> 5. Is there a major canonical event around which your story revolves
> (e.g., Akallabeth, destruction of Sirion, making of Khazad-dûm,

Battle

> of Unnumbered Tears, etc.)?
>
> 6. If your story is a poem, what is its form (e.g., haiku, tanka,
> terzanelle, sonnet, free verse etc.)?
>
>
> 7. If your story is non-fiction, what is its main topic?
>
>
>
>
> ***************
>
> Explanation/comments
>
> I tried to create an e-mail form that could be sent to authors whose
> work had been nominated. I tried to incorporate *some* of RSFs
> suggestions in a manner that seemed workable to me, and to break up
> the form into manageable chunks. It is roughly 3 pages long, so

think

> how one might feel if one got even one of these to fill out.
>
> The main goal is to break up categorization into conceptually
> manageable chunks, for both the author and the categorizers and so
> avoid overload and/or confusion. After that, the aim is to try to

make

> the form something that can be filled out relatively quickly and

with

> a minimum of thought.
>
> So we start with BASICS, the main story form, minus category

fields,

> with indications of what the author should fill in for us. The two
> lists under BASICS are meant to help us create filters, but also to
> identify immediately two forms that may require special treatment

(we

> can immediately move non-fiction stories to their own category; we
> could, if we wished, have poetry easily marked and filterable).
>
> "That Which Must Be Identified" has been moved to warnings; I think
> this would work since the major possibilities would be covered.
> Graphic (but not NC-17 graphic) sex between canonical characters is
> easily indicated, as is extreme violence (of whatever type);
> non-canonical romances of both het and slash varieties are easily
> indicated but without necessarily requiring the user either to
> identify the characters involved in the relationship, if that
> revelation is part of the story's unfolding, or requiring the author
> to use the word "slash". It simplifies the form and makes it easy

for

> readers concerned about such things to find out whether they want to
> read the story.
>
>
> The CATEGORIES section is hopefully straightforward, and the easiest
> part to fill out, consisting as it does of only three lists and

check

> boxes, and one request to order one's choices according to

preference.

>
>
> The SUBCATEGORIES section is question based, but limited to a

certain

> number of words to keep things manageable. Some examples are

included

> to give the author some guidance without presenting an exhaustive

(or

> seemingly exhaustsive... and lengthy) list. The aim is to elicit
> specific information (in short form) from the author that might

serve

> to create categories or more carefully place the author's entry for
> the convenience of categorizers, who may see themes developing that
> could be used as subcategories across multiple author response

forms.

> This way, there's no need for categorizers to deal with the summary,
> which in some cases is delibertely misleading for good reason.
>
> What do you think? Would this work as a form? Could it (or something
> like it) be turned into a webform, thus reducing the data entry end

of

> things for categorizers and admins? (That might also let us force
> authors to log into the site at least once, and so make sure that
> should a time come when they decide they want to participate, they
> know already what their screennames and passwords are? This would
> eliminate the problem of people contacting admins late in the game

and

> being unsure whether they are even registered at the site.) Are

there

> questions or categories missing? Are the redundancies likely to be
> off-putting to authors?
>
> Dwim
>

Hi Kathy,

> Hi Dwim,
>
> I have a question and some suggestions regarding your proposed form.
>
> The question: Does this form assume we are retaining the present
> three category divisions of Books/Time, Genres, and Races/Places
> (even if the names change somewhat)?

Yes. The problem with Books/Times, however, (and one I didn't try to
solve last night) is that although these two things are related to
each other, that relation is not always clear-cut, thanks to the
nature of Tolkien's corpus. There are events and stories in HoME that
most easily fit into the timeline of the Silm, but which are not, in
fact, integrated with the stories in the Silm, and which never appear
anywhere else (I think of Tevilo the prince of cats that Werecat wrote
about). Same for "Unfinished Tales". And then there are some events,
like Isildur's tale, whose narration is split between books
(Silmarillion and the Appendices of LOTR).

To the extent that we want to retain a reference to the books, we are
going to have a messy and confusing chronology if we approach it from
the perspective of the books mapping out a path in time. There will be
parallel universes and overlaps among books that cause problems.

Now, if we wanted to simply get rid of the book reference entirely, we
could just designate acknowledged ages of M-e. That'd be relatively
straightforward, so perhaps it's worth doing.

> 7. [THIS SHOULD BE MOVED TO GENRE]
> My story is based on a filmed version of "The Hobbit" or "Lord of
> the Rings" (i.e., Peter Jackson's films, Bakshi's "Lord of the Rings"
> cartoon, Rankin-Bass's "Return of the King" or "The Hobbit" cartoons)

I've always been vaguely unhappy with movieverse being a genre. It
isn't. It's classified by its source material, not by a genre proper
(there can be movieverse drama, movieverse romance, movieverse angst,
movieverse mystery, etc., etc.).

Insofar as "Books/Times" retains a reference to classification by
source material in some (not terribly clear) way, I think it is more
appropriate to identify movieverse fics here, rather than as a genre,
and then allow the author to choose a genre in addition to a source,
as it were. At worst, it'd easily let us turn the choices ticked off
under "MAIN CATEGORY: GENRE" into subcategories for movieverse fics.
Since movieverse fics are automatically isolated, there's no danger of
a mirror c/s coming up in, say, drama (e.g., Drama: movieverse just
isn't an option).

If we flattened "Books/Times" into just "Times", we could have a
separate list for source material, in which "movies" could be
included. What I want to avoid, though, is multiplying lists
unnecessarily. This is, after all, 3 pages long already...

> Under subcategories, do you mean 100 or fewer words per question, or
> total? As a volunteer categorizer, the prospect of up to 100 words
> per question makes me cringe…that's a lot of verbiage for
> categorizers to wade through! I'd much rather see this stuff in drop-
> down boxes, if it can be a webform.

Good point. I had meant per question, but given the phrasing of the
questions, the person should be able to answer in far less space than
that.

However, regarding the tick boxes suggestion, I think they are not the
most appropriate tool for getting suggestions for subcategories.
Subcats, unlike main cats, are essentially fluid and could differ
every year depending upon what people decide to input. Trying to
mechanize the subcat process beyond controlling the questions at this
stage is, I think, asking for trouble. Giving a few key examples for
each question, and a limited space to write in, combined with
questions that encourage bullet point answers instead of full
sentences, is a better way to go, I think.

If this were to become a webform, I'd say just make sure the write-in
box only accepts, say, a single line of characters and no more.

If this were an e-mail, I'd say redo the limit and say something like
"Please list no more than four responses to each question".

> Oh, and if we're going to ask for poetry forms, how about including
> limericks?

