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Msg# 9338
Admin - Constructive Criticism vs. Negative Reviews Posted by Marta August 02, 2008 - 15:12:07 Topic ID# 9338Hey guys,
As you know, the first of the 2008 MEFA reviews are visible on our
website and have been for the past several weeks. If you're like me,
you've probably been checking obsessively at least every few days to see
if you've had any new reviews. It can be great fun. :-)
However, there's an issue that unfortunately comes up every now and then
in connection with reviews, and I'd like to discuss that. How should
reviewers write a review when they want to do something more than just
praise the author; and how should authors react to such reviews?
The MEFAs are to some extent the feel-good award of the fandom. Points
are to a certain extent intangible; but feedback and praise can be very
encouraging indeed. Since a longer review means more points for the
author, being critical of an author means that you are giving that story
more points. Because of this set-up, the MEFAs have never been a place
where you should tell the world how much you hated a story. Besides
being hurtful, it's counter-productive; even a single one-point review
of "This stinks" can result in a story winning when it wouldn't have
otherwise.
Of course, we *do* allow constructive criticism, and as an author I love
reviews that have challenged me to how I will present the character in
future stories. The trick is presenting it in a way that will be helpful
to the author and still give the story the number of points that you
want to give it.
***************************************
REVIEWING WHEN YOU DISAGREE WITH AN AUTHOR
You may be wondering what's the difference between constructive
criticism and a completely negative review, since one is allowed and the
other isn't. This is actually a fairly subjective question, and the
answer will vary a bit depending on the context (private beta work,
archive reviewing, award FB like at the MEFAs). So the MEFA answer won't
necessarily hold at (say) Stories of Arda, or anywhere else for that matter.
The first question you want to ask yourself is your motive in offering
the feedback. If the concept of Fingon/Maedhros slash makes your skin
crawl, then it's not really fair to submit a review saying that such a
story was grossly OOC (and saying nothing more than that). After all,
you should have been warned beforehand that the story involved
Fingon/Maedhros because it would be listed in the romance partners in
the story information. A MEFA review is not the appropriate place to
vent about how much you dislike some genre, pairing, etc. For one thing,
it inflates an author's score. And for another, the MEFAs aren't really
a dialogue. For the first time this year authors can reply to reviewers,
but such replies aren't shown on the website; they're just forwarded to
the reviewer through private email.
(Btw, if you see something that should be added to the story
description, like a pairing or warning, we can look into that - just
email mefasupport(.at.)mefawards(.dot.)net.)
On the other hand, it may be the case that you're open to
Fingon/Maedhros in general but think the author could have done a more
convincing job of it. Maybe you read a sweet Fingon/Maedhros vignette
where everyone accepts their tru luv without a second thought. You like
the writing style and the imagery, but that one aspect eeps you from
completely buying into the story. If you complimented the author on
those aspects you liked but also said that if such stories hinted at
possible political side affects of such an attraction you would have
found it a little more convincing, this would be constructive criticism.
You're not saying that the author is wrong to write this particular
subgenre (slash) or pairing (Fingon/Maedhros), but are instead
explaining how the author could do a better job of writing these things.
Also in this hypothetical review, you'll notice the reviewer did more
than just say what he or she didn't like; it also covered things the
reviewer thought the author did well. This is key. Constructive
criticism should include praise as well as criticism - and in balanced
measure; you shouldn't just give one perfunctory compliment and then
proceed into a laundry list of criticisms.
If you're in doubt, feel free to run your review by the admins at
mefasupport(.at.)mefawards(.dot.)net. And don't forget, you don't have
to say everything in a review; it's okay for you to end a review saying
you'd love to discuss this in more detail by email, if the author's
interested; they can email you if they would like more feedback.
***************************************
CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM - PRACTICAL SUGGESTIONS
If you decide to write a review with constructive criticism, it is
important to remember that whatever you have to say only represents your
opinion. From a writer's perspective, there is a world of difference
between "Faramir wouldn't act like a whiny baby, like you portray him
here" and "I don't think Faramir would act like a whiny baby, as I see
you portraying him here." Even better would be if you avoid
characterizing the author, for instance, "The way I read your story,
Faramir seems a little immature for his age. Did you intend this?
Personally, I have a hard time seeing him acting that way at that age."
This often will help keep the author from feeling attacked (because
you're expressing your opinion, not claiming to represent theirs).
On a similar note: understatement is often your friend. Authors may balk
at "whiny baby" who would accept "a little immature," and both will get
the author asking the question: does my character act in a way
consistent with what we know about Faramir, and for someone his age?
