Yahoo Forum Archive

Hi Ainae,

When we're contacting authors to see where they want to categorize their story, could we
maybe ask them to verify their summaries? I've lifted a lot from the archives where the
stories are posted, but for shorter pieces collected several-to-one-story (such as
drabbles) there's not always a summary given by the author. And sometimes the
summaries are very brief followed by the challenge the story was written from, and I've
had to change it a bit so it will make sense to readers who don't follow a certain archive.

I think in most cases the author will approve the summary without much thought, but I
think they should have the write to edit it if they don't like it.

Marta

PS- Have you decided on what categories will be available next year? If so, can you get me
a list so I can begin working on a category guide?

Sorry I've been busy with computers and files that are 450MB in size.

That would be fine to ask them to very the summary. I'll prepare a form
letter, but anyone can always personalize it or add something as well.

As for the categories, you can see them in the Rules already. But here they
are:

1. (Topic) Races & Places
a. Men
b. Elves
c. Hobbits
*d. Dwarves
*e. Villains
*f. Cross-Cultural

2. (Topic) Genres
a. Humor
b. Adventure
c. Drama (includes Angst)
d. Romance
e. Horror
f. Mystery
g. Crossovers
*h. Alternate Universe
*i. Movie-verse
*j. Non-Fiction

3. (Topic) Time/Books
a. The Silmarillion
b. The Hobbit
c. The Lord of the Rings
*d. Post-Ring War

--Ainaechoiriel

MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards

Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marta [mailto:MartaL0712@netscape.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 10:48 PM
> To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [MEFAwards] a (possibly belated) suggestion
>
>
>
> Hi Ainae,
>
> When we're contacting authors to see where they want to
> categorize their story, could we maybe ask them to verify
> their summaries? I've lifted a lot from the archives where
> the stories are posted, but for shorter pieces collected
> several-to-one-story (such as
> drabbles) there's not always a summary given by the author.
> And sometimes the summaries are very brief followed by the
> challenge the story was written from, and I've had to change
> it a bit so it will make sense to readers who don't follow a
> certain archive.
>
> I think in most cases the author will approve the summary
> without much thought, but I think they should have the write
> to edit it if they don't like it.
>
> Marta
>
> PS- Have you decided on what categories will be available
> next year? If so, can you get me a list so I can begin
> working on a category guide?
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> --------------------~-->
> Has someone you know been affected by illness or disease?
> Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/rkgkPB/UOnJAA/Zx0JAA/wx3olB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ------~->
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "Ainaechoiriel" <mefaadmin@e...>
wrote:

> Sorry I've been busy with computers and files that are 450MB in

size.

>

Sorry to hear that you're so busy.

We have a month, so I don't think there's any huge hurry on this
stuff. But I did finish the categorization guide, which I'm including
in this post. I'm also emailing it to you as an attachment, for your
conveninece.

I think I'm ready to start working on FAQs. What would people like to
see explained more clearly? What was confusing last year?

Marta

*****

Categorization Guide

Authors whose stories are nominated for the 2005 Middle-earth
Fanfiction Awards must choose their first, second, and third choices
for the categories they want each piece to compete in. They also may
suggest a subcategory. (Some sub-categories are mandatory: drabbles,
poetry, and WIP.)

The first, second, and third prize awards are given out to the works
with the most votes in each category. They do not necessarily have to
be about the theme of the award. For example, a piece about Feanor
could win "The Ainulindale Award" (1st place, Silmarillion), even
though Feanor's story occurs after the events described in the
<i>Ainulindale</i>.

In many cases the same story will fit in several categories; in this
case authors are asked to choose the category they think is the
<b>best</b> fit.

CATEGORIES

1. Races & Places

Works in the "Races & Places" category should be noteworthy in their
focus on the characteristics and culture of a certain race (or
multiple race).

A. Men - Stories in this category should be about one or more Men
(either male or female), or give some insight to one or more of the
Mannish cultures.

1st: The Faithful of Numenor Award
2nd: The Kings of Gondor and Arnor Award
3rd: The Ruling Stewards Award

B. Elves - Stories in this category should be about one or more Elves
or Half-elves, or give some insight to one or more of the Elvish
cultures.

1st: The Lothlorien Awards
2nd: The Imladris Awards
3rd: The Grey Havens Awards

C. Hobbits - Stories in this category should be about one or more
Hobbits, or give some insight to one or more of the Elvish cultures.

1st: The Ring-bearer of Bag End Award
2nd: The Master of Buckland Award
3rd: The Thain of the Great Smials Award

D. Dwarves - Stories in this category should be about one or more
Dwarves, or give some insight into one or more of the Dwarvish
cultures.

[prizes to be determined]

E. Villains - Stories in this category should be about one or more of
the various traitors to the Valar, or the people allied to these
traitors. This would include Morgoth, Sauron, the Nazgul, Orcs,
balrogs, wargs, trolls, evil men (such as Haradrim and the Corsairs),
and traitors within the other races (such as Saruman or Grima
Wormtongue). Pieces that give some insight into the peoples allied to
Morgoth or Sauron also fit well in this category.

[prizes to be determined]

F. Cross-cultural - Stories in this category should feature equally
characters from various races - for example, about the relationship
between Legolas and Gimli or about the fellowship as a whole. Pieces
about a member of one race reflecting on another race also might do
well here -- for example, Elrond trying to explain about death to one
of Isildur's heirs.

[prizes to be determined]




2. Genres

Works in the Genres division are noteworthy because of their dramatic
conflicts, or use of mystery, or some other such genre-specific
quality.

A. Humour - Stories in this category should have humour as a primary
ingredient. They may either portray a humorous situation native to
Middle-earth, or may be a parody.

1st: The Tom Bombadil Award
2nd: The Bilbo Baggins Award
3rd: The Barliman Butterbur Award

B. Adventure - Stories in this category should feature action as a
primary ingredient - for example, an adventure or a battle sequence.

1st: The Battle of the Black Gate Award
2nd: The Battle of the Pelennor Fields Award
3rd: The Battle of Helm's Deep Award

C. Drama - Stories in this category should feature a dramatic conflict
as a primary ingredient. Stories about conversations or interactions
between two characters (of any race), or about political or social
ceremonies usually fit well in this category.

1st: The Turin Turambar Award
2nd: The Frodo Baggins Award
3rd: The Nimrodel and Amroth Award

D. Romance - Stories in this category should feature at least one
romantic relationship, either same-sex (slash or femslash) or
different-sex (het), as a key ingredient.

1st: The Beren and Luthien Award
2nd: The Tuor and Idril Award
3rd: The Nimrodel and Amroth Award

E. Horror - Stories in this category should feature horror as a key
ingredient.

1st: The Morgoth Bauglir Award
2nd: The Eye of Sauron Award
3rd: The Witch-king of Angmar Award

F. Mystery - Stories in this category should feature mystery or
suspense as a key ingredient. Pieces where the plot involves the
discovery of some previously unknown fact might fit in this category.

1st: The Shadows of Cuivienen Award
2nd: The Barrow-wights Award
3rd: The Pukel-men Award

G. Crossover - Stories in this category should draw both from
Tolkien's books (or Jackson's movies) and some other fandom.

1st: The Pirates of the Caribbean Award
2nd: The Hidalgo Award
3rd: The Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade Award

H. Alternative Universe - For the purpose of the Middle-earth
Fanfiction Awards, an alternative universe piece is one that deviates
from its source material (whether the books or movies in some
important respect.) For example, a story where Boromir survives the
Ring War, or where Frodo does not sail West, might compete in this
category. AUs are also eligible in other categories if an author
believes they fit them better.

[awards to be determined]

I. Movieverse - Stories based on Peter Jackson's movies in addition to
or instead of Tolkien's books are eligible for any other appropriate
category. However, some pieces are more about the movies' version of
events or explain some difference between movieverse and bookverse.
Pieces in this category should be based primarily on the movies'
version of events (though they may draw some inspiration from the
books), and they should offer some new insight into the movies.

[prizes to be determined]

J. Nonfiction - Pieces in this category should be non-fiction of
fictions. Argumentative or speculative essays, research articles,
reviews on the books might be placed here. Analyses of fandom trends
or essays on likely historical models for fanfic might compete here as
well.

[prizes to be determined]




TIMES/BOOKS

Works in the Time/Books division give some new insight to the events
described in canon (books or movies) -- perhaps a gapfiller or a new
perspective on an event portrayed in canon, or a story about the lives
of the characters before or after the canonical events.

A. Silmarillion - Pieces in this category should be about events
described in <i>The Silmarillion</i> and tolkien's other posthumous
events -- set in the Age of the Trees, the First Age, the Second Age,
and the earlier parts of the Third Age.

1st: The Ainulindale Award
2nd: The Valaquenta Award
3rd: The Akallabeth Award

B. <i>The Hobbit Award</i> - Pieces in this category should be about
the events of <i>The Hobbit</i>, or in "The Quest for Erebor" (in
<i>Unfinished Tales</i>). Stories about the White Council and the
driving of Sauron from Dol Guldur also fit well here, as do stories
about the lives of <i>The Hobbit</i>'s principle characters before or
after the Quest for Erebor.

1st: The Shire Award
2nd: The Mirkwood Award
3rd: The Lonely Mountain Award

C. <i>The Lord of the Rings</i> - Pieces in this category should be
about the events of <i>The Lord of the Rings</i>, or about events
happening in other regions of Middle-earth during the same time (such
as the assaults on Lothlorien or the death of Dain). Events in the
lands mentioned in LotR before the Ring War (i.e., Grima's rise to
power) or about the characters of LotR before the events in the books
might also fit well here.

1st: The Fellowship of the Ring
2nd: The Two Towers
3rd: The Return of the King

D. The Post-Ring War Awards - Pieces in this category should focus on
events after <i>The Lord of the Rings</i>, through the present day.

[awards to be determined]



*****

SUB-CATEGORIZATION

There are three <b>mandatory</b> subcategories: drabble, poetry, and
work-in-progress. If your work is one of these three types, then you
<b>must</b> mention this as a subcategory.

Some reminders:

* A drabble is exactly one hundred words (not counting the title,
which is allowed up to seven additional words. Variations of this form
(double drabbles, triple drabbles, and drabble series, for instance)
should run in the drabble subcategory.

* All verse, even if it does not fit one of the classic poetic forms,
should be entered under the poetry subcategory. This includes filks
and free verse.

* Works-in-progress must have been updated within twelve months of the
end of nomination season (April 1, 2005). Furthermore, any piece can
only run once as a WIP. If a WIP was nominated in 2004, it is
ineligible to compete in 2005.

