Yahoo Forum Archive

Dear all,
I have to say that I'm starting to feel a little uncomfortable on this list.
The type of list that I enjoy participating in is one where a free and frank
exchange of ideas is welcomed, and where animated discussion can take place.
Both during this 'slash' discussion and the previous one on NC-17,
moderators have actively quelled the discussion when I didn't see anything
posted that I felt was over the top. Posts may have been vociferous but they
remained polite. I am now getting the impression that certain subjects
(slash and sex particularly) may not even be mentioned for fear of offending
some of the more sensitive members. While of course I understand and respect
everyone's right to their own moral mode and personal beliefs, this list
spans the globe and contains members from all walks of life, with a myriad
of life experience and many different cultures and beliefs. Anyone who is a
member of such a group cannot ever hope not to meet with ideas and attitudes
that they don't share. I personally cannot be happy in a group unless I feel
at liberty to have a free, frank and animated discussion on any subject,
providing, of course, that the content of the post is suitable for a
general, public forum, and that it relates to Tolkien fanfic of course :)

Sorne/Enros

Good morning Sorne/Enros.

The intent with moderation has not been meant to make anyone feel
uncomfortable, but to allow *discussion*, perhaps a little less
animated than you may find on some other lists.

With such hot topics, it is sometimes difficult to keep the
distinction between a general discussion group, on which issues may
be discussed in a moral, ethical, emotional kind of way as to how
they relate to life in general, and this awards groups, where
discussion should be geared toward how those issues will be presented
and judged for these awards.

When discussion has been civil, it has not been moderated. I have
moderated when I felt the comments were of a more emotional or
personal nature rather than geared toward moving the discussion
forward.

>>>While of course I understand and respect> everyone's right to

their own moral mode and personal beliefs, this list> spans the globe
and contains members from all walks of life, with a myriad> of life
experience and many different cultures and beliefs. Anyone who is a

> member of such a group cannot ever hope not to meet with ideas and

attitudes> that they don't share. I personally cannot be happy in a
group unless I feel> at liberty to have a free, frank and animated

I see that, in many cases, those with stricter or more narrow moral
modes and personal beliefs are the ones who are disrespected and I
believe that tolerance should be extended in both directions.

I hope that you do feel happy here and comfortable to join our less-
animated discussions.

I'm still on my first cup of coffee, so if some part of the above
doesn't make sense, I'll try again in half an hour.




--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "Sorne&Enros" <Sorne&Enros@m...>
wrote:> Dear all,> I have to say that I'm starting to feel a little
uncomfortable on this list.> The type of list that I enjoy
articipating in is one where a free and frank> exchange of ideas is
welcomed, and where animated discussion can take place.> Both during
this 'slash' discussion and the previous one on NC-17,> moderators
have actively quelled the discussion when I didn't see anything

> posted that I felt was over the top. Posts may have been vociferous

but they> remained polite. I am now getting the impression that
certain subjects> (slash and sex particularly) may not even be
mentioned for fear of offending> some of the more sensitive members.
While of course I understand and respect> everyone's right to their
own moral mode and personal beliefs, this list> spans the globe and
contains members from all walks of life, with a myriad> of life
experience and many different cultures and beliefs. Anyone who is a

> member of such a group cannot ever hope not to meet with ideas and

attitudes> that they don't share. I personally cannot be happy in a
group unless I feel> at liberty to have a free, frank and animated
discussion on any subject,> providing, of course, that the content of
the post is suitable for a> general, public forum, and that it
relates to Tolkien fanfic of course :)>

> Sorne/Enros

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sorne&Enros [mailto:Sorne&Enros@magic-tortoise.co.uk]
> Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 3:27 AM
> To: MEFAwards
> Subject: [MEFAwards] feeling somewhat uncomfortable
>
> Dear all,
> I have to say that I'm starting to feel a little
> uncomfortable on this list.

I'm sorry to hear that.

> The type of list that I enjoy participating in is one where a
> free and frank exchange of ideas is welcomed, and where
> animated discussion can take place.

And I prefer a list that stays civil and not so animated. As I've said
before, I'ts very difficult to please everyone.

> Both during this 'slash' discussion and the previous one on
> NC-17, moderators have actively quelled the discussion when I
> didn't see anything posted that I felt was over the top.

Just as our tastes in lists may be different out tolerance or what we feel
as "over the top" may be different as well. I did feel that the discussions
went over the top. When a member says the list has become hostile and
threatens to leave based on one person's (not even a list official) posts,
that, to me, is over the top. What happened here more recently (purposely
being vague here) just before the "quell", I felt was "over the top."

I'm actually quite surprised at your post. If this had come yesterday
morning, I wouldn't be surprised. Because yes, the "animated" part was
quelled. But since then, a quite open, lively, and civil discussion of what
slash means for this group has been going on. It has been substantial and
meaningful. And purposeful. As Sulriel said, this is not a general
discussion list. It's is a list with a specific purpose. These awards. So
slash, in general, does not need to be discussed here. How this awards
group will handle slash (and it will) does need to be discussed. NC-17 did
not need to be beyond defining it for this awards contest because NC-17 is
not eligible. Slash is. Slash is controversial. It apparently does need to
be discussed because we have some readers who want to know that they are
opening up a slash story before they read, and yet we don't want slash
writers to feel singled out.

So, our first step appears to be define what slash is for this awards
contest. And then decide how we will handle slash. I am of the opinion that
Romance Pairings is the least offensive way to handle it. Readers can look
at the pairings and know almost instantly what kind of relationships will be
involved.

I don't run many groups/lists, but I have run a few before. I don't ask
everyone to agree with me. But I do ask that they remain civil. When I was
the only moderator, my judgment of what was civil and uncivil was all we had
to go by. I asked for volunteers to be co-moderators. Sulriel responded.
Now we balance her judgment and mine. I asked for a moderator from overseas
(to watch the list and approve members, etc. when I'm asleep). Soledad
responded and the three of us worked together to decide how best to handle
the NC-17 situation for this group.

> Posts may have been vociferous but they remained polite. I am
> now getting the impression that certain subjects (slash and
> sex particularly) may not even be mentioned for fear of
> offending some of the more sensitive members.

Slash and sex have been the topics of a majority of posts since 1am
Wednesday morning. Even after the "quell". So I don't feel your fear is
valid. I don't tell people they can't talk about these things. I only ask
that things remain civil when doing so.

> While of course
> I understand and respect everyone's right to their own moral
> mode and personal beliefs,

As do I.

> this list spans the globe and
> contains members from all walks of life, with a myriad of
> life experience and many different cultures and beliefs.

And I think that is wonderful.

> Anyone who is a member of such a group cannot ever hope not
> to meet with ideas and attitudes that they don't share.

Exactly.

> I
> personally cannot be happy in a group unless I feel at
> liberty to have a free, frank and animated discussion on any
> subject, providing, of course, that the content of the post
> is suitable for a general, public forum, and that it relates
> to Tolkien fanfic of course :)

That's great, with that additional caveat that it pertains to the purpose of
these awards in some form. Animated is fine, so long as it is civil. I
don't start writing in all caps until I feel things move beyond civil.

Just so everyone can be aware of our purpose and focus of this group, I will
draw up a charter and mission statement for this group and the Awards this
group represents.

I do hope that you will stay and feel comfortable within the purpose of this
group.

--Ainaechoiriel

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://www.stormpages.com/gabrielle/lotr Land of Myth and Memory
Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com