After all, authors can reply to your reviews, and so maybe you can get
across what you mean in private if they are interested in hearing more
of what they have to say.
When writing constructive criticism in a public group like the MEFAs, I
tend to follow a two-for-one rule: two things I like for every one I
didn't, preferably in at least as much detail as my criticism. Sometimes
in shorter reviews I have to only give one-for-one, but I try never to
give more criticism than praise outside of a beta environment -
certainly in a program like the MEFAs, where I often don't know the
author and many of the stories have been published for months if not years.
Finally, if your criticism involves canon in any way - timeline mistakes
but also characterization issues and physical descriptions - I try to
make sure I have my canon right by researching it if at all possible.
There are some great resources out there, like the Research Library of
HASA (http://www.henneth-annun.net/resources/index.cfm) and the Tolkien
Gateway project (http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Main_Page) that organize
the pertinent Tolkien facts into articles on events and characters. If
you're going to say that Faramir had raven-black hair, it might be
useful to both you and the author if you had the canon quotes at your
disposal. Not necessarily provided in the review (I know space is at a
premium there), but if the author should contact you and ask for why you
think a certain thing (you did present it as your opinion, right? rather
than incontrovertible fact? :-D) it's good to have your ducks in a row.
This also means you don't make invalid suggestions, which means that the
author is more likely to take your other criticisms seriously.
Hopefully these practical suggestions will help you say what you have to
say in a way that's most helpful to the author. If you struggle with
this, email mefasupport(.at.)mefawards(.dot.)net for help; I can read
over your review before you post it if you'd like, and also know of some
good general resources on writing critical feedback that I can point you to.
***************************************
REMOVING FLAMES
If a reader or an author comes across a review that they feel is
unfairly negative, we do have a procedure for handling this. So if you
think you've found a review that is overwhelmingly negative rather than
just critical, please email mefasupport(.at.)mefawards(.dot.)net so we
can look into it. Please do NOT make these requests publicly.
If the review is reported by the author, a group of volunteers will
examine it. This is most often Radbooks, Inkling, Elliska, and myself;
though if any one of us is the author or reviewer we will not
participate in the discussion. The volunteers will decide if the review
is really a flame, and if so it will be deleted. This means that it
won't contribute any points to the story but also won't be displayed.
If the review is spotted by someone not the author, the process is much
the same. However, if the review is decided to be a flame, the review
won't be deleted right away. Instead, we'll contact the author and ask
if they would like the review removed (and explain that they'd lose
points). Only if they say they want it removed will the review be deleted.
***************************************
Some helpful FAQs:
--- Can I be critical in my reviews?
http://www.mefawards.net/MEFA2008/index.php?page=FAQvoting#vot_4
--- Can an offensive review be removed?
http://www.mefawards.net/MEFA2008/index.php?page=FAQvoting#vot_8
Feel free to discuss this general issue here; if you'd like to discuss
any specific reviews please email mefasupport(.at.)mefawards(.dot.)net.
Thanks,
Marta
As you know, the first of the 2008 MEFA reviews are visible on our
website and have been for the past several weeks. If you're like me,
you've probably been checking obsessively at least every few days to see
if you've had any new reviews. It can be great fun. :-)
However, there's an issue that unfortunately comes up every now and then
in connection with reviews, and I'd like to discuss that. How should
reviewers write a review when they want to do something more than just
praise the author; and how should authors react to such reviews?
The MEFAs are to some extent the feel-good award of the fandom. Points
are to a certain extent intangible; but feedback and praise can be very
encouraging indeed. Since a longer review means more points for the
author, being critical of an author means that you are giving that story
more points. Because of this set-up, the MEFAs have never been a place
where you should tell the world how much you hated a story. Besides
being hurtful, it's counter-productive; even a single one-point review
of "This stinks" can result in a story winning when it wouldn't have
otherwise.
Of course, we *do* allow constructive criticism, and as an author I love
reviews that have challenged me to how I will present the character in
future stories. The trick is presenting it in a way that will be helpful
to the author and still give the story the number of points that you
want to give it.
***************************************
REVIEWING WHEN YOU DISAGREE WITH AN AUTHOR
You may be wondering what's the difference between constructive
criticism and a completely negative review, since one is allowed and the
other isn't. This is actually a fairly subjective question, and the
answer will vary a bit depending on the context (private beta work,
archive reviewing, award FB like at the MEFAs). So the MEFA answer won't
necessarily hold at (say) Stories of Arda, or anywhere else for that matter.