Beyond that... you may suggest any subcategory you like. Some
suggestions:

* Length - If your prose piece is a vignette (a single scene usually
less than 5,000 words) or a novella (a longer piece, usually longer
than 50,000 words) and you would like it to compete against other
similar works, feel free to suggest this as a subcategory.
* Location - If your piece is set in a certain region or kingdom, you
can suggest this as a subcategory.
* Time Frame - Last year, many of the "Races & Places" categories had
"pre-Quest" or "post-Quest" subcategories. Silmarillion also had
"First Age" and "Second Age" subcategories. If you're interested in
your piece competing in such a subcategory, please note it.
* Sub-genre - For example, if your drama piece is also an angst piece
and you would be interested in in running against other angst pieces,
note it.
* Key character or pairing - if your piece focuses on a certain
character, feel free to note that as a possible subcategory.

Basically, you can suggest any subcategory you like, and you can
suggest as many as you like per story. Not all subcategories will be
viable, and each piece can only compete in one subcategory. But the
categorizers will decide which subcategories to actually use and which
stories will compete in them.

Hello all,

I have a working demo. As of right now, I believe it has everything
required to do nominations and voting for stories and authors for this
year.

I need some testers/reviewers.

Will anyone who is interested please visit the demo at:

http://holder.dyndns.org/ctpro.

and tell me what you think.

It's being served on a 1999 vintage iMac G3/400 MHz at my house through
DSL, so it's not a real server, but it seems to do the job. (MacOS X is
great!) If it is not available, send me an email (or AIM me,
awh142857), and I'll check to be sure it didn't get put to sleep.

Please read the FAQ, but here are a few things you should know, which
may not be there:

1) It is not done. There are still some instructions to write, and
plenty of code to write (such as pages for viewing results, but I don't
need those until October). Please email me privately with questions
about problems with the site, or things you don't understand, or
suggestions. I'll compile answers into the FAQ that is already on the
site.

2) Feel free to edit anything you can edit, and let me know if anything
doesn't edit correctly. I especially need to know about data entry
errors, where you did something and the system didn't get it right!

3) Since voting is limited to members of MEFA, you can't create your
own accounts. Some 'dummy' accounts have been created. You can login
using any of these accounts and nominate stories and enter reviews of
other peoples' stories. A list of accounts and passwords is available
at the end of this email. Please try to spread them out, so we have
stories written and nominated by more than just the first dummy user.
Eventually, we'll give everybody a real account. Don't spend much time
adding real stories, because they'll have to be deleted.

4) There is an admin interface. I'll ask Ainae for who should be sent
that password for review.

5) The site has a built-in schedule (which the admins can change). For
this demo:
Nomination Season closes Tuesday at midnight CST
Check ballots is Wednesday the 9th
Voting starts Thursday the 10th at midnight and runs till the end of
the month.
I need to make a 'schedule' page to show what the system is scheduled
to do and when.

6) Depending on what season it is, different actions are possible. For
eample, after nominating season, the 'submit story' link disappears.
Also, author reviews can't be entered until the end of 'check ballots'
season, because the system doesn't know the award category until that
time. There's a list of active seasons at the top, abbreviated, but you
can probably figure out what they are.

7) For the demo, unless Ainae wants to assign the stories to different
categories on Wednesday, they will all be assigned to their first
suggested category.

8) A review for a story will follow the story even if it gets moved
from one category to another.


Once I've gotten some comments, and had a bit more chance to QC things,
I'll want to run a test. We'll try to enter all the stories from one or
more voting categories from the 2004 awards, and then enter all the
reviews. Right now, the counting should basically follow the 2004 rules
(except for the whitelist of allowed characters, which MEFA members
will need to confirm), so the scores should add up the same, or be
pretty close. We'll check to be sure that they work.

User/Pass for dummy accounts:

AnyMember/AnyMember
NoName/NoName
NoName2/NoName2
nn3/ppnn3
nn4/ppnn4
nn5/ppnn5
nn6/ppnn6
nn7/ppnn7
nn8/ppnn8
nn9/ppnn9
nn10/pnn10
Guest/Guest * Special User, see FAQ

In a message dated 2/7/2005 6:37:14 PM Pacific Standard Time,
MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com writes:
8) A review for a story will follow the story even if it gets moved
from one category to another.
Wow, I'm impressed and you say it's not even finished yet!

Lin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I was impressed to, and nominated a fake story and left a fake review. I
think this will be great.

Of course, this means our Rules will change to reflect this system. I'll
have to try and remember how.


Tomorrow I'll try to catch up with all the suggested titles and see where we
are, maybe posts some polls and what-not.

I've been in some sort of e-mail funk lately. Just reluctant to go there
for some weird stress-damaged-brain reason that I can't quite fathom.

--Ainaechoiriel

MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards

Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: bljean@aol.com [mailto:bljean@aol.com]
> Sent: Monday, February 07, 2005 8:49 PM
> To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MEFAwards]Demo site
>
>
> In a message dated 2/7/2005 6:37:14 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com writes:
> 8) A review for a story will follow the story even if it gets
> moved from one category to another.
> Wow, I'm impressed and you say it's not even finished yet!
>
> Lin
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> --------------------~--> Meet the McDonald?s. Lincoln Fry
> get free digital souvenirs, Web-only video and bid on the
> Lincoln Fry prop charity auction.
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/RUJaMB/fV0JAA/Zx0JAA/wx3olB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ------~->
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Holder <aaholder@s...>
wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I have a working demo. As of right now, I believe it has everything
> required to do nominations and voting for stories and authors for

this

> year.
>

Anthony, this is really wonderful. I'm impressed.

I was using Opera 7.54 in Apple OS X, FYI. Here's some of the actions
I did (all without error):

1. Log in under nn6
2. Nominate story by nn6.
3. Vote for said story.
4. Nominate second story by a different author (Ainae).
5. Create author ID "Marta".
6. Change author of seconds tory (originally by Ainae) to Marta
7. Nominate third story by Marta.
8. Log out.

As I said, I think it's great. But that doesn't mean I don't have
quibbles, namely:

1. Actions List (http://holder.dyndns.org/ctpro/index.php?page=index)
-- Maybe add "Add an Author" and possibly even "Add an Author Group"
here?

2. Story Type (on the nomination form) -- change "Story" to "Other",
or else add "Nonfiction", to cover essays?

3. Categories (again, on the nom form) -- right now there's a partial
list, with several subcategories. I suggest listing all the *main*
categories (available, among other places, at http://groups.yahoo.com/
group/MEFAwards/message/3416), and forgoing the drabble/poem/WIP
distinction there - they'll already be selecting that anyway, under
"Story Type".

Also, it was my understanding of the rules that the authors, not the
nominators, choose categories. I'm not sure whether Ainae wants to
change the rules, or if you have an idea how to approach this problem.
Presently, I can see two options, one more work-intensive for the
awards admins and one more work-intensive for you.

Solution 1:

a: Nominator nominates piece. There is no suggested category field on
the nomination form.
b: Admin emails author asking s/he to select category choices and
reply back to the admin with them.
c: Admin logs into website and enters categories into the system.

Solution 2:

a: Nominator nominates piece. There is no suggested category field on
the nomination form.
b: Automated email is sent to author, alerting them that their story
has been nominated, including a password to log into the website.
c: Author logs in and selects categories.

4. Posting votes to MEFAwards. As it's set up now, I think all votes
made during reading season are posted to the list on the second day.
Is there a way to spread this out, so that votes in 1/4 of categories
are posted first day of voting, second 1/4 a week later, and so on?

I think that's it. I'm a beta tester for henneth-annun.net/, so I am
used to thinking about stuff like this. If I can help in any other
way, or if I haven't been clear, please let me know.

Marta

> I need some testers/reviewers.
>
> Will anyone who is interested please visit the demo at:
> .
> http://holder.dyndns.org/ctpro.
>
> and tell me what you think.
>
> It's being served on a 1999 vintage iMac G3/400 MHz at my house

through

> DSL, so it's not a real server, but it seems to do the job. (MacOS X

is

> great!) If it is not available, send me an email (or AIM me,
> awh142857), and I'll check to be sure it didn't get put to sleep.
>
> Please read the FAQ, but here are a few things you should know,

which

> may not be there:
>
> 1) It is not done. There are still some instructions to write, and
> plenty of code to write (such as pages for viewing results, but I

don't

> need those until October). Please email me privately with questions
> about problems with the site, or things you don't understand, or
> suggestions. I'll compile answers into the FAQ that is already on

the

> site.
>
> 2) Feel free to edit anything you can edit, and let me know if

anything

> doesn't edit correctly. I especially need to know about data entry
> errors, where you did something and the system didn't get it right!
>
> 3) Since voting is limited to members of MEFA, you can't create your
> own accounts. Some 'dummy' accounts have been created. You can login
> using any of these accounts and nominate stories and enter reviews

of

> other peoples' stories. A list of accounts and passwords is

available

> at the end of this email. Please try to spread them out, so we have
> stories written and nominated by more than just the first dummy

user.

> Eventually, we'll give everybody a real account. Don't spend much

time

> adding real stories, because they'll have to be deleted.
>
> 4) There is an admin interface. I'll ask Ainae for who should be

sent

> that password for review.
>
> 5) The site has a built-in schedule (which the admins can change).

For

> this demo:
> Nomination Season closes Tuesday at midnight CST
> Check ballots is Wednesday the 9th
> Voting starts Thursday the 10th at midnight and runs till the end of
> the month.
> I need to make a 'schedule' page to show what the system is

scheduled

> to do and when.
>
> 6) Depending on what season it is, different actions are possible.

For

> eample, after nominating season, the 'submit story' link disappears.
> Also, author reviews can't be entered until the end of 'check

ballots'

> season, because the system doesn't know the award category until

that

> time. There's a list of active seasons at the top, abbreviated, but

you

> can probably figure out what they are.
>
> 7) For the demo, unless Ainae wants to assign the stories to

different

> categories on Wednesday, they will all be assigned to their first
> suggested category.
>
> 8) A review for a story will follow the story even if it gets moved
> from one category to another.
>
>
> Once I've gotten some comments, and had a bit more chance to QC

things,

> I'll want to run a test. We'll try to enter all the stories from one

or

> more voting categories from the 2004 awards, and then enter all the
> reviews. Right now, the counting should basically follow the 2004

rules

> (except for the whitelist of allowed characters, which MEFA members
> will need to confirm), so the scores should add up the same, or be
> pretty close. We'll check to be sure that they work.
>
> User/Pass for dummy accounts:
>
> AnyMember/AnyMember
> NoName/NoName
> NoName2/NoName2
> nn3/ppnn3
> nn4/ppnn4
> nn5/ppnn5
> nn6/ppnn6
> nn7/ppnn7
> nn8/ppnn8
> nn9/ppnn9
> nn10/pnn10
> Guest/Guest * Special User, see FAQ

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marta [mailto:MartaL0712@netscape.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2005 8:36 AM
> To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [MEFAwards] Re: 2005 Voting Website Demo
>

> Anthony, this is really wonderful. I'm impressed.
>
> I was using Opera 7.54 in Apple OS X, FYI. Here's some of the
> actions I did (all without error):
>
> As I said, I think it's great. But that doesn't mean I don't
> have quibbles, namely:

>
> 1. Actions List (http://holder.dyndns.org/ctpro/index.php?page=index)
> -- Maybe add "Add an Author" and possibly even "Add an Author Group"
> here?