Limericks are fine. The point is that the list is clearly not
exhaustive, but simply gives a range of examples. It's just a guide.
This is why I don't want drop-down boxes--I don't want to have to
think of every poetical form possible in the English language, or any
other language (including Sindarin--that's what a tanka is, a Sindarin
form) and then get complaints from authors that their form wasn't
included.

Make the authors input that data, and then let us survey it once they
have. That, to me, seems like the most reasonable and appropriate way
of dealing with generating subcats. Ticky boxes and drop-downs are
nice, but they don't fit every problem, and I think this is one of
those problems that calls for a more lo-tech solution.

Dwim

Hey all,

I just caught up with the reading.

I can't get to the MEFA2005 site (or the database), so I can't do any
fancy statistics right now. I haven't copied the database to my local
machine, so I can't do it there either. I'll do that sometime.

First, I basically like the form, and it can definitely be done with
lots of drop-down menus/checkboxes. I'd rather see most of the data be
collected via drop-downs or checkboxes, as that way, filters will work,
while textboxes are harder to filter on. Dropdowns are more work for
me, though, in some ways. Once I do one, though, the others should be
much easier, and I already have some to go by, so I should be OK.

Dwim, If we do decide to have lists, would it be OK if the authors were
able to add directly to (some of) the lists when their selection wasn't
there? We do want this to be pretty easy for the authors.

I was thinking that for major and minor canon characters such a list
would be good. Maybe authors could add canon characters to the list,
like nominators can add authors. The same could go for settings. I
think I can make it so you don't even have to go to another form; just
type the name(s) in an 'other' text box, and it'll add it (them) to the
list. If there were any duplicates, I could make an admin page to
'merge duplicate canon characters.' I need to do that for duplicate
authors, as is, so I'll have to think through the basic merging process
anyway.

If we have a list like that, then I can do a filter, and you don't have
to worry about getting funky search results, like 'same' when you're
searching for 'Sam.'

I have figured out a way to send the author a URL that will take them
to the site, automatically log them in (user/pass is in the URL, so
they shouldn't share it, though), and then re-direct them to the
editStory page for their story, so the nomination email can be much
shorter. Something like:

Congrats, your story has been nominated for the 2006 MEFAwards. MEFAs
are ... (short paragraph about MEFAs and link to MEFA website).

To complete the nomination, though, we need more information about your
story (length, genre, characters, etc.). This information must be
entered by April 30, 2006, or your story will be withdrawn from the
competition.

Please visit the MEFA2006 website and complete the nomination form (it
should take about 3-5 minutes).

http://www.mefawards.org/2006/index.php?
page=login&user=aaa&pass=bbb&editStory=123

This URL will automatically log you in unless/until you change your
default password (so don't share the URL above). Once you are logged
in, you can visit the other MEFA2006 pages (list of other nominated
stories, personal info, password, etc.).

FYI, your username is greatAuthor and you password is author1234567.
Both of these can be changed.

I am your Author Liaison. If you have any questions about the
nomination process that are not answered in the Author FAQ
(http....page=authorFAQ), please feel free to contact me.

If you would rather not participate in the 2006 MEFAwards, you may
either go to the above form and withdraw your story or you may send me
a message, and I will withdraw the nomination. Due to the vagaries of
email, it is impossible for me to know if you got this email. As such,
if I do not hear from you soon, I will try to contact you again. If you
need more than a week to complete the form due to real life issues, a
quick reply would help me know that this email didn't get caught by a
spam filter.

Thank you,
Your Great Author Liaison, Bunny


Goes off to watch the todo list grow....

A.

> Dwim, If we do decide to have lists, would it be OK if the authors

were

> able to add directly to (some of) the lists when their selection

wasn't

> there? We do want this to be pretty easy for the authors.

For subcats, if it can be done and is easier to code, then yes,
drop-downs with "add me" options work for me. For main cats, however,
I'd say no. The main categories I think need to be stable (or at
least, not open to change save in post-mortem processes), governed
only by whether or not enough stories are submitted to satisfy the 2x5
rule. Otherwise, we risk getting too many creative suggestions which
makes it harder to categorize stories in those main categories.

Dwim

On Nov 18, 2005, at 9:48 PM, dwimmer_laik wrote:

>
>> Dwim, If we do decide to have lists, would it be OK if the authors
>> were
>> able to add directly to (some of) the lists when their selection
>> wasn't
>> there? We do want this to be pretty easy for the authors.
>
> For subcats, if it can be done and is easier to code, then yes,
> drop-downs with "add me" options work for me. For main cats, however,
> I'd say no. The main categories I think need to be stable (or at
> least, not open to change save in post-mortem processes), governed
> only by whether or not enough stories are submitted to satisfy the 2x5
> rule. Otherwise, we risk getting too many creative suggestions which
> makes it harder to categorize stories in those main categories.

I was actually thinking of the more 'informational' questions, like
characters, location, etc., that could be useful to categorizers, and
also for readers. I agree that main categories are too important for
on-the-fly creativity.

This is what RabidSamFan's form suggestion brings to mind:

If you ask for genre, source material (books), time, races, places for
choosing a primary categorization, and main characters, romantic
interests, etc. for additional information, then when you're assigning
subcategories, you just look at the selections from all these lists,
combined with the summaries and possible subcategories entries and look
for common themes.

I liked the idea of prioritizing the informational questions, i.e., "I
think of my story more as a story about
(Race/Place/Source/Time/Genre)." If she chose 'Race,' and chose "Men"
for her 'Races' option, you would then put her story in Races/Places:
Men. (She would also order the other four in terms of priority.)

This way, though, you also find out that her story happens in Mordor,
is set during the First Ring War, comes from a Silmarillion source, and
is a horror story, and you can use all that information, plus the
character/romance/length/type/warnings/etc. to put it in a good
category.

For the 5 primary categorization options, there should be an 'other'
option, but these entries should not be added to the lists when entered
by the author. If enough demand for a new one is present, it can be
added to the list, and the liaisons can change 'other' to the new
entry.

For the other lists, though (romantic pairings, etc.), let the author
add new stuff, and we'll just have to merge them if you get Sam/Rosie,
Samwise Gamgee/Rosie Cotton, and Rosie/Sam as entries.

By the way, I'm not suggesting that there should be 5 overarching
categories, but I think that the questions definitely need to be broken
down that way. It'll be easier to ask the questions and for the authors
to answer them, and you'll have the information to help in proper
categorization/subcategorization.

For my example above, if the author had chosen Places as her primary,
it would place the story in Races/Places: Mordor. If there's not enough
to make a Races/Places: Mordor category, then you'd need to put it in
Books/Time: Silmarillion, which was her second choice, by the way.

