Yahoo Forum Archive

My goodness can't you people be civil or at least wait until I'm conscious
before you go jumping off the deep end.

I asked for discussion on this and the only poeople who "discussed" said it
would be good to add a warnings field.

Soledad, I did NOT once call slash smut. I put it equal with any other thing
people might want to be warned about, INCLUDING YOU.

So can we all please calm down until I've had time to read all this and then
can we have a CIVIL discussion about it?

--LISTADMIN

Who is at work and can only read and write e-mails when there's no work to
be done.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "Ainaechoiriel" <mefaadmin@e...>
wrote:

> My goodness can't you people be civil or at least wait until I'm

conscious before you go jumping off the deep end.

I *am* being civil. I just happen to have a different opinion. That's
not the same. And I won't duck in fear anymore to say what I think.

> I asked for discussion on this and the only poeople who "discussed"

said it would be good to add a warnings field.

You forgot the people who live on the other side of the planet and
had no chance to take part of the discussion.

> Soledad, I did NOT once call slash smut. I put it equal with any

other thing people might want to be warned about, INCLUDING YOU.

I didn't assume that you said that. I said that "slash" has become
the equivalent of smut for many people and therefore the label is
discriminating. Still, I wouldn't have a problem to put it
on "Innocence", which *is* a same-gender romance. But I didn't want
it on stories who are of a different sort, just because a same-gender
relationship is implied. You were not listening.

> So can we all please calm down until I've had time to read all this

and then can we have a CIVIL discussion about it?

See above. But I won't fight you about this anymore. I'm leaving this
group. Feel free to remove *all* my stories from the nomination list -
I would do it myself, but since you fired me, it's no longer a
possibility.

Soledad

Soledad has left the list, so I will not reply to her post here. I replied
to her offline already.

I have removed her stories from the Nominations table and will soon remove
them from the web site. Note this is her request, not my choice. Thus all
discussion of Soledad in regards to the recent goings on here ends here.

Taking Soledad's place, however, is still up for discussion: I am now in
need again of an overseas moderater. Again, I see the duties of a moderator
to be administrative in helping to approve members, etc. but also helping to
keep the list civil. Why overseas? To help keep the peace and approve
members while I'm asleep.

Likewise, I now have a near vacancy in Categorization. Pervinca, since I
forgot about you, would you be willing to take up Soledad's categories? She
had Romance, Horror, Mystery, and The Hobbit. If so, would you please
contact her (I can give you her address if needed) and ask her to e-mail you
her spreadsheet? Thank you.

We also need someone to take over her Author Approvals. I will do so until I
have another volunteer. Keep the website up to date takes up a great deal
of my time, so it really would help if someone else volunteered. This would
be for authors whose names begin with I-L.

On to the big topic du jour:

I had a professor once who had a great mantra: "It's more complicated than
that." Works in just about every circumstance.

I do think symantics was one of the factors, but Andreth is right that my
own natural impatience was also a factor. While it *felt* to me that there
was a whole day for discussion, there actually wasn't. I looked back at the
time stamps and my call for discussion was only posted at 4:30 pm central
US. I do apologize for that. I am, by nature, impatient.

That said, I'm glad now that the discussion has opened in a civil and
substantial fashion. We had to define NC-17 for this group and now we need
to define slash, for this group. And then we need to decide how to "label"
it.

On that note, personally, I think the Romance Pairings is the least
offensive spot. Once we decide just how much involvement would say that
such "labeling" (for lack of a better word) would be necessary, a simple
piring (Aragorn/Legolas, Aragorn/Arwen, Legolas/OFC. OMC/OMC, etc.) would
clue a reader in right away to what is in the story (het or slash) without
any loaded label, such as "slash".

And now I feel it is necessary to clarify just what is official and public
about this group. Some of you have been around since the beginning and may
know. Others may not.

I think this is another factor in today's blowup. The "Warnings" label in
the Nominations table, for instance.

The Nominations Table on the Yahoo site is not "official". It is a
convenience. As far as nominations go, the official spot is the web page,
as those stories have been approved by their authors as well as the
nominations themselves being approved by Staff. The Nominations table is
just a quick way to see if a story has been nominated. It is also
convenient if you wish to get a head start on reading as there are at least
short summaries there, while the official web site does not. Yet.

When the full official Nominations pages (one per main category if I can
work it) are finished, they will have more information than they do now,
including summaries, ratings, reasons for ratings, and romance partners.
Then and only then will any such "labeling" become official.

