Yahoo Forum Archive

Hey guys,

I've got to run, and will try to answer these posts tonight. But for
me, as an administrator, the main questions are:

1. Do we still want a Movieverse question?
2. Do we want it to be in Times instead of Genres?
3. If the answer to (2) and (1) is yes, how does an author choose that
using Dwim's form?

Thanks for your thoughts, btw! You're making me reconsider how I
thought about the term "movieverse".

Marta)

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, Marta Layton <melayton@g...> wrote:

>
> Hey guys,
>
> I've got to run, and will try to answer these posts tonight. But for
> me, as an administrator, the main questions are:
>
> 1. Do we still want a Movieverse question?
> 2. Do we want it to be in Times instead of Genres?
> 3. If the answer to (2) and (1) is yes, how does an author choose that
> using Dwim's form?
>
> Thanks for your thoughts, btw! You're making me reconsider how I
> thought about the term "movieverse".
>
> Marta)
>

Remember too that the reason for including the question "Bookverse or
movieverse" was to create a times category that could be separated out
from a set of categories based on *source material*. If we have to
list every single book, movie, and what not, and consider how to
officially accommodate Bingo Baggins and Trotter, then I think we risk
making categories that are too idiosynchratic to be viable, and that
will annoy anyone who actually did choose that category but whose
story then had to be folded back into some more general category.

For Bingo Baggins and Trotter, I'd fill out the form like this
(cutting out the portions of the form irrelevant or indeterminable for
this discussion):

Title: The Great Adventure of Bingo Baggins and Trotter
Author: Dwym the Evil Twin
Summary: An AU to LOTR, based on the drafts of that story provided in
"Return of the Shadow." Bingo Baggins thought himself a right
comfortable hobbit until a mysterious wanderer named Trotter appeared
one day... (see author's notes for more details).

Warnings (please enter warnings you feel are appropriate): Requires
some knowledge of HoME drafts.

My story is:

1. Bookverse: based on the writings of J.R.R. Tolkien and/or drafts
made available by C. Tolkien

My story is:

1. Fiction

<snip>

MAIN CATEGORIES

Please choose *one* and *only one* from each of the following lists.
Your responses will help us to try to place your story in a MEFA
category that is most appropriate.

A. Which of these time periods is your story based in?

5. Late Third Age: Stories set between TA 2900 and TA 3017. Stories in
this category may include stories based around The Hobbit or about the
childhood of the characters of LOTR.


B. Which of these genres best describes your story?


2. Alternate Universe



Even without making drastic category changes, the form can accommodate
authors of stories based on Tolkien's drafts. Remember that the author
has control over the summary and warnings (now that we've moved back
to the original coding for warnings and romantic partners). That eases
confusion on the reader end and I think gives flexibility enough that
the form would not be misleading.

For a movieverse blend, I'd say let's give it a try: pick some
"blends" and see how they work when you fill out the form. Or do we
have authors of such fics who could give us a test run?

Here's the revised form, btw.


STORY FORM: Please read *all* instructions, and complete all fields to
the extent required.

BASICS

Title: [already provided]
Author: [already provided]
Summary: [author provides]
Rating (if incorrect, please change): [MEFA drop-down]
Warnings (please enter warnings you feel are appropriate)
Romantic pairings (please see <link>'that which must be
identified"</link> for explanation and options):
URL (if not preferred site, please replace): [provided by nominator]

Please choose *one* and *only one* from each of the following three lists:

My story is:

1. Bookverse: based on the writings of J.R.R. Tolkien and/or drafts
made available by C. Tolkien
2. Filmverse: based on a film adaptation of "The Lord of the Rings" or
"The Hobbit"

My story is:

1. Fiction
2. Non-fiction (if non-fiction, please skip to number 8 in
"Subcategories")


My story is best described as a...

1. Drabble (100 words exactly, plus 15 for title)
2. Drabble cycle (a series of individual drabbles connected by some theme)
3. Ficlet (101 up to, but not including, 500 words)
4. Short Story (500-10,000 words)
5. Novella (10,001-50,000 words)
6. Novel (>50,000 words)
7. Poem (any length)


MAIN CATEGORIES

Please choose *one* and *only one* from each of the following lists.
Your responses will help us to try to place your story in a MEFA
category that is most appropriate.