I guess I'm suggesting Source/Time to replace Books/Time, here. It
makes sense to me from what I've read here about movieverse, but I'm
not completely sure. I think the list of sources is small enough.

Anthony

I really like this. A few nit-picks.

Dwim, are you keeping up with these proposed changes, btw? Or is
someone else? I haven't been, and I think we'll need a "final version"
eventually.

On 17 Nov 2005, at 22:50, dwimmer_laik wrote:

> Title: [nominator provided]
> Author: [nominator provided]
> Summary: [Provided by nominator if available on a website; if not
> available, author should supply]

I know there were a few summaries that I've reworked for the awards
because they referenced an archive-specific challenge or something like
that, and I'd like to let the author have 100% complete control over
this, and not feel like they have to correct someone to do this.

> Rating (if incorrect, please change): [already provided]

With all the different archives' ratings out there, I think this should
be left up to the author, too.

> Warnings (choose all that apply):
>       Extreme violence
>       Graphic depictions of sex
>       Mature themes
>       Non-canonical romance: m/f
>       Non-canonical romance: m/m or f/f
>         Non-canonical romance: multiple partners
>         Incestuous attraction
>       None

I'd rather not break romantic content into slash and het. Why don't we
replace those four options with a "Romantic Content" warning, and have
a separate field for romantic partner(s) like we did this year?

Also, I'm tempted to add the following:

Movieverse
Alternate Universe
Silmarillion Knowledge Helpful

I'm honestly not sure about this; this may be confusing. None of these
are "warnings" in the same sense, but they are things that people might
like to be aware of before reading.

> URL (if other site preferred, please replace): [provided by nominator]
>
> Please choose *one* and *only one* from each of the following two
> lists:
>
> My story is:
> 1. Fiction
> 2. Non-fiction (if non-fiction, please skip to number 6 in
> "Subcategories")

>
> My story is best described as a...
>
> 1. Drabble (100 words exactly, plus 15 for title)
> 2. Drabble cycle (a series of individual drabbles connected by a
> theme)
> 3. Ficlet (101 up to, but not including, 500 words)
> 4. Short Story (500-10,000 words)
> 5. Novella (10,001-50,000 words)
> 6. Novel (>50,000 words)
> 7. Poem (any length)
>

Good on all counts.

> MAIN CATEGORIES
>
> Please choose *one* and *only one* from *each* of the following lists.
> Your responses will help us to try to place your story into a main
> catagory, subject to main category viability rules.
>
> A. Which of the following covers the events around which your story is
> constructed?
>
> 1. The Hobbit (including any material from "Unfinished Tales" or HoME
> with a bearing on the events of"The Hobbit")
>
> 2. The Lord of the Rings (up through Frodo's departure from
> Middle-earth; including any material from "Unfinished Tales" or HoME
> with a bearing on the events of LOTR)
>
> 3. The Silmarillion (including any material from "Unfinished Tales" or
> HoME with a bearing on the events of "The Silmarillion")
>
> 4. My story covers events after Frodo's departure from Middle-earth
>
> 5. My story covers events prior to the beginning of "The Fellowship of
> the Ring", but not included in "The Hobbit" or in any material from
> "Unfinished Tales" or HoME.
>
> 6. My story is based on material in "Unfinished Tales" or HoME that
> does not fall into any of the above categories
>
> 7. My story is based on a filmed version of "The Hobbit" or "Lord of
> the Rings" (i.e., Peter Jackson's films, Bakshi's "Lord of the Rings"
> cartoon, Rankin-Bass's "Return of the King" or "The Hobbit" cartoons)
>

I think this might work better if we broke it down based on the time
period rather than source material? Maybe two questions:

A. Which of these source materials is your piece based on?

1. The writings of J.R.R. Tolkien.
2. Some adaptation of Tolkien's work (such as Peter Jackson's films)

B. Which of these time periods is your story based in?

1. Before the end of the First Age - anything before the overthrow of
Morgoth.
2. The Second Age - anything between the overthrow of Morgoth and the
Last Alliance.
3. The early Third Age - anything during the Third Age before the quest
for Erebor.
4. Quest for Eregbor - anything set around the events of _The Hobbit_,
or about the characters and peoples of that book before or after the
Quest for Erebor.
5. Pre-Quest - Stories about the characters of The Lord of the Rings
set before the War of the Ring.
6. War of the Ring - Stories about the events of _The Lord of the
Rings_, including the aftermath (before the Ringbearers sailed West)
7. Fourth Age and Beyond - Stories about the events after the sailing
of the Ring Bearers, or crossovers between Middle-earth and the modern
world.

> B. Which of these genres best describes your story?
>
> 1. Action/Adventure
> 2. Alternate Universe
> 3. Crossover
> 4. Drama (includes Angst)
> 5. Horror
> 6. Humor
> 7. Mystery
> 8. Romance
>
> C. Which of the following types of characters would you say is the
> primary focus of your story?
>
> 1. Dwarves
> 2. Elves
> 3. Ents
> 4. Hobbits
> 5. Men
> 6. Valar/Ainur
> 7. Villains
> 8. Other
> 9. Story specifically interested in depicting and examining
> interspecies interactions
>

Both of these are good.

>
> D. Rank the categories you chose above, beginning with whatever one
> seems most suitable for your story to compete in, and ending on the
> catagory choice that seems least suitable.
>

I know what you're saying here, but if I didn't, this could be a little
unclear. How about something like:

D. Rank These Categories

The above information will be used to place your story into categories.
Would you like for your piece to compete in categories organised around
genre, time period, or races? We will make every effort to place your
story in your first choice category, but we may have to put it in your
second or third choice. (See [Categories FAQ] for more information on
how nominated pieces are placed into categories.)

> SUBCATEGORIES
>
> Please fill in, in *one hundred or fewer words*, the following
> information. Your responses will help MEFA categorizers create
> subcategories, subject to subcategory viability rules.
>
> 1. Where does your story primarily take place, or about which place
> does your story revolve (e.g., Gondolin, Houses of Healing, Beleriand,
> Rohan, The Angle, The Shire, Angband etc.)?
>
>
> 2. Who are your *main* characters, in order of priority?
>
>
> 3. Which time periods does the story primarily take place in/focus on
> (e.g., First Age, Time of Trees, Fourth Age, etc.)?
>

I think this might work better if we develop lists for people to choose
from, rather than having them describe it in a certain number of words.
This would make it possible to filter stories by one of these things
(if we want to go in that direction - I'll have to pound out the
technical details with Anthony later).
>
> 4. If your story is based on filmed versions of Tolkien's work, which
> film/set of films is it based on?
>

Perhaps I'm being naive here, but is this one necessary? I can't think
of a single story I've come across that is based on an adaptation other
than Jackson's.