> 2. Story Type (on the nomination form) -- change "Story" to
> "Other", or else add "Nonfiction", to cover essays?

> 3. Categories (again, on the nom form) -- right now there's a
> partial list, with several subcategories. I suggest listing
> all the *main* categories (available, among other places, at
> http://groups.yahoo.com/ group/MEFAwards/message/3416), and
> forgoing the drabble/poem/WIP distinction there - they'll
> already be selecting that anyway, under "Story Type".
>
> Also, it was my understanding of the rules that the authors,
> not the nominators, choose categories. I'm not sure whether
> Ainae wants to change the rules, or if you have an idea how
> to approach this problem.
> Presently, I can see two options, one more work-intensive for
> the awards admins and one more work-intensive for you.
>
> Solution 1:
>
> a: Nominator nominates piece. There is no suggested category
> field on the nomination form.
> b: Admin emails author asking s/he to select category choices
> and reply back to the admin with them.
> c: Admin logs into website and enters categories into the system.
>
> Solution 2:
>
> a: Nominator nominates piece. There is no suggested category
> field on the nomination form.
> b: Automated email is sent to author, alerting them that
> their story has been nominated, including a password to log
> into the website.
> c: Author logs in and selects categories.

I think the best solution is closer to #2, but not all Authors will log in.

Just remember this is a demo and it will have some tweaks after we test how
it works. Like finalizing the forms. I already mentioned to Anthony about
authors making category decisions. I think what would be best with that is
Authors, Admin, and Author Contactors (if we can have groups for admin
access) have access to edit categories. Authors because they can set their
own. Admin and Author Contactors because not all authors may come to the
web site and log in. They may simply reply by e-mail and we'd have to put
the categories in there for.

I'd like an automated message to the authors to be including more than a
password. I want to do it a bit more like we did last year. More personal
(it can still be a form letter automated by the system). It should mention
what story was nominated and ask them what 3 choices of categories they
want, list the categores, show them th summary and ask them to make sure
it's accurate, and ask them how they would like to describe the length (with
suggestions shown). I can help write this, of course.

Marta, you were going to write up some more for the FAQ, and that can be put
on the web site, too, I believe.

> 4. Posting votes to MEFAwards. As it's set up now, I think
> all votes made during reading season are posted to the list
> on the second day.
> Is there a way to spread this out, so that votes in 1/4 of
> categories are posted first day of voting, second 1/4 a week
> later, and so on?

I don't quite understand. Are we talking about the testing schedule? I'm
just confused. If we are talking about the real one, I don't want any
reviews posted to the list until Voting Season.

> I think that's it. I'm a beta tester for henneth-annun.net/,
> so I am used to thinking about stuff like this. If I can help
> in any other way, or if I haven't been clear, please let me know.

Any other comments, I'll leave to Anthony. My brain is much right now.

--Ainaechoiriel

MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards

Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marta [mailto:MartaL0712@netscape.net]
> Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 1:32 PM
> To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [MEFAwards] Re: New Categories and Awards Titles (several)
>
>
>
> (quotes are from Elana...)
>
> [Dwarves]
> > If not places, which would be good, how about famous dwarves:
> >
> > 1) The Durin the Deathless Award
> > 2) The Thorin Oakenshield Award
> > 3) The Gimli Son of Gloin Award
> >
> > Which is also one from the Silm, more or less, one from The Hobbit,
> > and one from LOTR
> >
>
> Those would be good categories. But is there any art of
> Thorin? I don't even remember that many book illustrations of
> Thorin specifically, and while I haven't seen all the fanart
> available by any means, I can't remember *any* with him. (I
> guess there might be the same problem for Durin, but I think
> you could use art of Moria for those banners, not just of
> Durin himself.)
>
> Maybe we could broaden the second award to include *all* of
> The Hobbit dwarves? Maybe, "The Thorin Oakenshield and
> Company Award" or something like that? I can think of some
> nice bookart with the whole company of Dwarves, and you could
> use movie shots from the Council scene, since I guess at
> least one of those dwarves is supposed to be Gloin.

Remember that art such as that may be copyrighted. I will say again here
for everyone's benefit, the MEFAs will not be held responsible for not
having permission for someone's art. The person submitting the banner that
uses said art should make sure they are free to do so. If it is submitted,
I will assume that it is. That's one reason I used screencaps for most of
mine. If I capture them or scan them, mix them, etc., they're good. Other
options for people is to draw their own. Just don't go using Alan Lee's
drawings, for example, without making sure you're not breaking any laws or
likely to get us sued.

>
> [Cross-cultural]
> > If we don't use Luthien and Beren in Romance, they could
> also fit in
> > here.
> >
>
> That would be a good one for here. Or even Thingol and Melian?

I added them to both Cross-Cultural and Romance. ;-) Suggestions, of
course. Nothing final yet.

> [Romance]
> > I like
> > 1) Arwen and Aragorn
> > 2) Faramir and Eowyn
> > 3) Sam and Rosie
> >
> >
>
> Of course I like those myself (having suggested them...) but
> I understand that some people have objections. I suggested
> these three names for two reasons:
>
> 1. More people have read _The Lord of the Rings_ than _The
> Silmarillion_. (There aren't any romances in _The Hobbit_, at
> least not that I can remember offhand.) So I think more
> people will be familiar with those couples than are familiar
> with Beren/Luthien and Tuor/Idril.
>
> 2. Of the stories entered this year, I'm almost certain there
> weren't any Tuor/Idril ones, and I don't think there were any
> Beren/Luthien ones either, or at least not very many. On the
> other hand, Faramir/Eowyn was its own subcategory, and there
> was also a Hobbits one. (I know, not exclusively
> Sam/Rosie...) It makes sense to honour these popular pairings
> with an award themed to them.

Remember that the titles don't need to reflect the stories, but the
category. And Tuor and Idril and Luthien and Beren certainly did that, even
if there were no stories about them.

> I wasn't trying to comment on the importance in canon of one
> pairing over another... more on their relative popularity in
> the fandom. And I'm hardly impartial! As I've said, before I
> don't care much for Elves, and until recently I didn't read
> Silmfics at all. So I'm not that familiar with who gets a lot
> written about them and who doesn't.

Don't care much for Elves? What's wrong with you woman?! ;-)

>
> [Movie-verse]
> > I still like
> > 1) Arwen at the Fords
> > 2) Elves at Helms Deep
> > 3) Going to Osgiliath
> >
> > If we really wanted one from each movie, we could use "Sam, Go
> Home."
> > But then we'd have to choose from Elves at Helms Deep and Goining
> to
> > Osgiliath for TTT, and both of those are more significant
> changes to
> > the plot, to me.
> >
>
> I see what you're saying, an I don't have any major
> objections to that. Is there any way to phrase the last one
> so it applies to all the changes in Osgiliath from
> book-verse, both in TTT and ROTK.
> Perhaps "The 'Osgiliath is Overrun' Award"?
>

I think there are going to be a LOT of polls. I'm trying to figure how to do
this with the fewest polls possible, but I'm just not sure.

--Ainaechoiriel

MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards

Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com

Here's teh list we have so far, this does not include "leave them as they
are". They are in no particular order. Categories are marked with * so
they're easier to see:

*Horror
Shelob's Lair
Mines of Moria
Paths of the Dead
Dead Marshes
King of the Dead
Houseless Ones
Balrog

*Villains
Eye of Sauron
Wolves of Isengard
Balrog of Morgoth

Palantir (? where did we put this one?)

*Dwarves
Khazad-Dum
Aglarond
Lonely Mountain
Erebor
The Iron Hills
Blue Mountains
Belegost
Nogrod
Menegroth
Nargothrond
Thranduil's halls
Mount Gundabad
The Thorin Oakenshield and Company Award
1) The Durin the Deathless Award
2) The Thorin Oakenshield Award
3) The Gimli Son of Gloin Award

*Men
1) The Numenor Award
2) The Gondor and Arnor Award
3) The Riddermark Award
Or even:
1) The Gondor Award
2) The Riddermark Award
3) The Harad Award

*Elves
1) The Galadriel Award
2) The Elrond Half-elven Award
3) The Cirdan Award

*The Hobbit
Smaug
Laketown
Beorn's House
The Misty Mountains

*Hobbits
The Thain of the Great Smials
order: Thain, Master, Mayor

*Cross-Cultural
1) The Legolas and Gimli Award
2) The Gandalf and Bilbo Award
3) The Merry and Eowyn Award (or possibly the Pippin and Beregond award)
Thingol and Melian
Beren and Luthien

*Humor
1. The Merry and Pippin Award
2. The Ents of Fangorn Award
3. The Gimli son of Gloin Award

*Romance
1st: The Aragorn and Arwen Award
2nd: The Faramir and Eowyn Award
3rd: The Sam and Rosie Award
Thingol and Melian

*Mystery
Dead Marshes
1) The Entwives Award
2) The Palantiri Award
3) The Pukel-men Award

*Crossover
Troy
X-Men
Van Helsing
Moulin Rouge
Kingdom of Heaven
National Treasure
Master and Commander

*Alternate Universe
1. The Boromir Lives Award
2. The Faramir Goes to Rivendell Award
3. The Frodo Dies in Mordor Award
Boromir Lives
Tenth Walker

*Movie-verse
(FotR) 1. The "Arwen Steals Asfaloth" Award
1. The "Let's Skip the Old Forest" Award
(TTT) 2. The "Elves at Helm's Deep" Award
2. The "evil!Faramir" Award
2. The "Aragorn Dies" Award
(RotK) *sigh*... entirely too many here...
1. The "Denethor's Missing Palantir" Award
2. The "Retaking Osgiliath" Award
3. The "Go Home, Sam" Award
4. The "Legolas vs. the Mumak" Award
5. The "Arwen Dies" Award
6. The "Merry at the Black Gate" Award
7. The "Scouring? What Scouring?" Award
Disappearance of the Grey Company
What happened to Halbarad?
1) Arwen at the Fords
2) Elves at Helms Deep
3) Going to Osgiliath
Osgiliath is Overrun

*Non-Fiction
Red Book of Westmarch
Translations from the Elvish
There and Back Again
The Library of Imladris Award
The Scrolls of Orthanc Award
The Archives of Minas Tirith Award

*Post-Ring War
1. The Shire Award
2. The Fangorn Award
3. The Druedain Forest Award
Or maybe three Elves that stayed into the Fourth Age?
1. The Celeborn Award
2. The Legolas Award
3. The Elrohir and Elladan Award
Or maybe three areas that saw piece in the Fourth Age?
1. The Ithilien Award
2. The Mordor Award
3. The Breeland Award
Or how about the *sons* of Aragorn, Faramir, and Eomer?
1. The Eldarion Award
2. The Elboron Award
3. The Elfwine Award

--Ainaechoiriel

MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

<http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa> http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The
Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards

Blog: <http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com/>
http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Ainae,

[snip]

> Just remember this is a demo and it will have some tweaks after we

test how

> it works. Like finalizing the forms.