A. Which of these time periods is your story based in?

1. Before the end of the First Age - anything before the overthrow of
Morgoth.

2. The Second Age - anything between the overthrow of Morgoth and the
Last Alliance.

3. The early Third Age - anything during the Third Age before the quest
for Erebor.

4. Early Third Age: Stories set in the Third Age before 2900. These
stories should draw from the histories of the cultures of Middle-earth,
and in most cases will not involve characters who feature into "The
Lord of the Rings".

5. Late Third Age: Stories set between TA 2900 and TA 3017. Stories in
this category may include stories based around The Hobbit or about the
childhood of the characters of LOTR.

6. The Great Years: Stories set between TA 3018 and TA 3022. These
stories should be set around events like the Quest to destroy the Ring,
pre-war politics in Rohan and Gondor, the occupation of the Shire, the
War of the Ring itself, and the aftermath of the Ring War before the
Ring-bearers sailed West.

7. Fourth Age and Beyond - Stories about the events including but also
following the sailing of the Ring Bearers, or crossovers between
Middle-earth and the modern world.


B. Which of these genres best describes your story?

1. Action/Adventure
2. Alternate Universe
3. Crossover
4. Drama (includes Angst)
5. Horror
6. Humor
7. Mystery
8. Romance

C. Which of the following types of characters would you say is the
primary focus of your story?

1. Dwarves
2. Elves
3. Ents
4. Hobbits
5. Men
6. Valar/Ainur
7. Villains
8. Other
9. Story specifically interested in depicting and examining
interspecies interactions


D. Rank your category choices. In which of the above categories would
you *most prefer* your story to compete? Please list your first
category choice first, and your last category choice third (e.g., A,
C, B).



SUBCATEGORIES

Please fill in the following information/[Please select the following
from the drop-down lists provided or, if necessary, input the required
information in the "Other" textbox.] Your responses will help MEFA
categorizers create subcategories, subject to subcategory viability
rules. [webform: If answering a question would serve as a spoiler to
your story, please check the box "Decline to answer."]

1. Where does your story primarily take place, or about which place
does your story revolve (e.g., Gondolin, Houses of Healing, Beleriand,
Rohan, The Angle, The Shire, Angband etc.)? Please limit yourself to
four or fewer main places.


2. Who are your *main* characters, in order of priority? (Acknowledged
groups such as "Fellowship", "Ringbearers", "Feanorians", etc., also
useful here.) Please limit yourself to four or fewer main
characters/groups of characters.


3. Which time periods does the story primarily take place in/focus on
(e.g., First Age, Time of Trees, Fourth Age, etc.)? Please limit
yourself to four or fewer times.


4. If your story is based on filmed versions of Tolkien's work, which
film/set of films is it based on?

5. Is there a major canonical event around which your story revolves
(e.g., Akallabeth, destruction of Sirion, making of Khazad-dûm, Battle
of Unnumbered Tears, etc.)? Please limit yourself to four or fewer events.

6. Is there a particular subgenre or form commonly used in fandom or
film/literature that you think is applicable to and a good description
of your story that isn't represented above (e.g., metafic, noir,
pastische, filk, etc.)?

7. If your story is a poem, what is its form (e.g., haiku, tanka,
terzanelle, sonnet, free verse etc.)?


8. If your story is non-fiction, what is its main topic?


9. If your story is non-fiction, is it an essay (offering
interpretation) or an article (research article meant to assist others
by gathering and presenting useful facts, but without offering an
interpretation)?


ATTENTION, MEFA CATEGORIZERS!

Have any of the questions in the CATEGORIES or SUBCATEGORIES sections
required you to reveal information that would effectively serve as a
spoiler for your story, and which you would prefer not to have
considered when categories and subcategories are formed? Please
indicate this by writing, for example, SUBCATEGORIES, #2.

[webform version: see revised instructions above]

Whoops!

> Please choose *one* and *only one* from each of the following three

lists:

>
> My story is:
>
> 1. Bookverse: based on the writings of J.R.R. Tolkien and/or drafts
> made available by C. Tolkien
> 2. Filmverse: based on a film adaptation of "The Lord of the Rings" or
> "The Hobbit"

That should read: "My story is *predominantly*:"

Dwim

Hi Dwim,

Your revised form currently lists two "early Third Age"
categories...I think you meant to delete the first one? Also, in
subcategories # 3, I think we wanted to remove examples like First
Age and Fourth Age, as they are already listed as main categories,
and maybe add language like "which time periods *not listed
above*"...etc. Time of Trees is a good example; others could include
pre-Quest, War of the Ring, etc.

Kathy (Inkling)

ps--I greatly look forward to Dwym the Evil Twin's story, "The Great
Adventure of Bingo Baggins and Trotter."