The first question you want to ask yourself is your motive in offering
the feedback. If the concept of Fingon/Maedhros slash makes your skin
crawl, then it's not really fair to submit a review saying that such a
story was grossly OOC (and saying nothing more than that). After all,
you should have been warned beforehand that the story involved
Fingon/Maedhros because it would be listed in the romance partners in
the story information. A MEFA review is not the appropriate place to
vent about how much you dislike some genre, pairing, etc. For one thing,
it inflates an author's score. And for another, the MEFAs aren't really
a dialogue. For the first time this year authors can reply to reviewers,
but such replies aren't shown on the website; they're just forwarded to
the reviewer through private email.
(Btw, if you see something that should be added to the story
description, like a pairing or warning, we can look into that - just
email mefasupport(.at.)mefawards(.dot.)net.)
On the other hand, it may be the case that you're open to
Fingon/Maedhros in general but think the author could have done a more
convincing job of it. Maybe you read a sweet Fingon/Maedhros vignette
where everyone accepts their tru luv without a second thought. You like
the writing style and the imagery, but that one aspect eeps you from
completely buying into the story. If you complimented the author on
those aspects you liked but also said that if such stories hinted at
possible political side affects of such an attraction you would have
found it a little more convincing, this would be constructive criticism.
You're not saying that the author is wrong to write this particular
subgenre (slash) or pairing (Fingon/Maedhros), but are instead
explaining how the author could do a better job of writing these things.
Also in this hypothetical review, you'll notice the reviewer did more
than just say what he or she didn't like; it also covered things the
reviewer thought the author did well. This is key. Constructive
criticism should include praise as well as criticism - and in balanced
measure; you shouldn't just give one perfunctory compliment and then
proceed into a laundry list of criticisms.
If you're in doubt, feel free to run your review by the admins at
mefasupport(.at.)mefawards(.dot.)net. And don't forget, you don't have
to say everything in a review; it's okay for you to end a review saying
you'd love to discuss this in more detail by email, if the author's
interested; they can email you if they would like more feedback.
***************************************
CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM - PRACTICAL SUGGESTIONS
If you decide to write a review with constructive criticism, it is
important to remember that whatever you have to say only represents your
opinion. From a writer's perspective, there is a world of difference
between "Faramir wouldn't act like a whiny baby, like you portray him
here" and "I don't think Faramir would act like a whiny baby, as I see
you portraying him here." Even better would be if you avoid
characterizing the author, for instance, "The way I read your story,
Faramir seems a little immature for his age. Did you intend this?
Personally, I have a hard time seeing him acting that way at that age."
This often will help keep the author from feeling attacked (because
you're expressing your opinion, not claiming to represent theirs).
On a similar note: understatement is often your friend. Authors may balk
at "whiny baby" who would accept "a little immature," and both will get
the author asking the question: does my character act in a way
consistent with what we know about Faramir, and for someone his age?
After all, authors can reply to your reviews, and so maybe you can get
across what you mean in private if they are interested in hearing more
of what they have to say.
When writing constructive criticism in a public group like the MEFAs, I
tend to follow a two-for-one rule: two things I like for every one I
didn't, preferably in at least as much detail as my criticism. Sometimes
in shorter reviews I have to only give one-for-one, but I try never to
give more criticism than praise outside of a beta environment -
certainly in a program like the MEFAs, where I often don't know the
author and many of the stories have been published for months if not years.
Finally, if your criticism involves canon in any way - timeline mistakes
but also characterization issues and physical descriptions - I try to
make sure I have my canon right by researching it if at all possible.
There are some great resources out there, like the Research Library of
HASA (http://www.henneth-annun.net/resources/index.cfm) and the Tolkien
Gateway project (http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Main_Page) that organize
the pertinent Tolkien facts into articles on events and characters. If
you're going to say that Faramir had raven-black hair, it might be
useful to both you and the author if you had the canon quotes at your
disposal. Not necessarily provided in the review (I know space is at a
premium there), but if the author should contact you and ask for why you
think a certain thing (you did present it as your opinion, right? rather
than incontrovertible fact? :-D) it's good to have your ducks in a row.
This also means you don't make invalid suggestions, which means that the
author is more likely to take your other criticisms seriously.
Hopefully these practical suggestions will help you say what you have to
say in a way that's most helpful to the author. If you struggle with
this, email mefasupport(.at.)mefawards(.dot.)net for help; I can read
over your review before you post it if you'd like, and also know of some
good general resources on writing critical feedback that I can point you to.
***************************************
REMOVING FLAMES
If a reader or an author comes across a review that they feel is
unfairly negative, we do have a procedure for handling this. So if you
think you've found a review that is overwhelmingly negative rather than
just critical, please email mefasupport(.at.)mefawards(.dot.)net so we
can look into it. Please do NOT make these requests publicly.