<snip>
> Explanation/comments
>
> I tried to create an e-mail form that could be sent to authors whose
> work had been nominated. I tried to incorporate *some* of RSFs
> suggestions in a manner that seemed workable to me, and to break up
> the form into manageable chunks. It is roughly 3 pages long, so think
> how one might feel if one got even one of these to fill out.
>

It is long, but it's essentially bullets and easy-to-digest chunks. I
think this will be less overwhelming than the series of paragraphs we
had this year.

If this is seen as long, we might have this as an online form that the
author has to log in and complete? And the author is sent a short email
(maybe 3-5 pagaraphs) explaining how to do this?

> The CATEGORIES section is hopefully straightforward, and the easiest
> part to fill out, consisting as it does of only three lists and check
> boxes, and one request to order one's choices according to preference.
>

Personally I thought this was a *big* improvement over this year's
choice of first, second, and third choice. The least intuitive part is
the ranking, but that's always going to be a tricky area.

> What do you think? Would this work as a form?

I like it. One thing we might consider is having this in two parts. One
would be labelled as what the nominators need to figure out. Then a
dividing line, and insturctions for the nominator to leave the rest of
the information blank unless they are self-nominating. Then when the
author logs in, they have the ability to edit the information in the
nominators' section and complete the authors' section.

Marta

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "dwimmer_laik" <dwimmer_laik@y...>
wrote:

>
> > The question: Does this form assume we are retaining the present
> > three category divisions of Books/Time, Genres, and Races/Places
> > (even if the names change somewhat)?
>
> Yes. The problem with Books/Times, however, (and one I didn't try to
> solve last night) is that although these two things are related to
> each other, that relation is not always clear-cut, thanks to the
> nature of Tolkien's corpus. There are events and stories in HoME
> that most easily fit into the timeline of the Silm, but which are
> not, in fact, integrated with the stories in the Silm, and which
> never appear anywhere else (I think of Tevilo the prince of cats
> that Werecat wrote about). Same for "Unfinished Tales". And then
> there are some events, like Isildur's tale, whose narration is
> split between books (Silmarillion and the Appendices of LOTR).
> <snip>
> Now, if we wanted to simply get rid of the book reference entirely,
> we could just designate acknowledged ages of M-e. That'd be
> relatively straightforward, so perhaps it's worth doing.

Yes, I think this might be best. Rather than Books/Time, the division
becomes simply "Time."

>
> > 7. [THIS SHOULD BE MOVED TO GENRE]
> > My story is based on a filmed version of "The Hobbit" or "Lord of
> > the Rings" (i.e., Peter Jackson's films, Bakshi's "Lord of the
> > Rings" cartoon, Rankin-Bass's "Return of the King" or "The
> > Hobbit" cartoons)
>
> I've always been vaguely unhappy with movieverse being a genre. It
> isn't. It's classified by its source material, not by a genre proper
> (there can be movieverse drama, movieverse romance, movieverse
> angst, movieverse mystery, etc., etc.).
> <snip>
> If we flattened "Books/Times" into just "Times", we could have a
> separate list for source material, in which "movies" could be
> included. What I want to avoid, though, is multiplying lists
> unnecessarily. This is, after all, 3 pages long already...

Well, I don't think it needs to be a big list...just, as Marta
suggests in her response to your post, two choices: book verse or
movie verse. Source might then be considered just one more piece of
information we collect that informs the subcategorization process,
like story form and length.

Kathy (Inkling)

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Holder <aaholder@s...> wrote:

> <snip>
> Your Great Author Liaison, Bunny
>
> Goes off to watch the todo list grow....

LOL!! You deserve another cookie for that, Anthony! (Have any left,
Sulriel?)

> > > 7. [THIS SHOULD BE MOVED TO GENRE]
> > > My story is based on a filmed version of "The Hobbit" or "Lord of
> > > the Rings" (i.e., Peter Jackson's films, Bakshi's "Lord of the
> > > Rings" cartoon, Rankin-Bass's "Return of the King" or "The
> > > Hobbit" cartoons)
> >
> > I've always been vaguely unhappy with movieverse being a genre. It
> > isn't. It's classified by its source material, not by a genre proper
> > (there can be movieverse drama, movieverse romance, movieverse
> > angst, movieverse mystery, etc., etc.).
> > <snip>
> > If we flattened "Books/Times" into just "Times", we could have a
> > separate list for source material, in which "movies" could be
> > included. What I want to avoid, though, is multiplying lists
> > unnecessarily. This is, after all, 3 pages long already...
>
> Well, I don't think it needs to be a big list...just, as Marta
> suggests in her response to your post, two choices: book verse or
> movie verse.  Source might then be considered just one more piece of
> information we collect that informs the subcategorization process,
> like story form and length.
>

This is one of the very few things that I was semi-uncomfortable with
about the form. This year movieverse was its own category, and I liked
that. I wanted it to be in Books/Time instead of Genres for the reason
Dwim stated above, but I think that as a category it made a lot of
sense. I'd like to keep it.

I'm not sure it's clear from the form I proposed last night. I see my
"source" and "time" questions as being related. If an author chooses
"time period" as his first choice for categories and "movies" as its
source, then the first choice category would be "movieverse"; otherwise
if the author chose "books" as its source the first choice category
would be the time period. I'm not sure if that's even codable, though,
and it's probably a bit confusing. Maybe we could edit the list of time
periods to include two War of the Ring entries?

War of the Ring (bookverse): Stories set around the events of the War
of the Ring (and its aftermath before the Ring Bearers sail west), as
told in JRR Tolkien's books.
War of the Ring (movieverse): Stories set around the events of the War
of the Ring (and its aftermath before the Ring Bearers sail west), as
told in an adaptation of JRR Tolkien's books such as Peter Jackson's
films.

Or something like that.

Marta

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, Marta Layton <melayton@g...> wrote:

>
> I really like this. A few nit-picks.
>
> Dwim, are you keeping up with these proposed changes, btw? Or is
> someone else? I haven't been, and I think we'll need a "final version"
> eventually.

I've been keeping track, making a few changes as we go.

>
> I know there were a few summaries that I've reworked for the awards
> because they referenced an archive-specific challenge or something like
> that, and I'd like to let the author have 100% complete control over
> this, and not feel like they have to correct someone to do this.

That seems fine.

> > Rating (if incorrect, please change): [already provided]
>
> With all the different archives' ratings out there, I think this should
> be left up to the author, too.