Okay, I probably jumped the gun there. I wasn't sure how nit-picky I
should get this early done. (Though it's not *that* early. Will we
have time to finalize all this in the next three weeks?)

> I already mentioned to Anthony about
> authors making category decisions. I think what would be best with

that is

> Authors, Admin, and Author Contactors (if we can have groups for

admin

> access) have access to edit categories. Authors because they can set

their

> own. Admin and Author Contactors because not all authors may come

to the

> web site and log in. They may simply reply by e-mail and we'd have

to put

> the categories in there for.
>

That sounds good to me, if it's technically feasible. Is there a
reason you need separate groups for Admins and Author contactors? (I.
e., couldn't all author contactors just be authors?)

> I'd like an automated message to the authors to be including more

than a

> password. I want to do it a bit more like we did last year. More

personal

> (it can still be a form letter automated by the system). It should

mention

> what story was nominated and ask them what 3 choices of categories

they

> want, list the categores, show them th summary and ask them to make

sure

> it's accurate, and ask them how they would like to describe the

length (with

> suggestions shown). I can help write this, of course.
>

Sure. I meant that it should include a password for the author's
account, on top of whatever else we want to include -- not that it
should *just* include a password.

> Marta, you were going to write up some more for the FAQ, and that

can be put

> on the web site, too, I believe.
>

Yes, I'm planning on it. So far I've written one on how admins
categorize and subcategorize pieces, and a description of the
different available categories. I've also thought of writing one on
voting. Any other topics you want to see covered?

> > 4. Posting votes to MEFAwards. As it's set up now, I think
> > all votes made during reading season are posted to the list
> > on the second day.
> > Is there a way to spread this out, so that votes in 1/4 of
> > categories are posted first day of voting, second 1/4 a week
> > later, and so on?
>
> I don't quite understand. Are we talking about the testing

schedule? I'm

> just confused. If we are talking about the real one, I don't want

any

> reviews posted to the list until Voting Season.
>

I was referring to this section of the Demo FAQ:

*****

Reviewing Stories is allowed from the beginning of Nominations until
the end of Voting. Reviewers may mark their reviews as Draft,
Tentative, or Final. Draft Reviews will never be visible, except to
the reviewer and the admin, and will not count. Tentative reviews will
be converted to final at the end of Voting Season, and counted. Final
Reviews will be posted to the group when they become final or at the
beginning of Voting Season, whichever comes later.

Reviewing Authors is allowed from the end of Check Ballots until the
end of Voting. Reviewers may mark their reviews as Draft, Tentative,
or Final. Draft Reviews will never be visible, except to the reviewer
and the admin, and will not count. Tentative reviews will be converted
to final at the end of Voting Season, and counted. Final Reviews will
be posted to the group when they become final or at the beginning of
Voting Season, whichever comes later.

*****

As I understand it, this says the following:

1. Any member of MEFAwards can create a vote for any story (assuming
their not the author), at any point after it's nominated.

2. Any member of MEFAwards can create a vote for any author other than
themselves after nomination season closes.

3. Any vote that is submitted before voting season and marked "Final"
will be posted to MEFAwards on the first day of voting season.

4. Any vote that is submitted during voting season and marked "Final"
will be posted to MEFAwards when it is submitted.

My concern is (3). I'm envisioning a flood of votes on the first day
of voting season. My suggestion is that they be spread out somehow --
if a vote is made before voting season it is posted to MEFAwards on
some predetermined day during voting season. The exact date would
depend on the category; something like

Races & Places - post on the opening day of voting season or when the
vote is marked final, whichever is later.

Genres - post on the day falling one week after the opening day of
voting season or when vote is marked final, depending on whether vote
is cast during voting season or before.

Time/Source - post on the day falling two weeks after the opening day
of voting season or when vote is marked final, depending on whether
vote is cast during voting season or before.

The idea is to spread out the posting of votes made during reading
season more.

I have a massive head ache, so your other post will have to wait until
tomorrow or the day after. But I will get to it.

Marta
Marta

Hey all,

Thank you for checking out the site and making comments.

I have a few of my own. I've generally separated topics with a ---- at
the beginning of the section.

First, I can do quite a bit, but may not be able to do everything you
all want, due to time or knowhow. I'll certainly try, though.

Second, I don't mind nit-picking. That's actually the best way to get
things figured out, sometimes.

That said, I'll explain my point of view on a few things.

I thought that nominators could contact the authors and get permission
and ask about the suggested categories. Thus, I have a place in the
story nomination form to copy/paste the author's emails giving his
permission, and his suggested categories, for documentation purposes.

As the system stands, the nominator, author, and admins are allowed to
edit a given story. I guess I'm assuming that a nominator will leave
the suggested categories blank unless they have that email, and that
nominators are trusted to follow the rules.

Right now, I don't have a separate 'Author Contactor' type user with
special permissions. I can add it, but will have to edit the data entry
form in that case, if you want to disallow nominators from assigning
categories. I want to add Author Contactor in any case, so there's
something between a regular user and a full admin, but is there a
reason not to allow the nominator to do the leg work if they choose to
do so?

Also, when an author is created, they are a user, but at present, that
user is not listed as a MEFA Member, and cannot actually log in. I am
now allowing them to log in if they're an author, but not to do
anything except edit their stories (until they join MEFA, at which time
they will be converted to full members by the admin). This change is on
my development system and hasn't been uploaded to the demo site yet.

My understanding is that MEFA membership is determined by membership in
the Yahoo! group, and I am assuming that this voting site will
essentially have a reflection of the member list.

If I'm going to send an email to the authors when their stories are
nominated, I'll have to change it to select a random password, rather
than just putting Author in front of their name, which is a bit easy to
hack. I think I can figure this one out. I should be able to send an
email containing the information and some links to the MEFA sites. Just
let me know what the email should say. Should the email be sent to
every author, or just to authors that are new to the group? I'm hoping
you say everybody.

----
I put the 'add an author' where it is, because it is right next to the
pop-up menu with the full list of possible authors. I want people to
check the list before adding a new author, and this makes it pretty
easy to do. Anyway, you only really need to add an author when you're
trying to nominate a story. When you add an author, did you notice that
it takes you to the 'new story' page, with the author already filled
in. I felt this was a good design.

Remember that all the MEFA members will be added to the member list
before nomination season, and my understanding is that many of the
authors are already on that list.

----
Story Types, award categories, and suggested categories are something
that the admin can edit, and do not require any change to the code. I
thought about how to do the drabble/poem/vignette, and ended up with a
system that requires a bit of duplication. They have to be separate
voting categories, but to be able to sort by just those items, I needed
a separate field for story type. Also, there is a separate list of
suggested categories from final categories. If the admins choose, they
can eliminate all subcategories from the suggested categories (to avoid
confusion), and just assign them to the proper award category during
check ballots season. This is something that the admins can decide and
do without requiring any change to the system.

----
I haven't done any work at all on how to post the votes to the Yahoo!
group. I have some ideas, but am not sure yet. What I expect to do is
something like the following:

Create a separate page for the admins (or helpers) to be able to
manually post finalized reviews.

The page would be able to post reviews according to some grouping
mechanism. Either the three broad categories, as you have described
(Races/Places, Genres, Books/Time), or even by Main Category.

The page would tell the admin (or helper) when the last time reviews
for that category were posted, and how many reviews were ready to post.
After posting, the 'last posted' time would be updated, and the reviews
would be posted.

The reviews would probably be posted as a single email (or maybe one
per Main Category or subcategory, as desired). Some plain text/ascii
formatting would be required to indicate the story, author, and
reviewer, and then the actual review would be posted.

This will require some manual work, but I'd rather not automate that
process, as it requires something outside the web-based system, and I
think that this will work nicely. Of course, all the reviews will be
available on the website as soon as they are finalized, but may not be
posted for a day or two, waiting for the admin/helper.

Once we figure out how to do the posting (some combination of what I
can do and what you want me to do!), we'll update the FAQ to reflect
that, and explain the difference between availability on the website
and posting to the Yahoo! group.

Fortunately, this part doesn't have to be done until Voting season
starts, so I have a bit more time to work on it, unless you want to
start voting season earlier because the site is doing the counting and
sorting. (By the way, I can't remember what the new schedule is. Can
someone send it to me?)

----
Can someone take charge of deciding how to run a test? I want to do
one, using one or more categories from the 2004 awards, and having the
stories all nominated and all the reviews copied in. I'll clear all the
stories and reviews from the database before the test, and someone will
have to create all the required users (I may be able to open up
creating users to anybody for the testing, to make it easier). I need
someone to choose a category and make sure all the testers know which
data to enter, and what the results should be, etc.

Once the stories and reviews are entered, we'll see if the counting
matches the 2004 counts (accounting for minor differences due to the
whitelist).

Oh, and if there's anything that needs to be added or removed from the
whitelist, let me know.

Later,
Anthony

Due to technical difficulties, the Demo website is offline and will
remain so indefinitely.

Thanks,
Anthony

Hi Ainae,

Sorry I've taken a few days getting back to you. I seem to have
finally shaken my head cold, at least a bit, and so I can stare at a
computer screen long enough to answer this.