If the review is reported by the author, a group of volunteers will
examine it. This is most often Radbooks, Inkling, Elliska, and myself;
though if any one of us is the author or reviewer we will not
participate in the discussion. The volunteers will decide if the review
is really a flame, and if so it will be deleted. This means that it
won't contribute any points to the story but also won't be displayed.
If the review is spotted by someone not the author, the process is much
the same. However, if the review is decided to be a flame, the review
won't be deleted right away. Instead, we'll contact the author and ask
if they would like the review removed (and explain that they'd lose
points). Only if they say they want it removed will the review be deleted.
***************************************
Some helpful FAQs:
--- Can I be critical in my reviews?
http://www.mefawards.net/MEFA2008/index.php?page=FAQvoting#vot_4
--- Can an offensive review be removed?
http://www.mefawards.net/MEFA2008/index.php?page=FAQvoting#vot_8
Feel free to discuss this general issue here; if you'd like to discuss
any specific reviews please email mefasupport(.at.)mefawards(.dot.)net.
Thanks,
Marta
Msg# 9339
Re: Admin - Constructive Criticism vs. Negative Reviews Posted by Súlriel of Menegroth August 02, 2008 - 15:39:33 Topic ID# 9338I'm really enjoying these weekly posts. I know they're a lot of work
for you, but I think they're worthwhile.
Sulriel.
for you, but I think they're worthwhile.
Sulriel.
On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 3:12 PM, Marta <melayton@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey guys,
>
> As you know, the first of the 2008 MEFA reviews are visible on our
> website and have been for the past several weeks. If you're like me,
> you've probably been checking obsessively at least every few days to see
> if you've had any new reviews. It can be great fun. :-)
Msg# 9340
Re: Admin - Constructive Criticism vs. Negative Reviews Posted by Marta August 02, 2008 - 15:56:12 Topic ID# 9338Hi Sulriel,
I'm very glad that you are enjoying them. They are a little bit of work
to write, but it is actually easier to make announcements once where
they will be read by everyone rather than many times in individual
emails. Plus, if it helps avoid mistakes and misunderstanding, it's well
worth the fifteen minutes a week it takes me to write up an announcement
like this.
In many cases a lot of the work is already done, like when I can pull
heavily from the FAQ. And when I post lists of nominations on a certain
theme, Tanaqui gives me a lot of help. (This week I also had in mind an
SWG article that I read this week, for many of the practical suggestions
for writing con-crit.)
Thank *you* for taking the time to read them and think through the issues.
Marta
Súlriel of Menegroth wrote:
I'm very glad that you are enjoying them. They are a little bit of work
to write, but it is actually easier to make announcements once where
they will be read by everyone rather than many times in individual
emails. Plus, if it helps avoid mistakes and misunderstanding, it's well
worth the fifteen minutes a week it takes me to write up an announcement
like this.
In many cases a lot of the work is already done, like when I can pull
heavily from the FAQ. And when I post lists of nominations on a certain
theme, Tanaqui gives me a lot of help. (This week I also had in mind an
SWG article that I read this week, for many of the practical suggestions
for writing con-crit.)
Thank *you* for taking the time to read them and think through the issues.
Marta
Súlriel of Menegroth wrote:
>
>
> I'm really enjoying these weekly posts. I know they're a lot of work
> for you, but I think they're worthwhile.
>
> Sulriel.
>
> On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 3:12 PM, Marta <melayton@gmail.com
> <mailto:melayton%40gmail.com>> wrote:
> > Hey guys,
> >
> > As you know, the first of the 2008 MEFA reviews are visible on our
> > website and have been for the past several weeks. If you're like me,
> > you've probably been checking obsessively at least every few days to see
> > if you've had any new reviews. It can be great fun. :-)
Msg# 9341
Re: Admin - Constructive Criticism vs. Negative Reviews Posted by heartofoshun@aol.com August 02, 2008 - 16:46:08 Topic ID# 9338Maybe I have written too many reviews too fast (hence crankiness), but I
have found this year that I have a tendency to remark on what someone did that
made the story a hard sell for me and that I am writing the review because I
think it is better than most for other reasons. I usually do not insert a
negative point in a review purely out of constructive criticism (they have
friends and Betas for that who share their world view, odd canon interpretationm
right?), more self-defense (I must explain why I am giving this story points,
when it turns on its head everything I love about x, y, or z). I do not want
to give points to stories I dont like, but there are stories I like despite
themselves! LOL I never thought this would be a problem, because I would never
review a story I did not truly appreciate on a several different levels.