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "dwimmer_laik" <dwimmer_laik@y...>
wrote:

>
> --- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, Marta Layton <melayton@g...>

wrote:

> >
> > Hey guys,
> >
> > I've got to run, and will try to answer these posts tonight. But

for

> > me, as an administrator, the main questions are:
> >
> > 1. Do we still want a Movieverse question?
> > 2. Do we want it to be in Times instead of Genres?
> > 3. If the answer to (2) and (1) is yes, how does an author choose

that

> > using Dwim's form?
> >
> > Thanks for your thoughts, btw! You're making me reconsider how I
> > thought about the term "movieverse".
> >
> > Marta)
> >
>
> Remember too that the reason for including the question "Bookverse

or

> movieverse" was to create a times category that could be separated

out

> from a set of categories based on *source material*. If we have to
> list every single book, movie, and what not, and consider how to
> officially accommodate Bingo Baggins and Trotter, then I think we

risk

> making categories that are too idiosynchratic to be viable, and that
> will annoy anyone who actually did choose that category but whose
> story then had to be folded back into some more general category.
>
> For Bingo Baggins and Trotter, I'd fill out the form like this
> (cutting out the portions of the form irrelevant or indeterminable

for

> this discussion):
>
> Title: The Great Adventure of Bingo Baggins and Trotter
> Author: Dwym the Evil Twin
> Summary: An AU to LOTR, based on the drafts of that story provided

in

> "Return of the Shadow." Bingo Baggins thought himself a right
> comfortable hobbit until a mysterious wanderer named Trotter

appeared

> one day... (see author's notes for more details).
>
> Warnings (please enter warnings you feel are appropriate): Requires
> some knowledge of HoME drafts.
>
> My story is:
>
> 1. Bookverse: based on the writings of J.R.R. Tolkien and/or drafts
> made available by C. Tolkien
>
> My story is:
>
> 1. Fiction
>
> <snip>
>
> MAIN CATEGORIES
>
> Please choose *one* and *only one* from each of the following lists.
> Your responses will help us to try to place your story in a MEFA
> category that is most appropriate.
>
> A. Which of these time periods is your story based in?
>
> 5. Late Third Age: Stories set between TA 2900 and TA 3017. Stories

in

> this category may include stories based around The Hobbit or about

the

> childhood of the characters of LOTR.
>
>
> B. Which of these genres best describes your story?
>
>
> 2. Alternate Universe
>
>
>
> Even without making drastic category changes, the form can

accommodate

> authors of stories based on Tolkien's drafts. Remember that the

author

> has control over the summary and warnings (now that we've moved back
> to the original coding for warnings and romantic partners). That

eases

> confusion on the reader end and I think gives flexibility enough

that

> the form would not be misleading.
>
> For a movieverse blend, I'd say let's give it a try: pick some
> "blends" and see how they work when you fill out the form. Or do we
> have authors of such fics who could give us a test run?
>
> Here's the revised form, btw.
>
>
> STORY FORM: Please read *all* instructions, and complete all fields

to

> the extent required.
>
> BASICS
>
> Title: [already provided]
> Author: [already provided]
> Summary: [author provides]
> Rating (if incorrect, please change): [MEFA drop-down]
> Warnings (please enter warnings you feel are appropriate)
> Romantic pairings (please see <link>'that which must be
> identified"</link> for explanation and options):
> URL (if not preferred site, please replace): [provided by nominator]
>
> Please choose *one* and *only one* from each of the following three

lists:

>
> My story is:
>
> 1. Bookverse: based on the writings of J.R.R. Tolkien and/or drafts
> made available by C. Tolkien
> 2. Filmverse: based on a film adaptation of "The Lord of the Rings"

or

> "The Hobbit"
>
> My story is:
>
> 1. Fiction
> 2. Non-fiction (if non-fiction, please skip to number 8 in
> "Subcategories")
>
>
> My story is best described as a...
>
> 1. Drabble (100 words exactly, plus 15 for title)
> 2. Drabble cycle (a series of individual drabbles connected by some

theme)