> > (quotes are from Elana...)
> >
> > [Dwarves]
> > > If not places, which would be good, how about famous dwarves:
> > >
> > > 1) The Durin the Deathless Award
> > > 2) The Thorin Oakenshield Award
> > > 3) The Gimli Son of Gloin Award
> > >
> > > Which is also one from the Silm, more or less, one from The

Hobbit,

> > > and one from LOTR
> > >
> >
> > Those would be good categories. But is there any art of
> > Thorin? I don't even remember that many book illustrations of
> > Thorin specifically, and while I haven't seen all the fanart
> > available by any means, I can't remember *any* with him. (I
> > guess there might be the same problem for Durin, but I think
> > you could use art of Moria for those banners, not just of
> > Durin himself.)
> >
> > Maybe we could broaden the second award to include *all* of
> > The Hobbit dwarves? Maybe, "The Thorin Oakenshield and
> > Company Award" or something like that? I can think of some
> > nice bookart with the whole company of Dwarves, and you could
> > use movie shots from the Council scene, since I guess at
> > least one of those dwarves is supposed to be Gloin.
>
> Remember that art such as that may be copyrighted. I will say again

here

> for everyone's benefit, the MEFAs will not be held responsible for

not

> having permission for someone's art. The person submitting the

banner that

> uses said art should make sure they are free to do so. If it is

submitted,

> I will assume that it is. That's one reason I used screencaps for

most of

> mine. If I capture them or scan them, mix them, etc., they're good.

Other

> options for people is to draw their own. Just don't go using Alan

Lee's

> drawings, for example, without making sure you're not breaking any

laws or

> likely to get us sued.
>

Thanks for re-iterating that. (As the *cause* for this particular
rule, I don't think you can repeat it too often! I'm still embarrassed
at having used someone else's fanart without thinking to ask for
permission. *blushes*)

I'm not that familiar with fanart. *Are* there any pictures of just
Thorin out there? (You'd certainly need to get permission, but I think
most fan-artists are more approachable than professional illustrators.
) And like I said, you could use screencaps from the Council of Elrond
of the dwarf-extras (one of them *has* to be Gloin ;-) )

This is the last I'll say on this subject - it's really not that
important. But what about the Khazad-dum / Erebor / Aglarond scheme?
Maybe we should do a poll on whether the Dwarves awards names should
come from Dwarven homelands, or famous dwarves?

> > [Cross-cultural]

<snip>

> > [Romance]
> > > I like
> > > 1) Arwen and Aragorn
> > > 2) Faramir and Eowyn
> > > 3) Sam and Rosie
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Of course I like those myself (having suggested them...) but
> > I understand that some people have objections. I suggested
> > these three names for two reasons:
> >
> > 1. More people have read _The Lord of the Rings_ than _The
> > Silmarillion_. (There aren't any romances in _The Hobbit_, at
> > least not that I can remember offhand.) So I think more
> > people will be familiar with those couples than are familiar
> > with Beren/Luthien and Tuor/Idril.
> >
> > 2. Of the stories entered this year, I'm almost certain there
> > weren't any Tuor/Idril ones, and I don't think there were any
> > Beren/Luthien ones either, or at least not very many. On the
> > other hand, Faramir/Eowyn was its own subcategory, and there
> > was also a Hobbits one. (I know, not exclusively
> > Sam/Rosie...) It makes sense to honour these popular pairings
> > with an award themed to them.
>
> Remember that the titles don't need to reflect the stories, but the
> category. And Tuor and Idril and Luthien and Beren certainly did

that, even

> if there were no stories about them.
>

I understand what you're saying -- but I think they should be what
most people think of when they think of this category. I've admitted
to being a total Silm-phobic (although I did write my first Silm poem
last night *sigh* - damn pesky muses, the type of story I won't write
is ever-shrinking.)

Sorry, got distracted there. I was saying I don't think in Silm terms,
and the first time I read those categories I actually had to think for
quite a few seconds

Anyway, this is another one of those things I'm not going to fight you
on. I've tried to explain my reasoning as best I can, and I think some
people have commented both for and against it. Maybe this should be
the subject of another poll? Give people two choices - Elf-man couples
or my suggestions - and whichever wins is the scheme we go with. That
is, unless this is one of your non-negotiables.

> > I wasn't trying to comment on the importance in canon of one
> > pairing over another... more on their relative popularity in
> > the fandom. And I'm hardly impartial! As I've said, before I
> > don't care much for Elves, and until recently I didn't read
> > Silmfics at all. So I'm not that familiar with who gets a lot
> > written about them and who doesn't.
>
> Don't care much for Elves? What's wrong with you woman?! ;-)
>

I honestly don't know why. I guess Men just seems so much more dynamic
to me. Plus Men, for all the intricacies of their culture, seem less
enigmatic to me than elves. So many elves are just mentioned in
passing, and aren't really developed in the same way Men are.

> > [Movie-verse]
> > > I still like
> > > 1) Arwen at the Fords
> > > 2) Elves at Helms Deep
> > > 3) Going to Osgiliath
> > >
> > > If we really wanted one from each movie, we could use "Sam, Go
> > Home."
> > > But then we'd have to choose from Elves at Helms Deep and

Goining

> > to
> > > Osgiliath for TTT, and both of those are more significant
> > changes to
> > > the plot, to me.
> > >
> >
> > I see what you're saying, an I don't have any major
> > objections to that. Is there any way to phrase the last one
> > so it applies to all the changes in Osgiliath from
> > book-verse, both in TTT and ROTK.
> > Perhaps "The 'Osgiliath is Overrun' Award"?
> >
>
> I think there are going to be a LOT of polls. I'm trying to figure

how to do

> this with the fewest polls possible, but I'm just not sure.
>

I don't know whether we really need a poll on this one. I think most
people who have commented like those three.

But you're right, we probably *will* need a lot of polls.

Marta

Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
MEFAwards group:

Horror Awards titles. Choose three, one
for each place. Think of the three as a
group, compatible titles. Only three!
If you choose more than three, all your
votes may be disqualified.

o The Shelob's Lair Award
o The Mines of Moria Award
o The Paths of the Dead Award
o The Dead Marshes Award
o The King of the Dead Award
o The Houseless Ones Award
o The Balrog of Morgoth Award
o The Houseless Ones Award
o 1st: Keep 2004 Title (Morgoth Bauglir)
o 2nd: Keep 2004 Title (Eye of Sauron)
o 3rd: Keep 2004 Title (The Witch King)
o No opinion on Any


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/surveys?id=1662417

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
MEFAwards group:

Villains Awards titles. Choose the
order. Only 3 suggestions were given.

o 1st: The Eye of Sauron Award
o 2nd: The Eye of Sauron Award
o 3rd: The Eye of Sauron Award
o 1st: The Wolves of Isengard Award
o 2nd: The Wolves of Isengard Award
o 3rd: The Wolves of Isengard Award
o 1st: The Balrog of Morgoth Award
o 2nd: The Balrog of Morgoth Award
o 3rd: The Balrog of Morgoth Award
o No opinion on any


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/surveys?id=1662427

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

Dang Yahoo! I just finished this really long post and clicked Send
only to have it give me a Page Not Found and drop the whole thing!

So here we go again, in truncated fashion:

Some things to remember when voting:

1) Where you vote on which titles to use: Vote for three and only
three.

2) Think of them as a group. Ex. Presently, Romance has 3 main
Elf/Man unions. If that's to change, make the three new titles
compatible with each other, such as the main unions in LOTR.

3) Where there are three or less suggestions, vote for the order.

4) If a suggestion doesn't appear under a category, it may be that it
was suggested for a category with only three suggestions, therefore,
it's guaranteed a spot there. There can be no duplicates.

5) There can be no ties. Ties will be broken in a run-off. If still
tied, it may come down to a coin toss.

6) Do not vote for more than three titles. If you do, all your votes
for that category will be disqualified.

7) Vote! Don't let a few members decide everything for the many
members.

--Ainaechoiriel

Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
MEFAwards group:

Dwarves Awards titles. Choose three,
one for each place. Think of the three
as a group, compatible titles. Only
three! If you choose more than three,
all your votes may be disqualified.

o The Erebor Award
o The Iron Hills Award
o The Blue Mountains Award
o The Belegost Award
o The Nogrod Award
o The Menegroth Award
o The Nargothrond Award
o The (Thranduil's Halls--We will find the Elven name for them) Award
o The Mount Gundabad Award
o The Thorin Okinshield Award
o The Durin the Deathless Award
o The Gimli, Son of Gloin Award
o No opinion on any


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/surveys?id=1662503

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
MEFAwards group:

Men Awards titles. Choose three, one
for each place. Think of the three as a
group, compatible titles. Only three!
If you choose more than three, all your
votes may be disqualified.

o The Numenoor Award
o The Gondor and Arnor Award
o The Riddermark Award
o The Gondor Award
o The Harad Award
o 1st: Keep 2004 Title (Faithful of Numenor)
o 2nd: Keep 2004 Title (Kings of Gondor and Arnor)
o 3rd: Keep 2004 Title (Ruling Stewards)
o No opinion on any


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/surveys?id=1662513

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

Forgot one:

8) Titles have to do with the category, not the stories that will win
(because we don't know those)! So, for example, a Sam/Rose romance
could win The Aragorn and Arwen Award for romance.

--Ainaechoiriel

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "ainaechoiriel" <mefaadmin@e...>
wrote:

>
> Dang Yahoo! I just finished this really long post and clicked Send
> only to have it give me a Page Not Found and drop the whole thing!
>
> So here we go again, in truncated fashion:
>
> Some things to remember when voting:
>
> 1) Where you vote on which titles to use: Vote for three and only
> three.
>
> 2) Think of them as a group. Ex. Presently, Romance has 3 main
> Elf/Man unions. If that's to change, make the three new titles
> compatible with each other, such as the main unions in LOTR.
>
> 3) Where there are three or less suggestions, vote for the order.
>
> 4) If a suggestion doesn't appear under a category, it may be that

it

> was suggested for a category with only three suggestions,

therefore,

> it's guaranteed a spot there. There can be no duplicates.
>
> 5) There can be no ties. Ties will be broken in a run-off. If still
> tied, it may come down to a coin toss.
>
> 6) Do not vote for more than three titles. If you do, all your

votes

> for that category will be disqualified.
>
> 7) Vote! Don't let a few members decide everything for the many
> members.
>
> --Ainaechoiriel

Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
MEFAwards group:

Elves Awards titles. Choose three, one
for each place. Think of the three as a
group, compatible titles. Only three!
If you choose more than three, all your
votes may be disqualified.

o The Galadriel Award
o The Elrond Half-Elven Award
o The Cirdan Award
o 1st: Keep 2004 Title: Lothlorien
o 2nd: Keep 2004 Title: Imladris
o 3rd: Keep 2004 Title: Grey Havens
o No opinion on any


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/surveys?id=1662524

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
MEFAwards group:

The Hobbit Awards titles. Choose three,
one for each place. Think of the three
as a group, compatible titles. Only
three! If you choose more than three,
all your votes may be disqualified.