I do think, however, it'd be good to have a standard drop-down list.
The awards don't accept NC-17 stories, so that needs to be clear. If
this were a webform, I'd say let's use the standard film ratings and
give them no choice about it. If it's a write-in e-mail or textbox
form, we need to keep an eye out for NC-17, and make sure we tell
authors what rating system we are using and ask them to please
translate their site's rating system into it.

>
> > Warnings (choose all that apply):
> > Extreme violence
> > Graphic depictions of sex
> > Mature themes
> > Non-canonical romance: m/f
> > Non-canonical romance: m/m or f/f
> > Non-canonical romance: multiple partners
> > Incestuous attraction
> > None
>
> I'd rather not break romantic content into slash and het. Why don't we
> replace those four options with a "Romantic Content" warning, and have
> a separate field for romantic partner(s) like we did this year?

Because "Romantic content" is not what people want to be warned about,
frankly. They want to know whether there will be slash, multiple
pairings, or non-canonical het sex/romance. If the author has the
romantic partners' names and relationship in the summary, people will
notice that. If not, there's probably a reason, but the only thing the
author would have to warn for would be explicitness or the above three
kinds of sexual/romantic relationships.

I suppose since the code is already set up to handle a romantic
partners textbox, so long as it's made clear what the options are (you
can put the partners' names in, separate by slashes, you can use the
words 'het' or 'slash', f/f, m/m, or some other combination of those
letters), that'd work for me. I just think more people will look to
the warnings than to that other field--fandom doesn't operate in a
neutral mode when it comes to sex and romance, it operates on an alert
system.

For the moment, though, I've left this bit alone for further
discussion, save for one change: non-->extra. Non-canonical seems to
me too likely to be read as "anti-canon" or "violating canon by
directly contradicting it" instead of simply "outside canon", which
latter is both broader in meaning, but also I think better captures
the sense of what a lot of slash and OFC/canon writers are trying to
achieve.

> Also, I'm tempted to add the following:
>
> Movieverse
> Alternate Universe
> Silmarillion Knowledge Helpful
>
> I'm honestly not sure about this; this may be confusing. None of these
> are "warnings" in the same sense, but they are things that people might
> like to be aware of before reading.

I wouldn't do it. Movieverse and Alternate Universe already have their
own categories and are identified a little later on the form.
Silmarillion also has its own category, and I firmly believe in the
rightness of footnotes for things that require you to know about some
obscure reference to volume 3 of HoME, or the like. I think it would
complicate things, and it also assumes that Silm is the only thing
people wouldn't know about. That may not be a wrong assumption in
general, but there will always be those who are more Silm and HoME
savvy than "The Hobbit" or LOTR savvy.

> I think this might work better if we broke it down based on the time
> period rather than source material?

I like your timeline break-up, so I've adopted it for version 2.1, and
I've added the source material question to the BASICS section.

> I think this might work better if we develop lists for people to choose
> from, rather than having them describe it in a certain number of words.
> This would make it possible to filter stories by one of these things
> (if we want to go in that direction - I'll have to pound out the
> technical details with Anthony later).

I'm open to that, as noted in a previous e-mail. I'm just going on the
assumption right now that we should develop the form first as if it
had to be filled in manually. If it gets coded, then we can see how
that goes and use the manual version as a guide to what a webform
would need to be able to handle.

> >
> > 4. If your story is based on filmed versions of Tolkien's work, which
> > film/set of films is it based on?
> >
>
> Perhaps I'm being naive here, but is this one necessary? I can't think
> of a single story I've come across that is based on an adaptation other
> than Jackson's.

This is true, I just do it for completeness and in case anyone ever
*does* submit something based on a different film.

<snip>

>
> If this is seen as long, we might have this as an online form that the
> author has to log in and complete? And the author is sent a short email
> (maybe 3-5 pagaraphs) explaining how to do this?

I'd break it up into:

Dear [author name],

Congratulations! Your story, [title], has been nominated for the
MEFAs. We hope you'll permit your story to compete, and join in the
voting yourself--it's been a fun and rewarding experience for us, and
we hope it will be for you, too.

But first, we need you to complete the story form, attached below/at
this website [website bit would be modified from Anthony's
suggestion]. Basically, the form is in three parts, and you will need
to fill out/check off a few things according to the instructions. It
may seem lengthy, but it takes about three minutes. Here's the
break-down of the form:


BASICS

This is the story form readers will be seeing. Summary, kind of entry,
fiction/non-fiction, bookverse or movieverse, rating and any warnings
you feel are necessary. Standard information you'd give at most fanfic
sites.


MAIN CATEGORIES

This section consists of a set of three short check-box lists that
will place your story in a main category, and a request that you rank
your preferences as to which categories you'd prefer your story to
compete in.

SUBCATEGORIES

A set of questions asking you, in as few words as possible, to
volunteer certain information about your story that will help
categorizers place it into a subcategory/A set of questions asking you
to supply certain information about your story through drop-down
lists. This information will help us to place your piece into
subcategories.

QUESTIONS?

Should you need assistance, I am [name], your author liaison. Please
contact me at [e-mail] with any questions or concerns. Or, if you do
not wish [title] to compete, please let me know so that we can delete
the entry form sooner rather than later.

Thank you and congratulations once more,

[author liaison]
MEFA staff

>
> > What do you think? Would this work as a form?
>
> I like it. One thing we might consider is having this in two parts. One
> would be labelled as what the nominators need to figure out. Then a
> dividing line, and insturctions for the nominator to leave the rest of
> the information blank unless they are self-nominating. Then when the
> author logs in, they have the ability to edit the information in the
> nominators' section and complete the authors' section.

I agree that the nominator form would be different, and if this became
a webform, we'd need to have an option for "Self-nomination" that
would shunt the nominator to the full form once s/he had input the
author, title, and URL required of all nominators.

Below is a revised version of the form. Again, I'm more or less going
with the assumption right now that we have a manual form, although at
some points, I've inserted alternate language that might fit a webform.


Dwim



STORY FORM: Please read *all* instructions, and complete all fields to
the extent required.

BASICS

Title: [already provided]
Author: [already provided]
Summary: [author provides]
Rating (we use the MPAA system, please translate if necessary): [MEFA
drop-down]
Warnings: (choose what applies)
Extreme violence
Explicit depictions of sex
Mature themes
Extra-canonical romance: m/f
Extra-canonical romance: m/m, f/f, slash
Extra-canonical romance: multiple partners
Incestuous attraction
None
URL (if not preferred site, please replace): [provided by nominator]

Please choose *one* and *only one* from each of the following three lists:

My story is:

1. Bookverse: based on the writings of J.R.R. Tolkien and/or drafts
made available by C. Tolkien
2. Filmverse: based on a film adaptation of "The Lord of the Rings" or
"The Hobbit"

My story is:

1. Fiction
2. Non-fiction (if non-fiction, please skip to number 8 in
"Subcategories")


My story is best described as a...