> 3. Ficlet (101 up to, but not including, 500 words)
> 4. Short Story (500-10,000 words)
> 5. Novella (10,001-50,000 words)
> 6. Novel (>50,000 words)
> 7. Poem (any length)
>
>
> MAIN CATEGORIES
>
> Please choose *one* and *only one* from each of the following lists.
> Your responses will help us to try to place your story in a MEFA
> category that is most appropriate.
>
> A. Which of these time periods is your story based in?
>
> 1. Before the end of the First Age - anything before the overthrow

of

> Morgoth.
>
> 2. The Second Age - anything between the overthrow of Morgoth and

the

> Last Alliance.
>
> 3. The early Third Age - anything during the Third Age before the

quest

> for Erebor.
>
> 4. Early Third Age: Stories set in the Third Age before 2900. These
> stories should draw from the histories of the cultures of Middle-

earth,

> and in most cases will not involve characters who feature into "The
> Lord of the Rings".
>
> 5. Late Third Age: Stories set between TA 2900 and TA 3017. Stories

in

> this category may include stories based around The Hobbit or about

the

> childhood of the characters of LOTR.
>
> 6. The Great Years: Stories set between TA 3018 and TA 3022. These
> stories should be set around events like the Quest to destroy the

Ring,

> pre-war politics in Rohan and Gondor, the occupation of the Shire,

the

> War of the Ring itself, and the aftermath of the Ring War before the
> Ring-bearers sailed West.
>
> 7. Fourth Age and Beyond - Stories about the events including but

also

> following the sailing of the Ring Bearers, or crossovers between
> Middle-earth and the modern world.
>
>
> B. Which of these genres best describes your story?
>
> 1. Action/Adventure
> 2. Alternate Universe
> 3. Crossover
> 4. Drama (includes Angst)
> 5. Horror
> 6. Humor
> 7. Mystery
> 8. Romance
>
> C. Which of the following types of characters would you say is the
> primary focus of your story?
>
> 1. Dwarves
> 2. Elves
> 3. Ents
> 4. Hobbits
> 5. Men
> 6. Valar/Ainur
> 7. Villains
> 8. Other
> 9. Story specifically interested in depicting and examining
> interspecies interactions
>
>
> D. Rank your category choices. In which of the above categories

would

> you *most prefer* your story to compete? Please list your first
> category choice first, and your last category choice third (e.g., A,
> C, B).
>
>
>
> SUBCATEGORIES
>
> Please fill in the following information/[Please select the

following

> from the drop-down lists provided or, if necessary, input the

required

> information in the "Other" textbox.] Your responses will help MEFA
> categorizers create subcategories, subject to subcategory viability
> rules. [webform: If answering a question would serve as a spoiler to
> your story, please check the box "Decline to answer."]
>
> 1. Where does your story primarily take place, or about which place
> does your story revolve (e.g., Gondolin, Houses of Healing,

Beleriand,

> Rohan, The Angle, The Shire, Angband etc.)? Please limit yourself to
> four or fewer main places.
>
>
> 2. Who are your *main* characters, in order of priority?

(Acknowledged

> groups such as "Fellowship", "Ringbearers", "Feanorians", etc., also
> useful here.) Please limit yourself to four or fewer main
> characters/groups of characters.
>
>
> 3. Which time periods does the story primarily take place in/focus

on

> (e.g., First Age, Time of Trees, Fourth Age, etc.)? Please limit
> yourself to four or fewer times.
>
>
> 4. If your story is based on filmed versions of Tolkien's work,

which

> film/set of films is it based on?
>
> 5. Is there a major canonical event around which your story revolves
> (e.g., Akallabeth, destruction of Sirion, making of Khazad-dûm,

Battle

> of Unnumbered Tears, etc.)? Please limit yourself to four or fewer

events.

>
> 6. Is there a particular subgenre or form commonly used in fandom or
> film/literature that you think is applicable to and a good

description

> of your story that isn't represented above (e.g., metafic, noir,
> pastische, filk, etc.)?
>
> 7. If your story is a poem, what is its form (e.g., haiku, tanka,
> terzanelle, sonnet, free verse etc.)?
>
>
> 8. If your story is non-fiction, what is its main topic?
>
>
> 9. If your story is non-fiction, is it an essay (offering
> interpretation) or an article (research article meant to assist

others

> by gathering and presenting useful facts, but without offering an
> interpretation)?
>
>
> ATTENTION, MEFA CATEGORIZERS!
>
> Have any of the questions in the CATEGORIES or SUBCATEGORIES

sections

> required you to reveal information that would effectively serve as a
> spoiler for your story, and which you would prefer not to have
> considered when categories and subcategories are formed? Please
> indicate this by writing, for example, SUBCATEGORIES, #2.
>
> [webform version: see revised instructions above]
>

Hi Dwim,

On 2 Dec 2005, at 11:29, dwimmer_laik wrote:

> --- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, Marta Layton <melayton@g...> wrote:
> >
> > Hey guys,
> >
> > I've got to run, and will try to answer these posts tonight. But for
> > me, as an administrator, the main questions are:
> >
> > 1. Do we still want a Movieverse question?