o The Smaug Award
o The Laketown Award
o The Beorn's House Award
o The Misty Mountains Award
o Keep 2004 Title: The Shire Award
o Keep 2004 Title: The Mirkwood Award
o Keep 2004 Title: The Lonely Mountain Award
o No opinion on any


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/surveys?id=1662527

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
MEFAwards group:

Hobbits Awards titles. Choose the
order. No new suggestions were given.
Master is Master of Buckland, Mayor is
Mayor or Hobbiton, Thain is Thain of
the Great Smials.

o Thain, Master, Mayor
o Thain, Mayor, Master
o Master, Thain, Mayor
o Master, Mayor, Thain
o Mayor, Thain, Master
o Mayor, Master, Thain
o No opinion


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/surveys?id=1662534

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
MEFAwards group:

Cross-Cultural Awards titles. Choose
three, one for each place. Think of the
three as a group, compatible titles.
Only three! If you choose more than
three, all your votes may be
disqualified.

o The Legolas and Gimli Award
o The Gandalf and Biblo Award
o The Merry and Eowyn Award
o The Thingol and Melian Award
o The Beren and Luthien Award
o No opinion on any


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/surveys?id=1662536

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
MEFAwards group:

Humor Awards titles. Choose three, one
for each place. Think of the three as a
group, compatible titles. Only three!
If you choose more than three, all your
votes may be disqualified.

o The Merry and Pippin award
o The Ents of Fangorn Award
o The Gimli, son of Gloin Award
o Keep 2004 Title: Tom Bombadil
o Keep 2004 Title: Bilbo Baggins
o Keep 2004: Barliman Butterbur Award
o No opinion on any


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/surveys?id=1662539

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
MEFAwards group:

Romance Awards titles. Choose three,
one for each place. Think of the three
as a group, compatible titles. Only
three! If you choose more than three,
all your votes may be disqualified.

o Keep 2004 Title: Aragorn and Arwen
o Keep 2004 Title: Luthien and Beren
o Keep 2004 Title: Tuor and Idril
o The Faramir and Eowyn Award
o The Sam and Rosie Award
o The Thingol and Melian Award
o No opinion on any


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/surveys?id=1662552

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
MEFAwards group:

Mystery Awards titles. Choose three,
one for each place. Think of the three
as a group, compatible titles. Only
three! If you choose more than three,
all your votes may be disqualified.

o The Dead Marshes Award
o The Entwives Award
o The Palantir Award
o Keep 2004 Title: Shadows of Cuivienen
o Keep 2004 Title: Barrow-Wights
o Keep 2004 Title: Pukel-Men
o No opinion on any


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/surveys?id=1662557

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
MEFAwards group:

Crossover Awards titles. Choose three,
one for each place. Think of the three
as a group, compatible titles. Only
three! If you choose more than three,
all your votes may be disqualified.

o The Troy Award
o The X-Men Award
o The Van Helsing Award
o The Moulin Rouge Award
o The Kingdom of Heaven Award
o The National Treasure Award
o The Master and Commander Award
o Keep 2004 Title: Hidalgo
o Keep 2004 Title: Pirates of the Caribbean
o Keep 2004 Title: Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade
o No opinion on any


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/surveys?id=1662562

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
MEFAwards group:

Alternate Universe Awards titles.
Choose three, one for each place. Think
of the three as a group, compatible
titles. Only three! If you choose more
than three, all your votes may be
disqualified.

o The Boromir Lives Award
o The Faramir Goes to Rivendell Award
o The Frodo Dies in Mordor Award
o The Tenth Walker Award
o No opinion on any


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/surveys?id=1662564

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
MEFAwards group:

Movie-Verse Awards titles. Choose
three, one for each place. Think of the
three as a group, compatible titles.
Only three! If you choose more than
three, all your votes may be
disqualified. (FOTR, TTT, and ROTK
noted just to help remember which part
the titles are in. They won't remain
part of the titles.)

o The Arwen Steals Asfaloth Award (FOTR)
o The "Let's Skip the Old Forest" Award (FOTR)
o The Elves at Helm's Deep Award (TTT)
o The Evil!Faramir Award (TTT)
o The Aragorn Dies Award (TTT)
o The Denethor's Missing Palantir Award (ROTK)
o The Retaking of Osgiliath Award (ROTK)
o The "Go Home, Sam" Award (ROTK)
o The Legolas vs. the Mumak Award (ROTK)
o The Arwen Dies Award (ROTK)
o The Merry at the Black Gate Award (ROTK)
o The Scouring? What Scouring? Award (ROTK)
o The Disappearance of the Grey Company Award (ROTK)
o The What Happened to Halbarad Award (ROTK)
o The Arwen at the Fords Award (FOTR)
o The Going to Osgiliath Award (TTT)
o The Osgiliath is Overrun Award (ROTK)
o No opinion on any


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/surveys?id=1662573

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
MEFAwards group:

Non-Fiction Awards titles. Choose
three, one for each place. Think of the
three as a group, compatible titles.
Only three! If you choose more than
three, all your votes may be
disqualified.

o The Red Book of Westmarch Award
o The Translations from The Elvish Award
o The There and Back Again Award
o The Library of Imladris Award
o The Scrolls of Orthanc Award
o The Archives of Minas Tirith Award
o No opinion on any


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/surveys?id=1662580

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
MEFAwards group:

Post-Ring War. This one will be a
little different. All the suggestions
were suggested with groups of 3. So you
will vote on the group. Choose only
one.

o Places: Shire, Fangorn, Druedain Forest
o Elves that stayed into the Fourth Age (Celeborn, Legolas, Elladan and Elrohir
o Areas that saw peace in the Fourth Age: Ithilien, Mordor, Breeland
o Sons of Aragorn, Faramir, and Eomer: Eldarion, Elboron, Elfwine
o No opinion


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/surveys?id=1662584

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
MEFAwards group:

Drama: one suggestion. Vote for it to
replace one of the 2004 titles, or vote
Don't change or No opinion. Vote only
once.

o Replace Turin Turambar with Faramir
o Replace Frodo Baggins with Faramir
o Replace Nimrodel and Amroth with Faramir
o Keep 2004 titles
o No opinion


To vote, please visit the following web page:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/surveys?id=1662594

Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
web site listed above.

Thanks!

Very sorry to hear this. It looked really good, and easy to use.



--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Holder <aaholder@s...>
wrote:

> Due to technical difficulties, the Demo website is offline and will
> remain so indefinitely.
> > Thanks,
> Anthony

*whew* I think I got them all ....

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com wrote:
>
>
> Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
> MEFAwards group:
>
> Drama: one suggestion. Vote for it to
> replace one of the 2004 titles, or vote
> Don't change or No opinion. Vote only
> once.
>
> o Replace Turin Turambar with Faramir
> o Replace Frodo Baggins with Faramir
> o Replace Nimrodel and Amroth with Faramir
> o Keep 2004 titles
> o No opinion
>
>
> To vote, please visit the following web page:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/surveys?id=1662594
>
> Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
> not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
> web site listed above.
>
> Thanks!

Hi Ainaechoiriel,

why are there two Hobbit Award Title Polls ?

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/surveys?id=1662527

(15 votes now)
and

> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/surveys?id=1662534

(6 votes now)

Probably the first one is not for Hobbits ?
But for what it is ?
Or it is a special Hobbit Award ?

As the first poll has already 15 votes,
the other voters seem to have understood.
Nevertheless I do not, sorry.

Best wishes from Elanor
who feels befuddled

> The Hobbit Awards titles. Choose three,
> one for each place. Think of the three
> as a group, compatible titles. Only
> three! If you choose more than three,
> all your votes may be disqualified.
>
> o The Smaug Award
> o The Laketown Award
> o The Beorn's House Award
> o The Misty Mountains Award
> o Keep 2004 Title: The Shire Award
> o Keep 2004 Title: The Mirkwood Award
> o Keep 2004 Title: The Lonely Mountain Award
> o No opinion on any
>
>
> To vote, please visit the following web page:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/surveys?id=1662527
>

> Hobbits Awards titles. Choose the
> order. No new suggestions were given.
> Master is Master of Buckland, Mayor is
> Mayor or Hobbiton, Thain is Thain of
> the Great Smials.
>
> o Thain, Master, Mayor
> o Thain, Mayor, Master
> o Master, Thain, Mayor
> o Master, Mayor, Thain
> o Mayor, Thain, Master
> o Mayor, Master, Thain
> o No opinion
>
>
> To vote, please visit the following web page:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/surveys?id=1662534
>

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "elanor of aquitania" <elanor@c...>
wrote:

> Hi Ainaechoiriel,
>
> why are there two Hobbit Award Title Polls ?

Hi Elanaor,

> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/surveys?id=1662527
> (15 votes now)

This is for _The Hobbit_, as in the prequel to _Lord of the Rings_.

> and
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/surveys?id=1662534
> (6 votes now)
>

And this is for stories focusing on Hobbits. As in the race, not the
book.

Hope that clears it up.
Marta

Done. Thanks for all your hard work.

Antoinette

> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/surveys?id=1662527
> > (15 votes now)
>
> This is for _The Hobbit_, as in the prequel to _Lord of the Rings_.
>
> > and
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/surveys?id=1662534
> > (6 votes now)
> >
>
> And this is for stories focusing on Hobbits. As in the race, not the
> book.
>
> Hope that clears it up.
> Marta

Thank you Marta,
yes, this clears it up.

It is a long time since I read "The Hobbit" ;-)
Unfortunately, I do not like it very much,
but I will read it in near future to my son.

Many thanks Elanor :-)

> 7) Vote! Don't let a few members decide everything for the many
> members.
>
> --Ainaechoiriel
>

I'm through also :-)
Thanks to Marta for clearing up "The Hobbit" :-)

And most especially
many thanks to you Ainaechoiriel
for running these MEFAwards
with so much dedication

Thanks, Marta. Sorry for the confusion all!

Have fun voting!

--Ainaechoiriel

MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards

Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: elanor of aquitania [mailto:elanor@codacode.net]
> Sent: Friday, February 18, 2005 4:50 PM
> To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Thank you: ? Hobbit Award Titles (was: [MEFAwards]
> New poll for MEFAwards)
>
>
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/surveys?id=1662527
> > > (15 votes now)
> >
> > This is for _The Hobbit_, as in the prequel to _Lord of the Rings_.
> >
> > > and
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/MEFAwards/surveys?id=1662534
> > > (6 votes now)
> > >
> >
> > And this is for stories focusing on Hobbits. As in the
> race, not the
> > book.
> >
> > Hope that clears it up.
> > Marta
>
> Thank you Marta,
> yes, this clears it up.
>
> It is a long time since I read "The Hobbit" ;-)
> Unfortunately, I do not like it very much, but I will read it
> in near future to my son.
>
> Many thanks Elanor :-)
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do
> not own computers.
> At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/S.QlOD/3MnJAA/Zx0JAA/wx3olB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ------~->
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

OT:I just wanted to apologize for not putting the "OT:" on my reply
and I read the thing about the OT: after I sent the reply,
sorry!!!!
-Willow(ford_darla)

No problem. Welcome to the group. We're finishing up the post-mortem for
the 2004 year and preps for the 2005 year which will start on April 1st. If
you haven't already, head to the Polls and vote on which awards titles you'd
like for the categories listed.