1. Drabble (100 words exactly, plus 15 for title)
2. Drabble cycle (a series of individual drabbles connected by some theme)
3. Ficlet (101 up to, but not including, 500 words)
4. Short Story (500-10,000 words)
5. Novella (10,001-50,000 words)
6. Novel (>50,000 words)
7. Poem (any length)


MAIN CATEGORIES

Please choose *one* and *only one* from each of the following lists.
Your responses will help us to try to place your story in a MEFA
category that is most appropriate.

A. Which of these time periods is your story based in?

1. Before the end of the First Age - anything before the overthrow of
Morgoth.

2. The Second Age - anything between the overthrow of Morgoth and the
Last Alliance.

3. The early Third Age - anything during the Third Age before the quest
for Erebor.

4. Quest for Eregbor - anything set around the events of _The Hobbit_,
or about the characters and peoples of that book before or after the
Quest for Erebor.

5. Pre-Quest - Stories about the characters of The Lord of the Rings
set before the War of the Ring.

6. War of the Ring - Stories about the events of _The Lord of the
Rings_, including the aftermath (before the Ringbearers sailed West)

7. Fourth Age and Beyond - Stories about the events after the sailing
of the Ring Bearers, or crossovers between Middle-earth and the modern
world.


B. Which of these genres best describes your story?

1. Action/Adventure
2. Alternate Universe
3. Crossover
4. Drama (includes Angst)
5. Horror
6. Humor
7. Mystery
8. Romance

C. Which of the following types of characters would you say is the
primary focus of your story?

1. Dwarves
2. Elves
3. Ents
4. Hobbits
5. Men
6. Valar/Ainur
7. Villains
8. Other
9. Story specifically interested in depicting and examining
interspecies interactions


D. Rank your category choices. In which of the above categories would
you *most prefer* your story to compete? Please list your first
category choice first, and your last category choice third (e.g., A,
C, B).



SUBCATEGORIES

Please fill the following information/[Please select the following
from the drop-down lists provided or, if necessary, input the required
information in the "Other" textbox.] Your responses will help MEFA
categorizers create subcategories, subject to subcategory viability
rules. [webform: If answering a question would serve as a spoiler to
your story, please check the box "Decline to answer."]

1. Where does your story primarily take place, or about which place
does your story revolve (e.g., Gondolin, Houses of Healing, Beleriand,
Rohan, The Angle, The Shire, Angband etc.)? Please limit yourself to
four or fewer main places.


2. Who are your *main* characters, in order of priority? (Acknowledged
groups such as "Fellowship", "Ringbearers", "Feanorians", etc., also
useful here.) Please limit yourself to four or fewer main
characters/groups of characters.


3. Which time periods does the story primarily take place in/focus on
(e.g., First Age, Time of Trees, Fourth Age, etc.)? Please limit
yourself to four or fewer times.


4. If your story is based on filmed versions of Tolkien's work, which
film/set of films is it based on?

5. Is there a major canonical event around which your story revolves
(e.g., Akallabeth, destruction of Sirion, making of Khazad-dûm, Battle
of Unnumbered Tears, etc.)? Please limit yourself to four or fewer events.

6. Is there a particular subgenre or form commonly used in fandom or
film/literature that you think is applicable to and a good description
of your story that isn't represented above (e.g., metafic, noir,
pastische, filk, etc.)?

7. If your story is a poem, what is its form (e.g., haiku, tanka,
terzanelle, sonnet, free verse etc.)?


8. If your story is non-fiction, what is its main topic?


9. If your story is non-fiction, is it an essay (offering
interpretation) or an article (research article meant to assist others
by gathering and presenting useful facts, but without offering an
interpretation)?


ATTENTION, MEFA CATEGORIZERS!

Have any of the questions in the MAIN CATEGORIES or SUBCATEGORIES
sections required you to reveal information that would effectively
serve as a spoiler for your story, and which you would prefer not to
have considered when categories and subcategories are formed? Please
indicate this by writing, for example, SUBCATEGORIES, #2.

[webform version: see revised instructions above]

Hi Anthony,

I agree with most of what you said. But I do have a question on one
point.

> I was thinking that for major and minor canon characters such a list 
> would be good. Maybe authors could add canon characters to the list, 
> like nominators can add authors. The same could go for settings. I 
> think I can make it so you don't even have to go to another form;
> just 
> type the name(s) in an 'other' text box, and it'll add it (them) to
> the 
> list. If there were any duplicates, I could make an admin page to 
> 'merge duplicate canon characters.' I need to do that for duplicate 
> authors, as is, so I'll have to think through the basic merging
> process 
> anyway.
>

I like this in principle, but I'm concerned that a lot of characters
have multiple names -- and we might get some duplicate entries, for
example, Grima and Wormtongue. It's not horribly likely but if this
happens would it be possible to merge two names describing the same
character into one label?

Let's say three stories have been nominated with Wormtongue listed as a
character, but none listing "Grima". So "Wormtongue" is on the list but
"Grima" isn't. I add a character and list Grima as a major character in
my work, and two weeks later someone is browsing the list of characters
and notices we have different names of the same character listed as two
separate characters. What I'd love to see happen is we can move the one
story from Grima to Wormtongue and delete the character "Grima". How
much work would a situation like that be?

Marta

On Nov 19, 2005, at 1:38 AM, Marta Layton wrote:

> I like it. One thing we might consider is having this in two parts. One
> would be labelled as what the nominators need to figure out. Then a
> dividing line, and insturctions for the nominator to leave the rest of
> the information blank unless they are self-nominating. Then when the
> author logs in, they have the ability to edit the information in the
> nominators' section and complete the authors' section.

Once I get this done, I could pretty easily have an if-then, and have
separate links to 'Nominate a Story' and 'Self-Nominate My Own Story'.
If you're the author, you get the whole form. Otherwise, you get the
short version, and the author has to come in and fill out all the other
details.

Anthony

On Nov 19, 2005, at 11:05 AM, Marta Layton wrote:

>> list. If there were any duplicates, I could make an admin page to 
>> 'merge duplicate canon characters.' I need to do that for duplicate 
>> authors, as is, so I'll have to think through the basic merging
>> process 
>> anyway.
>>
>
> I like this in principle, but I'm concerned that a lot of characters
> have multiple names -- and we might get some duplicate entries, for
> example, Grima and Wormtongue. It's not horribly likely but if this
> happens would it be possible to merge two names describing the same
> character into one label?
>
> Let's say three stories have been nominated with Wormtongue listed as a
> character, but none listing "Grima". So "Wormtongue" is on the list but
> "Grima" isn't. I add a character and list Grima as a major character in
> my work, and two weeks later someone is browsing the list of characters
> and notices we have different names of the same character listed as two
> separate characters. What I'd love to see happen is we can move the one
> story from Grima to Wormtongue and delete the character "Grima". How
> much work would a situation like that be?
>
> Marta

I believe I could write a 'merge duplicates' page for the admins. They
could then rename one as Grima/Wormtongue.