Ugh. In my rush I meant to type "Do we still want a movieverse
*category*." Sorry if that wasn't clear.

> > 2. Do we want it to be in Times instead of Genres?
> > 3. If the answer to (2) and (1) is yes, how does an author choose
> that
> > using Dwim's form?
> >
> > Thanks for your thoughts, btw! You're making me reconsider how I
> > thought about the term "movieverse".
> >
> > Marta)
> >
>
> Remember too that the reason for including the question "Bookverse or
> movieverse" was to create a times category that could be separated out
> from a set of categories based on *source material*. If we have to
> list every single book, movie, and what not, and consider how to
> officially accommodate Bingo Baggins and Trotter, then I think we risk
> making categories that are too idiosynchratic to be viable, and that
> will annoy anyone who actually did choose that category but whose
> story then had to be folded back into some more general category.
>

More than that, I think it makes the thing unnecessarily complicated. I
don't want to go that route.

I think people are expecting this question to do one of two things
(what else is new around here): warn the reader about unexpected
movie-inspired content, and form a category. But I'm actually wondering
if this question might be better under subcategories. Then we could
have a possible "movieverse" subcategory in "Great Years", and if there
are enough graduate it from there.

For this purpose, the question would be something like:

*****

Is this story based primarily on an adaptation of JRR Tolkien's work
such as the Jackson or Bakshi films? If you select "Yes" it may be
placed in a subcategory with other movieverse stories. (Movie-inspired
stories are also eligible for all other stories.) If you do not want
your story placed in this sub-category, please select "Decline to
Answer" and mention in your story summary that it is movie-verse.

Yes
No
Decline to answer

*****

> STORY FORM: Please read *all* instructions, and complete all fields to
> the extent required.
>
> <snip>
> A. Which of these time periods is your story based in?
>
> <snip>
> 3. The early Third Age - anything during the Third Age before the
> quest
> for Erebor.
>
> 4. Early Third Age: Stories set in the Third Age before 2900. These
> stories should draw from the histories of the cultures of
> Middle-earth,
> and in most cases will not involve characters who feature into "The
> Lord of the Rings".
>

Do we need both of these? I'd go with #4.

> SUBCATEGORIES
>
> <snip>
> 3. Which time periods does the story primarily take place in/focus on
> (e.g., First Age, Time of Trees, Fourth Age, etc.)? Please limit
> yourself to four or fewer times.
>
> 5. Is there a major canonical event around which your story revolves
> (e.g., Akallabeth, destruction of Sirion, making of Khazad-dûm, Battle
> of Unnumbered Tears, etc.)? Please limit yourself to four or fewer
> events.
>

If we're going to have #3, I'd suggest making sure the examples are
more specific than the main categories. I'd actually recommend
combining the two:

Is your story set in a certain time period or around a certain event
(e.g., Time of the Trees, Akallabeth, Council of Elrond)? Please limit
yourself to four or fewer events, and please do not list time periods
that are also listed above as main categories.

Marta

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "Kathy" <inkling-tcbs@s...> wrote:

>
> Hi Dwim,
>
> Your revised form currently lists two "early Third Age"
> categories...I think you meant to delete the first one? Also, in
> subcategories # 3, I think we wanted to remove examples like First
> Age and Fourth Age, as they are already listed as main categories,
> and maybe add language like "which time periods *not listed
> above*"...etc. Time of Trees is a good example; others could include
> pre-Quest, War of the Ring, etc.

D'oh! *sigh* It's what happens when you update on the fly. Sorry about
all that, I've fixed it on the Word doc.

> Kathy (Inkling)
>
> ps--I greatly look forward to Dwym the Evil Twin's story, "The Great
> Adventure of Bingo Baggins and Trotter."

Granted the Trotter-Aragorn connection could be a way in for me, I'm
hoping this little fangful of fun will latch onto someone else's ankle...

Dwim

In a message dated 12/2/2005 7:36:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
dwimmer_laik@yahoo.com writes:

Granted the Trotter-Aragorn connection could be a way in for me, I'm
hoping this little fangful of fun will latch onto someone else's ankle...

Dwim
I think Soledad's actually played with it, but I can't remember if she
posted the results anywhere.

Isabeau







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]