--Ainaechoiriel

MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards

Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Breann [mailto:ford_darla@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 12:59 AM
> To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [MEFAwards] OT:
>
>
>
> OT:I just wanted to apologize for not putting the "OT:" on my
> reply and I read the thing about the OT: after I sent the
> reply, sorry!!!!
> -Willow(ford_darla)
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> --------------------~--> Has someone you know been affected
> by illness or disease?
> Network for Good is THE place to support health awareness efforts!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/rkgkPB/UOnJAA/Zx0JAA/wx3olB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ------~->
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 10:02:57 -0600
> From: "Ainaechoiriel" <mefaadmin@earthlink.net>
> Subject: RE: OT:
>
> No problem. Welcome to the group. We're finishing up the post-mortem for
> the 2004 year and preps for the 2005 year which will start on April 1st. If
> you haven't already, head to the Polls and vote on which awards titles you'd
> like for the categories listed.
>

Hi Ainae,

I thought the awards were going to open on March 1st this year? April
1st is okay, too, but did I miss the announcement? Or am I just
confused?

Marta
--
"Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."

Yay! We're getting a lot of votes. But there are some ties forming,
which means we need new voters! Come on over to the YahooGroup site,
click Polls on the bar on the left and enter your votes.

Also, just so you know, the top three vote winners MAY not be the
awards titles in the end? Why not? Because we'll have to weigh them
against not having duplicates, forming a group, etc.

So for example, if Balrog wins in two polls, it can only be used in
one. (That's just an example. I can't remember IF it's even in two
polls.)

Also, say two Dwarf names and one Dwarf place wins, we'll more likely
go with the names, and replace the Dwarf place winner with the third
highest Dwarf name.

I now return you to your voting.

Thanks.

--Ainaechoiriel

No, April 1st. One month early. Last year they opened on May 1st.

So Nomination Season begins on April Fools Day. (No April Fools'
nominations, okay?)

--Ainaechoiriel

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, Marta Layton <melayton@g...> wrote:
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 10:02:57 -0600
> > From: "Ainaechoiriel" <mefaadmin@e...>
> > Subject: RE: OT:
> >
> > No problem. Welcome to the group. We're finishing up the post-
mortem for
> > the 2004 year and preps for the 2005 year which will start on
April 1st. If
> > you haven't already, head to the Polls and vote on which awards
titles you'd
> > like for the categories listed.
> >
>
> Hi Ainae,
>
> I thought the awards were going to open on March 1st this year?
April
> 1st is okay, too, but did I miss the announcement? Or am I just
> confused?
>
> Marta
> --
> "Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."

--- In MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com, "ainaechoiriel" <mefaadmin@e...> wrote:

>
>
> No, April 1st. One month early. Last year they opened on May 1st.
>
> So Nomination Season begins on April Fools Day. (No April Fools'
> nominations, okay?)
>

Okay, I understand now. I was under the (apparently mistaken) idea that last year's awards
started 4/1. My mistake.

Thanks for clearing it up,
Marta

In a message dated 2/21/2005 10:29:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,
MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com writes:
We're finishing up the post-mortem for
the 2004 year and preps for the 2005 year which will start on April 1st.
Really? That soon? Yikes how the time is flying by.

Sorry I've been so absent.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It strikes me as odd that you banned the religion toppic. I want to
find out how far that ban streatches, because it is well known that
many of the Themes used in Tolkien's work come from religion,
particularly the Christian Bible. I hope you don't mean to ban talk
of religion as it appiels to the work of Tolkien. For example

The fall of Adam and Eve that can aply to:

The rebellion of the Noldor
or the sinking of Nemennor

It's not a one to one anaglogy, but Morgoth and Satan have a lot in
common. Both were fallen servents of the creator God, both were known
as decievers, morgoth incited the Noldor to rebllion Satan tempted
Adam and Eve to eat the forbbiden fruit

Movie-Verse Awards titles. Choose three, one for each place. Think of
the three as a group, compatible titles. Only three! If you choose
more than three, all your votes may be disqualified. (FOTR, TTT, and
ROTK noted just to help remember which part the titles are in. They
won't remain part of the titles.)

The "Let's Skip the Old Forest" Award (FOTR)
The Elves at Helm's Deep Award (TTT)
The Evil!Faramir Award (TTT)
The Arwen Steals Asfaloth Award (FOTR)
The Aragorn Dies Award (TTT)
The Denethor's Missing Palantir Award (ROTK)
The Retaking of Osgiliath Award (ROTK)
The "Go Home, Sam" Award (ROTK)
The Legolas vs. the Mumak Award (ROTK)
The Arwen Dies Award (ROTK)
The Merry at the Black Gate Award (ROTK)
The Scouring? What Scouring? Award (ROTK)
The Disappearance of the Grey Company Award (ROTK)
The What Happened to Halbarad Award (ROTK)
The Arwen at the Fords Award (FOTR)
The Going to Osgiliath Award (TTT)
The Osgiliath is Overrun Award (ROTK)


The titles are so good, I think we should have them all!

You weren't here in the early days. There were some toes stepped on and
this really isn't the place for it. Yes, I know that Tolkien was a
Christian and I know there are some similarities in the stories between
Morgoth and Satan, etc. But we don't want this to be a place for arguments
and insults. Take a look at the mission and charter (on the web site and in
the Files section of the Yahoo site). We're here to discuss fanfiction and
the awards. Anything lese must really be marked OT. I'm not a terrible
stickler when it comes to OT, but I do not like arguments and flame wars.
Thus some incendiary topics became out of bounds. This is one of them.
There are other places to discuss it. This just isn't one of them.

--Ainaechoiriel

MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards

Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: elfqueen2003 [mailto:elfqueen2003@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 8:03 PM
> To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [MEFAwards] irony
>
>
>
> It strikes me as odd that you banned the religion toppic. I
> want to find out how far that ban streatches, because it is
> well known that many of the Themes used in Tolkien's work
> come from religion, particularly the Christian Bible. I hope
> you don't mean to ban talk of religion as it appiels to the
> work of Tolkien. For example
>
> The fall of Adam and Eve that can aply to:
>
> The rebellion of the Noldor
> or the sinking of Nemennor
>
> It's not a one to one anaglogy, but Morgoth and Satan have a
> lot in common. Both were fallen servents of the creator God,
> both were known as decievers, morgoth incited the Noldor to
> rebllion Satan tempted Adam and Eve to eat the forbbiden fruit
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> --------------------~--> What would our lives be like without
> music, dance, and theater?
> Donate or volunteer in the arts today at Network for Good!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/pkgkPB/SOnJAA/Zx0JAA/wx3olB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ------~->
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Yeah, we had fun coming up with those!

But still, we can only have three.....

Glad to see you're voting!

--Ainaechoiriel

MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards

Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: elfqueen2003 [mailto:elfqueen2003@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 8:22 PM
> To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [MEFAwards] movievers awards
>
>
>
>
> Movie-Verse Awards titles. Choose three, one for each place.
> Think of the three as a group, compatible titles. Only three!
> If you choose more than three, all your votes may be
> disqualified. (FOTR, TTT, and ROTK noted just to help
> remember which part the titles are in. They won't remain part
> of the titles.)
>
> The "Let's Skip the Old Forest" Award (FOTR)
> The Elves at Helm's Deep Award (TTT)
> The Evil!Faramir Award (TTT)
> The Arwen Steals Asfaloth Award (FOTR)
> The Aragorn Dies Award (TTT)
> The Denethor's Missing Palantir Award (ROTK)
> The Retaking of Osgiliath Award (ROTK)
> The "Go Home, Sam" Award (ROTK)
> The Legolas vs. the Mumak Award (ROTK)
> The Arwen Dies Award (ROTK)
> The Merry at the Black Gate Award (ROTK)
> The Scouring? What Scouring? Award (ROTK)
> The Disappearance of the Grey Company Award (ROTK)
> The What Happened to Halbarad Award (ROTK)
> The Arwen at the Fords Award (FOTR)
> The Going to Osgiliath Award (TTT)
> The Osgiliath is Overrun Award (ROTK)
>
>
> The titles are so good, I think we should have them all!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> --------------------~--> In low income neighborhoods, 84% do
> not own computers.
> At Network for Good, help bridge the Digital Divide!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/S.QlOD/3MnJAA/Zx0JAA/wx3olB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> ------~->
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 16:37:40 -0600, Ainaechoiriel
<mefaadmin@earthlink.net> wrote:

> You weren't here in the early days. There were some toes stepped on and
> this really isn't the place for it. Yes, I know that Tolkien was a
> Christian and I know there are some similarities in the stories between
> Morgoth and Satan, etc. But we don't want this to be a place for arguments
> and insults. Take a look at the mission and charter (on the web site and
> in
> the Files section of the Yahoo site). We're here to discuss fanfiction and
> the awards. Anything lese must really be marked OT. I'm not a terrible
> stickler when it comes to OT, but I do not like arguments and flame wars.
> Thus some incendiary topics became out of bounds. This is one of them.
> There are other places to discuss it. This just isn't one of them.
>
> --Ainaechoiriel
>

Ainae,

Can I just clarify?

1. Obviously, general discussion of real-world religion is out? I can
completely understand that, and have a hard time seeing where it would
come up anyway.

2. Discussion of "values", while not tied to a particular religion,
often have strong religious undertones. I remember some of this coming
up when I suggested we allow NC17 stories; some people said they
didn't want them, and giving their reason as in part religious. I
didn't have a problem with this. I think the key here is mutual
respect. If someone says they feel a certain way because of a
religious feeling, we should definitely avoid questioning the validity
of that religious belief (which I think everyone has done so far). But
to say you can't mention religion at all in this context -- well, it
would be awkward, and IMO slightly disrespectful to the religious
among us, myself included. I'm not sure I could contribute in good
faith if religion was completely taboo. So I think people should be
able to mention religion as a way of explaining why they feel a
certain way, without feeling like this completely obligates the rest
of us; if we decide to do a certain thing it will be because it's
what's best for the awards and represents the wants and needs of the
majority of those involved.