**************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
Read reviews on AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
have found this year that I have a tendency to remark on what someone did that
made the story a hard sell for me and that I am writing the review because I
think it is better than most for other reasons. I usually do not insert a
negative point in a review purely out of constructive criticism (they have
friends and Betas for that who share their world view, odd canon interpretationm
right?), more self-defense (I must explain why I am giving this story points,
when it turns on its head everything I love about x, y, or z). I do not want
to give points to stories I dont like, but there are stories I like despite
themselves! LOL I never thought this would be a problem, because I would never
review a story I did not truly appreciate on a several different levels.
**************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
Read reviews on AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Msg# 9346
Re: Admin - Constructive Criticism vs. Negative Reviews Posted by Marta August 04, 2008 - 0:49:15 Topic ID# 9338Hi Oshun,
Sorry it took me a few days to reply to this; I was not ignoring you but
instead taking care of some other stuff.
Anyway... I agree that this is often a fine line to walk, what is
constructive criticism and what is too negative. I think as long as you
are explaining what you actually liked about the story, then what you're
describing would be fine in most cases. A lot also depends on how well
you know the person - like when you talked about the infamous author's
notes (:-D) in your reviews of one of my stories. I didn't have any
problems with that, partly because you also told me what you liked about
the story and also because I knew you so could interpret it better. It
didn't bother me at all, and I suspect other authors (especially ones
who know you outside the MEFAs and so have a context to interpret your
comments) would interpret that kind of thing exactly the same way.
So you know, I haven't had any complaints about your reviews. Or anyone
else's this year, for that matter. This post was more... preventative,
than addressing a problem we're running into. It's been on my list of
things to discuss in weekly posts since the beginning of the year. If
there was an actual problem, I would have discussed it with the reviewer
before now.
Marrta
my heartofoshun@aol.com wrote:
Sorry it took me a few days to reply to this; I was not ignoring you but
instead taking care of some other stuff.
Anyway... I agree that this is often a fine line to walk, what is
constructive criticism and what is too negative. I think as long as you
are explaining what you actually liked about the story, then what you're
describing would be fine in most cases. A lot also depends on how well
you know the person - like when you talked about the infamous author's
notes (:-D) in your reviews of one of my stories. I didn't have any
problems with that, partly because you also told me what you liked about
the story and also because I knew you so could interpret it better. It
didn't bother me at all, and I suspect other authors (especially ones
who know you outside the MEFAs and so have a context to interpret your
comments) would interpret that kind of thing exactly the same way.
So you know, I haven't had any complaints about your reviews. Or anyone
else's this year, for that matter. This post was more... preventative,
than addressing a problem we're running into. It's been on my list of
things to discuss in weekly posts since the beginning of the year. If
there was an actual problem, I would have discussed it with the reviewer
before now.
Marrta
my heartofoshun@aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Maybe I have written too many reviews too fast (hence crankiness), but I
> have found this year that I have a tendency to remark on what someone
> did that
> made the story a hard sell for me and that I am writing the review
> because I
> think it is better than most for other reasons. I usually do not insert a
> negative point in a review purely out of constructive criticism (they have
> friends and Betas for that who share their world view, odd canon
> interpretationm
> right?), more self-defense (I must explain why I am giving this story
> points,
> when it turns on its head everything I love about x, y, or z). I do not
> want
> to give points to stories I dont like, but there are stories I like
> despite
> themselves! LOL I never thought this would be a problem, because I would
> never
> review a story I did not truly appreciate on a several different levels.
>
> **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
> Read reviews on AOL Autos.
> (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017
> <http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017>
> )
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
Msg# 9347
Re: Admin - Constructive Criticism vs. Negative Reviews Posted by heartofoshun@aol.com August 04, 2008 - 0:56:15 Topic ID# 9338I definitely think that I would be delicate with a complete stranger. Also,
like I said, I am reviewing stories that I love. I have raised discussion
points on canon also with people I know. Usually, in the case where it is not
entirely positive to say something along the line of: I never saw it that way,
but your story is convincing. (And I am also very conscious of points--I
won't spend 3-4 points on something along those lines unless I think it is a
great story.)
**************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
Read reviews on AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
like I said, I am reviewing stories that I love. I have raised discussion
points on canon also with people I know. Usually, in the case where it is not
entirely positive to say something along the line of: I never saw it that way,
but your story is convincing. (And I am also very conscious of points--I
won't spend 3-4 points on something along those lines unless I think it is a
great story.)
**************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
Read reviews on AOL Autos.
(http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )
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