We could start off the list by using both variations where there is a
common name duality, and say that the first alphabetically will be
first, so you would get Grima/Wormtongue, so folks will know where to
look in the list. Hopefully, people would read the instructions and add
new ones like this.

If I have time, I might be able to somehow list them both places, but
not cause any duplication problems.

Later,
Anthony

>
> MAIN CATEGORIES
>
> Please choose *one* and *only one* from each of the following lists.
> Your responses will help us to try to place your story in a MEFA
> category that is most appropriate.
>
> A. Which of these time periods is your story based in?
>
> 1. Before the end of the First Age - anything before the overthrow of
> Morgoth.
>
> 2. The Second Age - anything between the overthrow of Morgoth and the
> Last Alliance.
>
> 3. The early Third Age - anything during the Third Age before the quest
> for Erebor.
>
> 4. Quest for Eregbor - anything set around the events of _The Hobbit_,
> or about the characters and peoples of that book before or after the
> Quest for Erebor.
>
> 5. Pre-Quest - Stories about the characters of The Lord of the Rings
> set before the War of the Ring.
>
> 6. War of the Ring - Stories about the events of _The Lord of the
> Rings_, including the aftermath (before the Ringbearers sailed West)
>
> 7. Fourth Age and Beyond - Stories about the events after the sailing
> of the Ring Bearers, or crossovers between Middle-earth and the modern
> world.

I like this system based on time. But I think we are missing one category. I
have read several stories lately, which spanned more than one age. These
stories would fit none of the above categories neatly.

Chris

On 19 Nov 2005, at 14:39, Chris Grzonka wrote:

> >
> > MAIN CATEGORIES
> >
> > Please choose *one* and *only one* from each of the following lists.
> > Your responses will help us to try to place your story in a MEFA
> > category that is most appropriate.
> >
> > A. Which of these time periods is your story based in?
> >
> > 1. Before the end of the First Age - anything before the overthrow
> of
> > Morgoth.
> >
> > 2. The Second Age - anything between the overthrow of Morgoth and
> the
> > Last Alliance.
> >
> > 3. The early Third Age - anything during the Third Age before the
> quest
> > for Erebor.
> >
> > 4. Quest for Eregbor - anything set around the events of _The
> Hobbit_,
> > or about the characters and peoples of that book before or after the
> > Quest for Erebor.
> >
> > 5. Pre-Quest - Stories about the characters of The Lord of the Rings
> > set before the War of the Ring.
> >
> > 6. War of the Ring - Stories about the events of _The Lord of the
> > Rings_, including the aftermath (before the Ringbearers sailed West)
> >
> > 7. Fourth Age and Beyond - Stories about the events after the
> sailing
> > of the Ring Bearers, or crossovers between Middle-earth and the
> modern
> > world.
>
> I like this system based on time. But I think we are missing one
> category. I
> have read several stories lately, which spanned more than one age.
> These
> stories would fit none of the above categories neatly.
>
> Chris
>

Would it be possible to have these as check-boxes instead of radio
buttons? That way someone with a tale that spanned more than one age
could select all the appropriate ones.

Otherwise, I would have no problem adding:

8. Multi-age - Stories spanning more than one of the above.

Marta

> Would it be possible to have these as check-boxes instead of radio
> buttons? That way someone with a tale that spanned more than one age
> could select all the appropriate ones.
>
> Otherwise, I would have no problem adding:
>
> 8. Multi-age - Stories spanning more than one of the above

I think option 2 is best: just add a multi-age option. The aim is to
get the author to choose only one option from each list that *best*
describes his or her story. An author can only compete within one main
category, and the point is to try to get him or her to determine which
it should be. Multiple check boxes may give the illusion of being able
to compete in multiple main categories, and will require us to then
choose, within any given category, which of the multiple checked
options is best. If an author has chosen six or seven boxes, that's a
lot more to sort out and organize than three, whether we make the
author do the sorting or whether we make the categorizers do it, or
some sort of interplay betwen the two.

Dwim

On 19 Nov 2005, at 15:33, dwimmer_laik wrote:

>
> > Would it be possible to have these as check-boxes instead of radio
> > buttons? That way someone with a tale that spanned more than one age
> > could select all the appropriate ones.
> >
> > Otherwise, I would have no problem adding:
> >
> > 8. Multi-age - Stories spanning more than one of the above
>
> I think option 2 is best: just add a multi-age option. The aim is to
> get the author to choose only one option from each list that *best*
> describes his or her story.

Good points - I agree, adding a Multi-age option is best.

We didn't have a category for multi-age stories. Do we need to have
that this year?

Marta

Hi Dwim,

> > Dwim, are you keeping up with these proposed changes, btw? Or is
> > someone else? I haven't been, and I think we'll need a "final
> version"
> > eventually.
>
> I've  been keeping track, making a few changes as we go.
>

Thanks for doing that.

<snip>

> > >  Rating (if incorrect, please change): [already provided]
> >
> > With all the different archives' ratings out there, I think this
> should
> > be left up to the author, too.
>
> I do think, however, it'd be good to have a standard drop-down list.
> The awards don't accept NC-17 stories, so that needs to be clear. If
> this were a webform, I'd say let's use the standard film ratings and
> give them no choice about it. If it's a write-in e-mail or textbox
> form, we need to keep an eye out for NC-17, and make sure we tell
> authors what rating system we are using and ask them to please
> translate their site's rating system into it.
>

I do agree that we should have a standard drop-down list, though I'd
suggest going with a more descriptive name for the ratings. Ainae and I
actually discussed going to the FictionPress.com rating system when
FF.net started using it. But we can hammer that out later.