It may also be helpful to know that on this group, the archives are public.
Which means non-members can read our discussions. Our databases are NOT
public. That means that no one outside this group could have even seen the
"Warnings" column header on the nominations table. I know this was a
concern of at least one member, that the public might only see the label and
not the discussion. In fact, it is the opposite.

Okay, I think that about sums it up.

--Ainaechoiriel

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://www.stormpages.com/gabrielle/lotr Land of Myth and Memory
Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com

I personally am disgusted that once again a small minority of people have
spoiled things for everyone else with 'holier than thou' attitudes about
slash.

I defend the rights of people to write slash, and to read it. If you don't
like it, don't nominate it, don't read it, but for goodness sakes, don't
bash people who do. They have committed no crime, and now good people have
been driven away from these awards which sounded like a breath of fresh air,
and have turned out to be the same old same old.

I am seriously considering whether I can remain involved in conscience with
such narrow minded people.

Jillian

>
> > My goodness can't you people be civil or at least wait until I'm
>conscious before you go jumping off the deep end.
>
>I *am* being civil. I just happen to have a different opinion. That's
>not the same. And I won't duck in fear anymore to say what I think.
>
> > I asked for discussion on this and the only poeople who "discussed"
>said it would be good to add a warnings field.
>
>You forgot the people who live on the other side of the planet and
>had no chance to take part of the discussion.
>
> > Soledad, I did NOT once call slash smut. I put it equal with any
>other thing people might want to be warned about, INCLUDING YOU.
>
>I didn't assume that you said that. I said that "slash" has become
>the equivalent of smut for many people and therefore the label is
>discriminating. Still, I wouldn't have a problem to put it
>on "Innocence", which *is* a same-gender romance. But I didn't want
>it on stories who are of a different sort, just because a same-gender
>relationship is implied. You were not listening.
>
> > So can we all please calm down until I've had time to read all this
>and then can we have a CIVIL discussion about it?
>
>See above. But I won't fight you about this anymore. I'm leaving this
>group. Feel free to remove *all* my stories from the nomination list -
> I would do it myself, but since you fired me, it's no longer a
>possibility.
>
>Soledad
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
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--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "Jillian Baade" <jilba25@h...>
wrote:> I personally am disgusted

Anyone who responds to this needs to do so in a civil manner.

Jillian,
No one has requested that slash not be written or read, only that it
be identified so that people who chose not to read it can avoid it.
There has been a discussion period and a decision by Ainae as to how
this will be handled.

Please read the later mails to see how this has been resolved before
you post on the subject again.

Sulriel co-moderator

Fine, whatever!

If people starting to read a story suddenly realise that it contains same
sex romantic relationships and can't press the back button I feel sorry for
their stupidy, and the arrogance of those who have driven at least one
writer away!

Jillian

>wrote:> I personally am disgusted
>
>Anyone who responds to this needs to do so in a civil manner.
>
>Jillian,
>No one has requested that slash not be written or read, only that it
>be identified so that people who chose not to read it can avoid it.
>There has been a discussion period and a decision by Ainae as to how
>this will be handled.
>
>Please read the later mails to see how this has been resolved before
>you post on the subject again.
>
>Sulriel co-moderator
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Find love today with ninemsn personals. Click here:
http://ninemsn.match.com?referrer=hotmailtagline

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "Jillian Baade" <jilba25@h...>
wrote:

>
> If people starting to read a story suddenly realise that it

contains same > sex romantic relationships and can't press the back
button I feel sorry for <snipped>

Personal attacks and judgements will not be tolerated on this list.

Sulriel co-moderator

In fact, we can just not respond at all. This has been handled privately
and, as I told Jenn, this was over two days ago.

--Ainaechoiriel

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://www.stormpages.com/gabrielle/lotr Land of Myth and Memory
Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: sulriel [mailto:Sulriel@htcomp.net]
> Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 7:45 AM
> To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [MEFAwards] Re: HOLD YOUR HORSES!
>
> --- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "Jillian Baade"
> <jilba25@h...> wrote:> I personally am disgusted
>
> Anyone who responds to this needs to do so in a civil manner.
>
> Jillian,
> No one has requested that slash not be written or read, only
> that it be identified so that people who chose not to read it
> can avoid it.
> There has been a discussion period and a decision by Ainae as
> to how this will be handled.
>
> Please read the later mails to see how this has been resolved
> before you post on the subject again.
>
> Sulriel co-moderator
>
>
>
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