3. General discussion of spirituality in Tolkien: I can't see where
this would come up. I also wouldn't expect us to discuss other hot
topics, everything from Tolkien's politics to whether Balrogs have
wings. It's just not that kind of list.

4. Discussion of the spirituality of a particular story - There are
some stories where some religious or spiritual truth (not always
native to M-e! We all have a tendency to imprint M-e with our own
views, including our religion). I think a good review could comment on
this, depending on how the story puts the religious material to use.
For example, in Dwim's piece "Not in Our Stars" she quotes St. Paul,
perhaps in a rather un-orthodox context but it's there nonetheless. If
I were to review this story I'd probably comment on this aspect,
because it's one of the ones that I found most moving. I'd have a
major problem if we outlawed this kind of comment, because I think it
is a large part of a lot of stories. But I don't think we need to have
continued discussion of these comments; we don't have continued
discussion of *any* review comments, unless it's breaking one of the
awards rules (i.e., posted outside the award period, or with too long
of quotes, or whatever). So I don't think we'll have this problem
anyway.

Ainae, am I correct in my assumptions here? I'm just trying to figure
out what I can and can't do.

Marta
--
"Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."

I'll say, right now, that what I don't want is debate on this issue. Why?
Because I don't want a repeat of the ugliness from before. Now, onto
Marta's clarification.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Marta Layton [mailto:melayton@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 6:21 PM
> To: MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [MEFAwards] irony


> Ainae,
>
> Can I just clarify?
>
> 1. Obviously, general discussion of real-world religion is
> out? I can completely understand that, and have a hard time
> seeing where it would come up anyway.

Yes. Because the Tolkien fandom is a very diverse one. And, as I said,
there are other places for that discussion. It doesn't have to happen here.

> 2. Discussion of "values", while not tied to a particular
> religion, often have strong religious undertones. I remember
> some of this coming up when I suggested we allow NC17
> stories; some people said they didn't want them, and giving
> their reason as in part religious. I didn't have a problem
> with this. I think the key here is mutual respect. If someone
> says they feel a certain way because of a religious feeling,
> we should definitely avoid questioning the validity of that
> religious belief (which I think everyone has done so far).
> But to say you can't mention religion at all in this context
> -- well, it would be awkward, and IMO slightly disrespectful
> to the religious among us, myself included. I'm not sure I
> could contribute in good faith if religion was completely
> taboo. So I think people should be able to mention religion
> as a way of explaining why they feel a certain way, without
> feeling like this completely obligates the rest of us; if we
> decide to do a certain thing it will be because it's what's
> best for the awards and represents the wants and needs of the
> majority of those involved.

Honestly, I can't understand whether you are saying this is allowed or not
allowed. I say not, because that is exactly what started that fireball
rolling the last time. As for NC-17, I am a Christian, too, but that's not
why they aren't allowed. They arent' allowed here for the same reason they
aren't allowed at fanfiction.net. This is not and Adult group so it has to
be be free and clear for people under 18 to read everything here. That is
why.

> 3. General discussion of spirituality in Tolkien: I can't see
> where this would come up. I also wouldn't expect us to
> discuss other hot topics, everything from Tolkien's politics
> to whether Balrogs have wings. It's just not that kind of list.

Exactly. I wouldn't call it out of bounds so much as "it doesn't neede to
happen here". Take it somewhere else. This group isn't about a general
discussion of Tolkien or his spirituality. It's about awards for fanfiction
based on his writings involving the fictional setting of Middle-Earth.

> 4. Discussion of the spirituality of a particular story -
> There are some stories where some religious or spiritual
> truth (not always native to M-e! We all have a tendency to
> imprint M-e with our own views, including our religion). I
> think a good review could comment on this, depending on how
> the story puts the religious material to use.
> For example, in Dwim's piece "Not in Our Stars" she quotes
> St. Paul, perhaps in a rather un-orthodox context but it's
> there nonetheless. If I were to review this story I'd
> probably comment on this aspect, because it's one of the ones
> that I found most moving. I'd have a major problem if we
> outlawed this kind of comment, because I think it is a large
> part of a lot of stories. But I don't think we need to have
> continued discussion of these comments; we don't have
> continued discussion of *any* review comments, unless it's
> breaking one of the awards rules (i.e., posted outside the
> award period, or with too long of quotes, or whatever). So I
> don't think we'll have this problem anyway.

This is fine. If religion is part of the story and part of your comment,
there's not a problem with it.

> Ainae, am I correct in my assumptions here? I'm just trying
> to figure out what I can and can't do.

In what I understand of it. Yes.

Now, can we please move on?

--Ainaechoiriel

MEFA Admin and Founder

"This evil cannot be concealed by the power of the Elves," Elrond said, "for
it is Windows-compatible, and freeware at that." --H.F.

http://gabrielle.sytes.net/mefa The Middle-Earth Fanfiction Awards

Blog: http://www.ainaechoiriel.blogspot.com

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 20:12:29 -0600, Ainaechoiriel
<mefaadmin@earthlink.net> wrote:

> I'll say, right now, that what I don't want is debate on this issue. Why?
> Because I don't want a repeat of the ugliness from before. Now, onto
> Marta's clarification.
>

I don't want a repeat of the uginess, either. That's why I want
clarification; to know just what this group's stand is so I can act
accordingly.

<snip>

> > 1. Obviously, general discussion of real-world religion is
> > out? I can completely understand that, and have a hard time
> > seeing where it would come up anyway.
>
> Yes. Because the Tolkien fandom is a very diverse one. And, as I said,
> there are other places for that discussion. It doesn't have to happen here.

I agree absolutely.

> > 2. Discussion of "values", while not tied to a particular
> > religion, often have strong religious undertones. I remember
> > some of this coming up when I suggested we allow NC17
> > stories; some people said they didn't want them, and giving
> > their reason as in part religious. I didn't have a problem
> > with this. I think the key here is mutual respect. If someone
> > says they feel a certain way because of a religious feeling,
> > we should definitely avoid questioning the validity of that
> > religious belief (which I think everyone has done so far).
> > But to say you can't mention religion at all in this context
> > -- well, it would be awkward, and IMO slightly disrespectful
> > to the religious among us, myself included. I'm not sure I
> > could contribute in good faith if religion was completely
> > taboo. So I think people should be able to mention religion
> > as a way of explaining why they feel a certain way, without
> > feeling like this completely obligates the rest of us; if we
> > decide to do a certain thing it will be because it's what's
> > best for the awards and represents the wants and needs of the
> > majority of those involved.
>
> Honestly, I can't understand whether you are saying this is allowed or not
> allowed. I say not, because that is exactly what started that fireball
> rolling the last time. As for NC-17, I am a Christian, too, but that's not
> why they aren't allowed. They arent' allowed here for the same reason they
> aren't allowed at fanfiction.net. This is not and Adult group so it has to
> be be free and clear for people under 18 to read everything here. That is
> why.
>

Sorry, let me try to clarify. Let's take the NC-17 example.

Say someone proposes that we allow NC-17 stories. People might post in
about whether they are in favor or against allowing NC-17 stories to
compete. Someone might say something like:

"I don't want NC-17 stories to compete because they conflict with my
religious beliefs, and I'd rather not have my stories compete against
them."

This hypothetical person has expressed a personal opinion and has
mentioned their religion. As far as I'm concerned, that's fine, but
there are several things that aren't fine from this point:

* Debating the theological point. A second person shouldn't reply
saying that NC-17 material shouldn't conflict with the original
poster's religious beliefs.

* The original poster's statement shouldn't be given more (or less)
consideration because they happen to be religious. It's just a
strongly held opinion, no more or less valid than someone else's
strongly held opinion.

Basically, I think a person should be able to mention that they
disagree with something and give their reason for disagreeing. If
their reason derives from their religion, that's fine. But I don't
think we have to debate the validity of that opinion, and we certainly
shouldn't base policy decisions just on what a certain religion says.
Like you said, we don't allow NC17 material, but that's not just
because you or anyone else is religious; there are lots of factors.

Is that any clearer?

> > 3. General discussion of spirituality in Tolkien: I can't see
> > where this would come up. I also wouldn't expect us to
> > discuss other hot topics, everything from Tolkien's politics
> > to whether Balrogs have wings. It's just not that kind of list.
>
> Exactly. I wouldn't call it out of bounds so much as "it doesn't neede to
> happen here". Take it somewhere else. This group isn't about a general
> discussion of Tolkien or his spirituality. It's about awards for
> fanfiction
> based on his writings involving the fictional setting of Middle-Earth.
>

Right, that's exactly the point I was trying to make.

> > 4. Discussion of the spirituality of a particular story -
> > There are some stories where some religious or spiritual
> > truth (not always native to M-e! We all have a tendency to
> > imprint M-e with our own views, including our religion). I
> > think a good review could comment on this, depending on how
> > the story puts the religious material to use.
> > For example, in Dwim's piece "Not in Our Stars" she quotes
> > St. Paul, perhaps in a rather un-orthodox context but it's
> > there nonetheless. If I were to review this story I'd
> > probably comment on this aspect, because it's one of the ones
> > that I found most moving. I'd have a major problem if we
> > outlawed this kind of comment, because I think it is a large
> > part of a lot of stories. But I don't think we need to have
> > continued discussion of these comments; we don't have
> > continued discussion of *any* review comments, unless it's
> > breaking one of the awards rules (i.e., posted outside the
> > award period, or with too long of quotes, or whatever). So I
> > don't think we'll have this problem anyway.
>
> This is fine. If religion is part of the story and part of your comment,
> there's not a problem with it.
>

Okay, thanks. I just wanted to check and make sure.

> > Ainae, am I correct in my assumptions here? I'm just trying
> > to figure out what I can and can't do.
>
> In what I understand of it. Yes.
>

Thanks. I'm sorry I wasn't clear before.

> Now, can we please move on?
>

Sure. You don't have to even answer this post publicly, or at all, if
you don't want to. I just like to make sure I understand the situation
as best I can. I'm not trying to be contentious, and I don't think
this needs to be a sticking point.

Marta
--
"Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."

In a message dated 2/25/2005 7:37:43 PM Pacific Standard Time,
MEFAwards@yahoogroups.com writes:
The titles are so good, I think we should have them all!
Indeed. The Merry at the Black Gate Award... ought to be Merry (Unhealed) at
the Black Gate Award. Get two for the price of one (where oh where was Merry's
healing after the Pelennor? And pardon me if I misspelt that, I have one eye
half open and the other still dreaming it is back where I left the pillow.

And I have a subtitle for the The Going to Osgiliath Award (TTT), a quote
directly out of that scene: "We're not even supposed to be here at all!" (or
something to that effect. I always snort when I hear that line.

Lin


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]