> >
> > >  Warnings (choose all that apply):
> > >        Extreme violence
> > >        Graphic depictions of sex
> > >        Mature themes
> > >        Non-canonical romance: m/f
> > >        Non-canonical romance: m/m or f/f
> > >          Non-canonical romance: multiple partners
> > >          Incestuous attraction
> > >        None
> >
> > I'd rather not break romantic content into slash and het. Why don't
> we
> > replace those four options with a "Romantic Content" warning, and
> have
> > a separate field for romantic partner(s) like we did this year?
>
> Because "Romantic content" is not what people want to be warned about,
> frankly. They want to know whether there will be slash, multiple
> pairings, or non-canonical het sex/romance. If the author has the
> romantic partners' names and relationship in the summary, people will
> notice that. If not, there's probably a reason, but the only thing the
> author would have to warn for would be explicitness or the above three
> kinds of sexual/romantic relationships.
>
> I suppose since the code is already set up to handle a romantic
> partners textbox, so long as it's made clear what the options are (you
> can put the partners' names in, separate by slashes, you can use the
> words 'het' or 'slash', f/f, m/m, or some other combination of those
> letters), that'd work for me. I just think more people will look to
> the warnings than to that other field--fandom doesn't operate in a
> neutral mode when it comes to sex and romance, it operates on an alert
> system.
>

I just don't want the MEFAs to be accused of being anti-slash (or
anti-het, but given the discussions back when we were first getting
started, I'm most worried about anti-slash allegations). Maybe I'm
misremembering - didn't we make a big poitn back in 2004 that you
*didn't* have to put het or slash in the warning field, that that was
why we had the romantic partners?

It may not be a problem since the drop-down list offers the ability to
warn against both, one after the other.

> > Also, I'm tempted to add the following:
> >
> > Movieverse
> > Alternate Universe
> > Silmarillion Knowledge Helpful
> >
> > I'm honestly not sure about this; this may be confusing. None of
> these
> > are "warnings" in the same sense, but they are things that people
> might
> > like to be aware of before reading.
>
> I wouldn't do it. Movieverse and Alternate Universe already have their
> own categories and are identified a little later on the form.
> Silmarillion also has its own category, and I firmly believe in the
> rightness of footnotes for things that require you to know about some
> obscure reference to volume 3 of HoME, or the like. I think it would
> complicate things, and it also assumes that Silm is the only thing
> people wouldn't know about. That may not be a wrong assumption in
> general, but there will always be those who are more Silm and HoME
> savvy than "The Hobbit" or LOTR savvy.
>

Good point. When I was writing the FAQs, someone (I forget who)
encouraged me to put in a line saying people might want to mention if a
story was AU or movieverse. The idea was that those categories might be
the second or third choice, or the piece would have to be moved to a
different category. If all of this information will be visible after
nomination season, I have no problem not listing it as a warning.

> > I think this might work better if we broke it down based on the time
> > period rather than source material?
>
> I like your timeline break-up, so I've adopted it for version 2.1, and
> I've added the source material question to the BASICS section.
>

Thanks. I'm glad you like it better; I think it works better than the
source material layout just because Tolkien is so wonderfully
fragmentary, and I know a lot of stories that pull from multiple
sources.

> > I think this might work better if we develop lists for people to
> choose
> > from, rather than having them describe it in a certain number of
> words.
> > This would make it possible to filter stories by one of these things
> > (if we want to go in that direction - I'll have to pound out the
> > technical details with Anthony later).
>
> I'm open to that, as noted in a previous e-mail. I'm just going on the
> assumption right now that we should develop the form first as if it
> had to be filled in manually. If it gets coded, then we can see how
> that goes and use the manual version as a guide to what a webform
> would need to be able to handle.
>

Okay, that's good to know. It's always good to have an ideal solution
and one that doesn't require as much technical work.

> > >
> > >  4. If your story is based on filmed versions of Tolkien's work,
> which
> > >  film/set of films is it based on?
> > >
> >
> > Perhaps I'm being naive here, but is this one necessary? I can't
> think
> > of a single story I've come across that is based on an adaptation
> other
> > than Jackson's.
>
> This is true, I just do it for completeness and in case anyone ever
> *does* submit something based on a different film.
>

<snip>

> I'd break it up into:
>
> Dear [author name],
>
> Congratulations! Your story, [title], has been nominated for the
> MEFAs.

Spell it out? Middle-earth Fanfiction Awards ?

> We hope you'll permit your story to compete, and join in the
> voting yourself--it's been a fun and rewarding experience for us, and
> we hope it will be for you, too.
>

This could be read to mean that you have to join in the voting to have
your story participating. I know the comma means that that's not the
case, but I don't want that subtlety to get lost on other people.
Maybe:

We hope you'll permit your story to compete, and that you will join in
by nominating and voting yourself -- it's been a fun and rewarding
experience for us, and we hope it will be for you, too.

Other than that, looks good!

> Below is a revised version of the form. Again, I'm more or less going
> with the assumption right now that we have a manual form, although at
> some points, I've inserted alternate language that might fit a
> webform.
>

It looks good to me - I don't have any further suggestions.

Marta

On 19 Nov 2005, at 14:13, Anthony Holder wrote:

> > I like this in principle, but I'm concerned that a lot of characters
> > have multiple names -- and we might get some duplicate entries, for
> > example, Grima and Wormtongue. It's not horribly likely but if this
> > happens would it be possible to merge two names describing the same
> > character into one label?
> >
> <snip>
> I believe I could write a 'merge duplicates' page for the admins. They
> could then rename one as Grima/Wormtongue.
>
> We could start off the list by using both variations where there is a
> common name duality, and say that the first alphabetically will be
> first, so you would get Grima/Wormtongue, so folks will know where to
> look in the list. Hopefully, people would read the instructions and
> add
> new ones like this.
>

This would work well. I can't think of many characters where you would
know one name and not recognise another as the "real" name. If you know
who Estel is, you probably also know his real name is Aragorn. But I'd
rather not have to trust people to read the list carefully. Most people
will, but it only takes a few people who are in a rush to create a
problem.

> If I have time, I might be able to somehow list them both places, but
> not cause any duplication problems.
>

That would be nice, but definitely falls in the "frills" category.
Don't feel any pressure if you don't want to invest your time that way.

And thanks for being so willing to help out!

Marta

On 19 Nov 2005, at 13:49, Anthony Holder wrote:

> On Nov 19, 2005, at 1:38 AM, Marta Layton wrote:
>
> > I like it. One thing we might consider is having this in two parts.
> One
> > would be labelled as what the nominators need to figure out. Then a
> > dividing line, and insturctions for the nominator to leave the rest
> of
> > the information blank unless they are self-nominating. Then when the
> > author logs in, they have the ability to edit the information in the
> > nominators' section and complete the authors' section.
>
> Once I get this done, I could pretty easily have an if-then, and have
> separate links to 'Nominate a Story' and 'Self-Nominate My Own Story'.
> If you're the author, you get the whole form. Otherwise, you get the
> short version, and the author has to come in and fill out all the
> other
> details.
>

Excellent! That would address my concern.

Marta